Nobles' Club 195 - Asoka of India

[Pedro78]

The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Asoka of India, whom we last played in NC CXLVII. India starts with Mysticism and Mining.

• Traits : Asoka is Organized and Spiritual
• The UB: the Mausoleum, a Jail with an additional 2 happiness

• The UU: the Fast Worker, a Worker with an extra movement point

And the start :

Spoiler map details :

Earth2. Basically a Terra map shaped like Earth.

Spoiler edits :

None.

Finally, a cut and paste of our standard doctrine:

There are no hard and fast rules here. Fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do suggest that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards. You can post as often as you like; here's one suggestion:

• 4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
• 1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, where you're thinking of putting cities, etc)
• 500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
• 1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didn't, met other
• continent if applicable, etc)
• 1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
• End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)

The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 195 Asoka Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :

In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Prince. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

For players on Monarch or above, you should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:

Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
6. Exit the worldbuilder.
7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.

Spoiler huts and events :

Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.

 

[Pedro78]

As most people here play without huts or events, here are the Monarch and above starting saves with barb techs added. These can be opened without any mod.
Also created a "Light Deity" save, which is a deity difficulty game where the AI has Immortal starting units (one less archer and settler), for those who to play at a level right between IMM and Deity.
I'd say the overall map difficulty is slightly above average.

Have fun


Oh and just a little challenge:

Spoiler :

Who can tell which starting locations were swapped and why?

 

[dutchfire]

At least there's plenty of chopping to do for our UU. Looks like a capital with plenty of decent tiles, but only the corn is really great.

Can I be a sinner and suggest to build Maoi in the capital?

 

[Framesticker]

So many games, so little time...
Signing in, playing this tonight

 

[Pedro78]

Can I be a sinner and suggest to build Maoi in the capital?

It's maybe a bit early to make a decision?

 

[SittinDown]

Played the light-deity version to T-52.

Spoiler T-52 :

• Playing too fast.
• Somehow only have 2 cities, and 1 settler out.
• Decided to worker-steal on the Khmer. He counter-attacked with archers but lost.
• About to settle 2nd gold city.
• Want to get the pigs settled soon, the sugar, and possibly head north to grab the ivory, but I think someone else will get there first.
• Tech order was BW -> Agi -> Wheel -> AH -> Pottery. (This was bad. I should have done Ag -> BW -> Wheel -> Pottery -> ...maybe AH. I thought I'd settle that pig site sooner than I did).
• At least I have a decent chunk of land for myself but this seems pretty slow and sloppy.

 

[Pedro78]

@SittinDown

Spoiler :

I think your tech order was good -- you don't need early Pottery here as you have a gold mine. However, why are you building farms instead of chopping? I think that's your main mistake. Delhi already has a big food surplus so it doesn't need those, and at this point you could have 3 cities with the 4th one following quickly.

 

[Olafeson]

Start is not easy, mysticism and coast without fishing and seafood is awkward, but nice 3 2 laketiles with cheap lighthouses (ORG).
Kind of sad that there is no seafood, probably gonna do smth like

Agri -> BW (hope for copper) -> Fishing -> Sailing -> Masonry

trying for great Lighthouse if we not get boxed in by surrounding A.I.

Hopefully we have some copper or you might need to squeeze in archery just to be save from the barbs.

Anyway thank you for the map @Pedro78 and will probably start the map this evening.

 

[ArchGhost]

Ooh, I like Asoka on unknown maps, his generalistic perks work anywhere.. Will be trying on Immortal.

Will probably move the warrior 1SE on that hill to look around, idea is to settle on the south Spice unless there's nothing else of interest over there at all -- it still has a coastal connection for a lighthouse, appears to gain a lake to replace the lost northern one (not FIN though so it's not a huge deal anyway even if it is a coast), keeps the hills and loses some forest but opens up some space to share corn from a spot north of lakes which is the biggest reason I want to do it.

Oh and just a little challenge:

Spoiler :

Who can tell which starting locations were swapped and why?

Spoiler :

Us and Sury so he'd be a target for HA rush? Or just me wishfully thinking that to make myself feel better since i managed to move off the BFC horses? #ouch

 

[Snowbird]

I would consider 2E1N for settling... (pity that west can't be checked by warrior). More inland and chance to catch something in third ring (typically there is a resource or two). Obvious risk is missing some resources westwards (but with corn and 2xspice being there already I think chance of something else being in there is not too high)...

 

[Olafeson]

T56 Deity No Huts/No Events

Spoiler :

Got 3 good cities but really hurting for workers now. AS i noticed that the map is a pangeae i did not try for the Great Lighthouse and took AH instead because of the pigs. Looks like we found horses and will probably just HA Rush the Khmer. Probabaly one more city to the west with the cows and the copper.

Agri -> BW -> Fishing -> Sailing - > AH -> Wheel -> Pottery

Then not quite sure, probabaly smth like :

Writing -> HR -> Hunting -> Archery

Will be quite late HA Rush, and i probabaly want writing and scout out the Khmer before i attack, could also settle in the west maybe with IW.
Until now Sury has only chariots as his best unit. So no metal yet. Could also build one Library and maybe bulb math for better chops.

 

[Olafeson]

T56 Deity No Huts/no events

Spoiler :

Unfortuantely diplo is a mess. Everyone is lovey-dovey. Well maybe Shaka and catherine etc. will start wars when they run out of land to settle. I am crossing my fingers for it.

 

[Pedro78]

@ArchGhost nope, you've got this one totally wrong

pity that west can't be checked by warrior

Yup the warrior popped in a really bad position, but that's part of the game. But otoh you're only moving away from a single plains tile and already have plenty of food. Totally agree with the 2E1N settle.

@Olafeson

Spoiler :

HA rush looks like a good idea yup. Be careful about those AIs -- everyone of them can plot at pleased and most of them are very dangerous. Might be good to tech Archery before HBR in case things go south.

 

[dutchfire]

I opened the Immortal save, but the warrior was on a different starting location?

 

[ArchGhost]

^^
odd. I used the Immortal no huts save and didn't see anything amiss.


Immortal, 1555AD Conquest. Will update with more details after I've had some sleep.

Spoiler brief overview :

-settled off of horses in BFC by going on that spice, ack. Still got 7 cities, both gold spots, and the iron. Even took the copper +cow+wheat (was paranoid about Shaka without metal of my own) far west for a HE. Sharing corn with the pig to the north made for a killer NE spot
-jewish lovefest between all but Shaka and Ragnar. Quite handy with this group of rowdys.
-Sury stuck on his peninsula at 3 cities for most of the game, is dead meat or peace vassal for sure
-Marble everywhere! Handy source trade from Cathy to build NE and farmed 5+ GS with Pacifism in NE city + 2 others. Used it for Taj too.
-Ragnar picks a fight with Cathy. Bribes bring Shaka in too as well as jewish alliance so everybody likes me and hates ragnar.
-Lib MT 660AD
-Gunpowder 780AD
-trading around for Guilds + self-teching Chemistry, then farm + workshops + whip whip whip
-after some tricky diplo misdirects, attack and cap Sury in 3 turns starting at 1010AD
-chain cap everyone but Shaka, who resists from 13 all the way down to 3 cities. Managed to keep Rifling out of play which was cool.
-only one city of Qin's makes it to the new world

 

[SittinDown]

I had an oddity on the light-deity save, but I just went with it. Looked like the warrior might have been moved, then probably deleted via WB, then recreated. Close enough though - I'm not too picky on Nobles' Club.

 

[Pedro78]

I opened the Immortal save, but the warrior was on a different starting location?

Hmm that's weird. Maybe because I deleted the player unit lines in the WB saes, it spawns the starting warrior in a random location? Not sure how to solve this, sorry for the inconvenience.

@ArchGhost congrats on your win!

 

[Olafeson]

yup my warri was also 1 NW of the settler.

 

[dutchfire]

Anyway, I played until Machinery and retired

I initially had a bit too much of a builders mindset, given the crowd. Ragnar declared without ever showing up with troops, Mongolia sent some decent stacks my way but I could repel those attacks. Then Khmer joined the war and I decided to counterattack against them (with peace on the other fronts). That was going reasonably well, although my stack was too small to take the capital, and then Mongolia redeclared and I decided to retire since the front was too weak. (a bit annoying that this happened just before finishing Machinery, with one or two crossbows I might have held out easily.)
If I would play this again, I would really prioritize horse archers. Even though they're quite aggressive, most opponents still had two archer border cities during the war, so quick counterattacks can be very dangerous.

 

[Framesticker]

Well, this isn't going terribly well. Help!!!

Immortal/400BC or so

Spoiler :

The early game went rather well - I only realized this was an Earth map when I thought "hey, China being east of India is rather funny), so I went with all kinds of shenanigans:

Early game strat was pretty straightforward. Rush to claim border cities, tech up the Aesthetics for trade value. Ragnar and Cathy was going Buddhist so I went along for the ride, however Cathy soon switched for Judaism which leaves the religious situation problematic.

Here is the map in 800BC:

I decided settling the Nile cities is a major priority. Shaka was creeping up from the south and Ragnar and Cathy had captured Barbarian cities in the region (Ragnar had the gold city west of the Nile) and I really didn't want to border him, but there was probably no other way around it - north of India was either desert or settled.

Here you can see me settling rather crappily because Shaka had a Settler right there waiting to take a spot.

Anyway, Cathy beat me to the northern cow site so I'm on five cities with no real prospect of going for six. I found Iron though near Bombay, so I guess conquest is the way to go. Who do you recommend going against? Shaka is an obvious target so he doesn't kill me first, but it seems he's well far away and maintenance would kill me. Maybe Cathy? Or Sury?