Nobles' Club 248: Julius Caesar of the Romans

[AcaMetis]

The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Julius Caesar of Rome, whom we last played in NC 166; we last played the Romans under Augustus Caesar in NC 221. The Romans start with Fishing and Mining.

• Traits: Julius Caesar is Imperialistic and Organized. Imperialistic adds +100% to Great General generation and +50% bonus to Settler production. Note that excess directly converted to won't benefit from this bonus. Organized cuts Civic Upkeep in half, and gives a +100% bonus to Lighthouses, Courthouses and Factories.
  
• The UB: The Forum, a Market with +25% . A minor boost, which only few cities will truly benefit from, tied to an expensive building makes the Forum an overall underwhelming UB.
  
• The UU: The Praetorian, a Swordsman with a show-stopping 8, albeit at the cost of losing it's innate +10% City Attack and costing slightly more to produce (45 rather than 40 on Normal speed). Praetorians can also be upgraded directly into Rifles and Grenadiers, meaning they can be build until you've researched both Rifling and Military Science.

And the start:

Spoiler map details :

Fractal, Temperate Climate, Medium Sealevel.

Spoiler edits :

A few resource swaps were done to give AIs nearby strategic resources, and a Fish was moved from a one tile Mountain island to a place where it can actually be worked.

The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 248 Julius Caesar Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :

In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Prince. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

Spoiler for players on Monarch or above :

You should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:

Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
6. Exit the worldbuilder.
7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.

If you're playing at higher level than Monarch, consider also giving them Hunting at Emperor, Agriculture at Immortal, and The Wheel at Deity.

Spoiler huts and events :

Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.

 

[AcaMetis]

No obvious winner on where to settle that I can see, just a lot of mystery tiles that might have something on them. I'd say move the Warrior 1SE onto the hill, since that'll reveal the most tiles, and if there's nothing delicious on that side settle 1W for the grass hill sheep and chance to get something nice from one of the many mystery tiles?

What do the experts think ?

 

[Nick723]

Looks a nice start!

I’m no expert - but mined sheep with IMP is nice so I’d definitely be tempted by 1W if nothing else revealed.

Tech path looks like agriculture -> bronze working.

Will try to play this one!

 

[migalhone]

This seems to be a good start, plenty of riverside cottages and BW is just a tech away. If moving the warrior 1SE reveals more tiles than moving 1NW then that's what its best.

Fractal maps have multiple continents right? If so i'll skip this one, still learning the ropes so prefer Pangea.

 

[Nick723]

This seems to be a good start, plenty of riverside cottages and BW is just a tech away. If moving the warrior 1SE reveals more tiles than moving 1NW then that's what its best.

Fractal maps have multiple continents right? If so i'll skip this one, still learning the ropes so prefer Pangea.

Fractal maps can be a Pangea, but not necessarily. We’ll have to find out what this one is!

Overall I’d recommend playing some fractal maps, gives more variety and also makes you think more as you don’t necessarily know what sort of map you’re on.

 

[AcaMetis]

Not necessarily, but if you're still learning the game I would recommend sticking to a Temperate Climate, Medium Sealevel Pangaea for the moment. Fractal can be very erratic in what shapes it generates. Of course I specify the climate because Cold climate Pangaeas have also rolled some...interesting maps for me before, so...do be careful about that .

 

[migalhone]

Not necessarily, but if you're still learning the game I would recommend sticking to a Temperate Climate, Medium Sealevel Pangaea for the moment. Fractal can be very erratic in what shapes it generates. Of course I specify the climate because Cold climate Pangaeas have also rolled some...interesting maps for me before, so...do be careful about that .

What's the difference between Temperate and Cold climates? Temperate has more grassland/less tundra, and Cold less grassland/more tundra?

 

[dankok8]

Yay Praets!

Spoiler :

Really hope we aren't isolated.

 

[AcaMetis]

What's the difference between Temperate and Cold climates? Temperate has more grassland/less tundra, and Cold less grassland/more tundra?

That's basically what the difference is supposed to be, but for some reason I've had Cold Climate Pangaeas generate some strange landmasses. Or maybe I just "lucked" out and rolled a really unlikely map. One or the other .

 

[MasterofDisasta]

Looks a nice start!

I’m no expert - but mined sheep with IMP is nice so I’d definitely be tempted by 1W if nothing else revealed.

Tech path looks like agriculture -> bronze working.

Will try to play this one!

These are my thoughts as well. I plan to move the warrior to the SE hill to see if I will lose anything by settling 1W.

 

[dankok8]

Played to turn 69 (1240 BC). I hate you @AcaMetis.

Spoiler :

My worst fears when I opened this thread were confirmed. We are isolated! Bye bye Preats...

The island is a little better than the Nap game but I'm more than a little worried about this game. Some builder psycho finished the Pyramids in 1600 BC. Yes that's turn 60. Holy... Add that to the fact that I never won an isolated start on this level and yea...

Anyways I opened Agri then BW, mined the Sheep of course. Lots of early city sites have Fish and Rome starts with Fishing so that was decent. Marble wasn't something I need early but I decided about 20 turns in I'm building the Oracle. No Ind or Stone means Pyramids were out but given only Wine (and later Incense and Whales) on this island I would need happiness from somewhere and Monarchy for HR was the obvious place to go towards. Antium will be a Settler factory here while Rome will grow as large as possible to work Cottages. Early Bureau may be in order as well. I'm thinking to maybe pursue Culture here. Can definitely generate a lot of commerce and iso helps. If I get CoL and bulb Philo I'll also have two relis for temples and stuff.

 

[AcaMetis]

@dankok8

Spoiler :

I went with this map because a straightforward Praet rush (which I did roll a map for) would just be a straight repeat of the Augustus Caesar NC, and Praets do actually have a possible (albeit most likely impractical to the point of uselessness ) use in iso games: They upgrade directly into Grenadiers and Rifles, meaning you can keep building them until you get both Rifling and Military Science. The theory, thus, is that you could either Praetcannon (Praennon?) rush someone directly and save on production, or build an army using more gold than production since you've got access to cheaper melee units to upgrade. Probably nothing worth mentioning, but I figured that examining(/disproving) the possibility would be more interesting than another Praet rush -> obvious winning position before the ADs game. And my efforts to make sure this map wouldn't end up being an absolute nightmare like the Nappy one...

Some builder psycho finished the Pyramids in 1600 BC. Yes that's turn 60. Holy... Add that to the fact that I never won an isolated start on this level and yea...

Were well rewarded I see .Well, looking forward to seeing how this map manages to exceed expectations .

 

[MasterofDisasta]

Gave this a go up to 1080 BC (T73)
Immortal NHNE

Spoiler :

Moved warrior to SE hill. Saw nothing promising so I settled 1W.

The initial scouting revealed lots of seafood, another hills sheep, marble, and not much else. I was starting to grow concerned that we are isolated here ....

I initially settled the Fish NE and chopped out a workboat. I figured this spot would contribute to expansion with its high food but also provide easy commerce with the coastal tiles (more on that in a sec).

If we are isolated I decided I really want Oracle. And either way there seems to be plenty of land with no AI in sight so expansion doesn't need to be rushed.

However, I was feeling greedy. I didn't see a good way to put marble & food in a city's first ring without killing the Western fish. If I was willing to wait I could get marble in the 2nd border pop of the capital.

So I teched Agri -> BW -> Wheel -> AH -> Pottery. Then proceeded to cottage and work the best commerce tiles I had to get the techs needed for Oracle (Myst, Masonry, Meditation, Priesthood).
Once Priesthood was in I chopped out the Oracle in 1 turn. Gambit paid off with a 1280 BC Oracle.

Spoiler :

Is this very, very, late for Oracle on Immortal? Should I have gone for it quicker? I usually don't go for Oracle since I find it hard to spare the research for it early. As I improve my tech pathing hopefully nabbing Oracle will get easier.

My decision of what to grab with Oracle was a tough one between Metal Casting & Monarchy. Monarchy would immediately solve my desperate happiness problem and allow me to go with a thin but tall empire (few cities, lots of pop). In my experience this is the easiest way to get to Optics & Astro fast (keep maintenance costs low and sci slider high). On the other hand, Metal Casting is significantly more expensive and is actually required on the Optics path. I ended up picking Monarchy - I figured I will need it at some point to get enough happiness to do anything on this map. Is that the right call?

Tentative plan now is to found maybe 1 more city (4 total). Tech Caste System in order to pop a few Great Scientists but otherwise focus entirely on the Optics branch. Are there other eco techs worth getting? I'd like to avoid anything that isn't 100% necessary to get to Optics. From my past games in isolation it seems powerful to get to Optics with a small empire, then REX the rest of the available land, bulb astro and take advantage of intercontinental trade routes. I've also had games in which I settled too much land before meeting the AI's and my research stagnated.

State of the Empire @1080BC

Spoiler :

 

[migalhone]

Played to turn 69 (1240 BC).

I hate you @AcaMetis.

Spoiler :

Haha exactly what i thought when i've failed a Quechua rush on the NC game before the Napoleon one

Just kidding @AcaMetis. Even though i'm not ready yet to face anything other than the regular pangea map on Monarch, i really apreciate your effort in bringing an interesting map every week

 

[Wrathful]

1260 AD

Spoiler :

Settled 1W for the sheep tile. I don't think I played very well early on. I remember making some mistakes, such as forgetting to whip at the proper time. I tried to avoid reloading; I'm pretty sure I never did.

I always seem to end up playing isolation whenever I play the Noble's Club maps. It's a shame that praets won't be very helpful here. Though I enjoy playing isolation quite a bit. It's nice not having to deal with random AI behavior, being scared of losing spots, early DOWs, etc.

I got my worker techs, Writing, Monarchy, then headed straight to Optics. Monarchy is pretty clear here. I was tempted to go Aesthetics to use the marble, but I decided against it. I'm pretty sure that decision paid off.

Monarchy was reached in 750 BC, then Optics in 150 AD. Some insane AI circumnavigated the globe in 100 AD. That made me pretty nervous.

I settled six cities pre-Optics. I skipped the crab spot, the ocean fish in the northwest, the double fish spot far in the south, and the two far eastern spots.

Got some good trades out of the AI:

I put two bulbs into Astro and got it in 300 AD.

By 400 AD I had met everyone. None of them had Optics. The main continent must stretch across the entire width of the world; how else could someone have proven that the world is round?

Screenshot of Rome in 425 AD:

I self-teched Currency (couldn't trade for it) and am now heading for Civil Service.

From there I went for Engineering, Guilds, Chemistry, and Steel. Not much trading happened; the AI just wasn't advanced enough. Wang had some things that I wanted but wouldn't trade of course.

I invested in some courthouses in my older cities, figuring that they ought to pay off over the course of the game. My newer cities only got a granary, lighthouse, forge, and library if culture was needed. Barracks were built in older cities. My plan was to use the newer cities for galleons and the older cities for troops. I slowly built up a force of praets, maces, pikes, and a few musketmen while waiting for Steel.

I never whipped my capital; it grew quite large as the game progressed. I whipped away coast tiles and specialists in other cities. At this point, other than bulbing Scientific Method or starting a golden age, I don't have any use for great people.

There was some fighting on the other continent. For a moment, it looked like I might have to bribe Charlie off of Bismarck, but Bismarck held on. Tough guy.

Eventually Bismarck made peace with Charlie...then peace vassaled to him. Talk about Stockholm Syndrome. I did not consider that outcome.

Charlie later declared on Gilgamesh, or maybe he was bribed. Monty was also attacking Gilgamesh. At one point, Charlie took a city, so I decided to pull him out of the war.

But then he declared again in six turns. He's becoming a monster. Maybe I should have bribed him off of Germany earlier, but I didn't think that Germany would peace vassal to a guy that declared war on him.

I invaded Lincoln in 1210 AD. Why Lincoln? Well, he seemed very weak, and I wasn't brave enough to go after Charlie. Maybe that was a mistake.

Gilgamesh lost a city by the way. He did take out quite a few of Charlie's units though. But now Bismarck has joined the fun and sent his own (pitiful) army after Gilgamesh.

I stopped in 1260 AD. I don't think Lincoln will be much of a problem. After taking him out I can go after Wang or Bismarck. I'm close to Rifling.

I am monitoring the war against Gilgamesh. He has lost one city but seems to be holding on. I should be able to bribe off Charlie if things look bad. Monty is still stuck fighting Gilgamesh as well, but he is a non-factor in this game.

 

[Fish Man]

Well...

Spoiler :

At least this isolated start has a disgusting amount of food and decent health. Might give it a spin on deity.

I'm pretty sure you edited the three fish in, right? There's no way that so many can appear clumped together naturally...I should know, as I am the natural expert on fish here. Not that I'm complaining though...

 

[dankok8]

@AcaMetis

Spoiler :

Praets are really really good medieval units because they are so cheap. So a Galleon invasion with Praets + Cannons is a very good option but it's nothing like cracking Archer skulls with impunity. Something about that just makes me really happy and you took it from me!

 

[Pangaea]

Yay Praets!
Really hope we aren't isolated

I hate you @AcaMetis.

This does not bode well!

Apart from probably taking another sledgehammer to the face, my initial thoughts here are to move the warrior onto the hill SE, and settle 1W if nothing pops up that changes my opinion.

 

[Imploding]

Let's see what we can do with JC!

Thinking 1W as capital. mining sheep! and 6 food tile!

 

[AcaMetis]

Well...

Spoiler :

At least this isolated start has a disgusting amount of food and decent health. Might give it a spin on deity.

I'm pretty sure you edited the three fish in, right? There's no way that so many can appear clumped together naturally...

Eh...yes and no ?

Spoiler :

I've definitely seen clusters of fish that big spawn together before (mostly starting capitol spots, but I remember one prior NC that had a three tile island with two mountains and three Fish clumped around it. IIRC that was the Asoka NC map, and I moved both of the unworkable Fish over to your shores?). But yes, in this case two Fish were natural spawn and I moved the third from an unworkable spot to what I'd like to call "the National Epic desert". It was as close to a justification for actually building a Forum for it's unique effect that I could think of .

@AcaMetis

Spoiler :

Praets are really really good medieval units because they are so cheap. So a Galleon invasion with Praets + Cannons is a very good option but it's nothing like cracking Archer skulls with impunity. Something about that just makes me really happy and you took it from me!

Spoiler :

Well, unless you fog bust your entire island you're likely to get a barb city or two, so you'll get the chance to crack some archer skulls .

This does not bode well!

Apart from probably taking another sledgehammer to the face, my initial thoughts here are to move the warrior onto the hill SE, and settle 1W if nothing pops up that changes my opinion.

Eh, what's the worst that can happen...?