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Nobles' Club 267: Montezuma of the Aztecs

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by matthias78, Dec 31, 2020.

  1. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    Well, playable for sure, but it's not what it should be. :) There are no worldbuilder files. Worldbuilder files are better because you can then use BUFFY or change the game speed. Also, there are no saves with huts (not sure if anyone cares though). I don't know if you added techs to barbs, but they were incorrect at least on the deity save. These should be added by the player anyway!

    T37
    Spoiler :
    Went NW with the settler, intending to settle there unless the scout finds something. It did, so settled the capital T5. Found the river area with two logical scout moves, so I don't think this is cheesy. Also, it's T37 and I haven't even started the 1st settler, so looks pretty horrid. It's do or die 2-city HA-attack...

    Civ4ScreenShot0272.JPG
     
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  2. drewisfat

    drewisfat Prince

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    Spoiler Sampsa/Krikav :
    So 6 mins after he said no alternative besides a cheesy settler walk, Sampsa posts a cheesy settler walk then denies cheese!? :lol:
    It's a fair move though, clam/plain cow starts are the worst, and there's only one direction to walk. Problem is even with a strong commerce capital we still don't have a lot of production as we gave up all those trees. Going to 2nd city SW of pigs or try to reclaim your original spot?
     
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  3. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    @drewisfat
    Spoiler :
    Yep, had to add a line denying cheese. :mischief: I went SW of pigs to immediately claim horse. It's a pain to get enough :hammers: from this, but at least saved some :hammers: by not building "useless" settlers/workers... I think it's doable if I can somehow attack Ulundi first with ~10HAs.
     
  4. Kernigh

    Kernigh Chieftain

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    I started my Prince game. This is my first Noble's Club game. I won't read spoilers from other players until I am further into my game. For now, I don't know whether my game is like other players' games. I have played enough Civ4 to know about early techs, like Pottery for cottages and Bronze Working for slaves.

    Spoiler 2040 BC T49 :

    • 4000 BC T0. Settle in place my 1st city Clam-a-lot. Move my citizen from cow (2 food 1 hammer) to plains forest (1 food 2 hammers). 2nd Scout in 5 turns. Fishing in 6 turns.
    • 3760 BC T6. Meet Gilgamesh of Sumeria. Clam-a-lot built the Scout and made 1 turn of a Barracks; set queue to build 3 Work Boats, then finish the Barracks. (Control-click a Work Boat to insert it in front of the queue.) Mining in 6 turns; Bronze Working in 16 turns.
    • 3680 BC T8. Meet Shaka of Zululand.
    • 3600 BC T10. Someone founds Hinduism.
    • 3360 BC T16. Gilgamesh founds Buddhism. Work Boat connects 1st clam. Move my citizen to the clam (4 food 2 commerce); will put my 2nd citizen on plains forest.
    • 3040 BC T24. Learn Bronze Working and adopt Slavery. Don't see nearby copper. Gilgamesh will get copper. Start worker techs, beginning with Agriculture (6 turns). Don't have a Worker.
    • 2920 BC T27. Connect 2nd clam. Clam-a-lot works 2 clams and 1 plains forest.
    • 2680 BC T33. Connect 3rd clam. My slaves hurried the last Work Boat as my city reached size 4. It now has size 3, citzens on all 3 clams. Delay the Barracks; Worker in 5 turns. Plan to settle westward and avoid the northern jungle. 1 of my 2 scouts is a sentry to the west, watching for barbarians who might attack my Settlers. The other scout is still mapping the continent.
    • 2480 BC T38. I have a Worker! Cow pasture in 4 turns. Settler in 11 turns if I stay on the clams, but I will move a citizen to the pasture.
    • 2320 BC T43. Someone founds Judaism. I see only Buddhism on my continent.
    • 2040 BC T49. Settle my 2nd city of Westcow, by the next cow to the west, on the hill southeast of the cow. My Worker had roaded the 2 tiles between Clam-a-lot and Westcow, now begins the next cow pasture. Westcow borrows a clam from Clam-a-lot. Westcow will build a Warrior. Clam-a-lot made a 2nd turn of Barracks and begins a Lighthouse.
    • Clam-a-lot has size 3. Whenever it reaches size 4, I want my slaves to hurry a Settler or a Warrior. When it is below size 4, I want to build a Lighthouse and then the Great Lighthouse. I won't have ivory, marble, nor stone, so I will avoid most wonders, but I might want the Apostolic Palace. My civ ranks 5th (last) in food. Shaka has 3 cities and some Archers; I only have 2 cities, 2 Scouts, and 1 Worker.
     
  5. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    @Kernigh you should add some screenshots so people get some feel of your game. It's easy - just hit PrtSc while playing and the screenshot is saved into your "screenshots"-folder. Then when posting, choose "upload a file" from bottom right and add the screenshots.
     
    krikav likes this.
  6. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    T82
    Spoiler :
    After HBR, went BW-writing-(alpha) intending to extort techs in peace deal(s). WFYABTA shouldn't matter since Gilgamesh is easy to befriend (religion + fav civic + city gift) and Shaka will be gone if things go my way. Two cities, one worker. Attack T82 with 9 HAs which can nicely fork three cities.

    Civ4ScreenShot0273.JPG

    There are some issues with the saves. AI's initial settlers never spawn on resources and they always SIP on T0. Thus it shouldn't be possible to have the capital on a resource. No big deal of course.

    Civ4ScreenShot0274.JPG
     
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  7. matthias78

    matthias78 Chieftain

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    @sampsa: Great approach to get that city near the horses and starting a HA attack. 10 HA seems that Shaka will be goon soon. Wish you the best on your attack!
     
  8. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Spoiler New attempt :


    Tried to go a attempt at an alfabet beeline after writing, skipping tw/pottery etc.
    Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG
    Whipping a second settler at only a tiny bit overflow (enough to finish GLH though)
    Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG
    The idea was to gift Shaka a city as early as possible, because the threat from him is really the largest obstacle in this game.
    Civ4ScreenShot0002.JPG
    The turn after I gift him a city, he starts plotting.
    As I got to know 5 turns or so later when impis marched into my territory, I was the target, even though I wasn't a land target and I was up at pleased.
    Shaka you bastard!
    Civ4ScreenShot0003.JPG



     
  9. Kernigh

    Kernigh Chieftain

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    I needed @sampsa's hint, because I didn't know how to make screenshots. I'm running Beyond the Sword (with no mods) on Windows 10.

    In my Prince game, I'm missing a tech that reveals an early resource. I haven't opened the spoilers for your games, because your maps might have the resource.

    Spoiler 775 BC T84 :

    In 2040 BC T49, I have the smallest civ in the game, with just 2 cities. I know Sailing and Bronze Working but am missing everything after Mysticism. (I can't build the Oracle because I researched the wrong techs.) My only units are 2 Scouts and a Worker. Shaka is nearby. My spies report that Shaka is sharply up in power. I feel vulnerable, and urgently want to settle more cities and build a military.

    I learn Writing in 1560 BC T61 and get open borders with both Gilgamesh and Shaka, so I gain trade routes via Sailing to their cities. I also trade my clams for Gilgamesh's cows. My cities don't have my own cows because my 2 cow pastures don't have roads. I learn Alphabet in 925 BC T78 and trade my Alphabet for Gilgamesh's Archery and Masonry. I can't see iron. Shaka has Iron Working but refuses to trade it.

    I lose a race with Shaka when he settles his 4th city of Bulawayo by some rice before I can settle my 3rd city there. I settle my 3rd city of South Colorado in 1440 BC T64, my 4th city of Khyber in 1080 BC T73, my 5th city of Land's End in 775 BC T84. Aztecland is a snake, almost like Chile, from Clam-a-lot in the east to Land's End in the west. Shaka's Bulawayo is bisecting my snake, because the road from Westcow to South Colorado goes through Zulu culture. If I lose open borders, I still have a connection via Sailing from Land's End to Westcow.

    I have 9 Warriors, a Worker, and a Scout. (A barbarian slew my other Scout.) My Worker made pastures on 2 cows and a pig, and some roads. I have no farms nor cottages. There is a Lighthouse in Clam-a-lot, and both a Granary and a Library in Westcow. I want more Workers so they can cut down forests to build the Great Lighthouse in Clam-a-lot.

    2021-01-04.png
     
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  10. Nick723

    Nick723 Warlord

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    Nice write up!

    If you don’t mind me weighing in, a couple of quick tips to help you improve.

    1) You’ve identified you should build more workers. Good! 1 at this stage, with the cities you have, is too low. You should probably have more like 5!
    2) Chop forests! Once you have more workers, you’ll have much more manpower, and chopping should be one of your first priorities (after improving food). You did the right thing building pastures, but the roads you built took up a lot of turns that could have been spent chopping instead. Don’t just chop into wonders, but everything. This will really snowball your expansion.
     
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  11. Kernigh

    Kernigh Chieftain

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    @Nick723 I used the road to connect trade and to move my Settlers, but I might have built too many road tiles near the river. I had another game where I didn't chop forests until I had Mathematics (+50% from chop). In this game, I start chopping forests earlier.

    I revealed the missing resource (in my Prince game) and will now read some spoilers from other players.

    Spoiler 75 BC T112 :

    The year is 775 BC T84, and I have just now settled my 5th city of Land's End on top of copper. This enables the Axeman and Spearman. I can't see iron, but Shaka has a mine in the desert, which I suspect is an iron mine. Shaka might not have horses, after Gilgamesh took a horse, and I took the other horse. I don't know whether I have enough time to build a military before Shaka invades my Aztecland. Shaka would attack with melee units, so I would want Axemen on defense, because the Axeman has +50% versus melee.

    In 775 BC T84, I have the option to "liberate" 3 of my 5 cities to Shaka. That's scary. These 3 produce no culture, and the nearest cities with culture belong to Shaka. I begin trading a clam for Shaka's rice. I am still trading a clam for Gilgamesh's cow. Whenever my cities ask to join Zululand, I say, "Forget it, I'm the one in charge here!"

    For wonders, unknown civs have built the Great Wall, Stonehenge, the Oracle, and the Temple of Artemis. Shaka, who has stone, wins the Pyramids in 525 BC T94. I win the Great Lighthouse in 400 BC T99 in my capital Clam-a-lot, after chopping 2 tiles of forest, and after revealing iron, but before mining Clam-a-lot's iron.

    2021-01-05.png

    It turns out that I didn't have enough time to build a military. Shaka invades East Aztecland in 75 BC T112 with a stack of 1 Swordsman, 1 Axeman, 2 Impis, and 3 Archers by Westcow. I have 2 Warriors defending Westcow. I made a mistake by building a Galley and not an Axeman in Westcow, so now I can't hurry an Axeman. I might hurry the Galley, just to shrink the city from size 3 to 2, and order the Warriors to flee to my capital of Clam-a-lot, where I have 1 Warrior, Palace, Barracks, Granary, Lighthouse, Library, and the Great Lighthouse. I can pay 80 gold to upgrade Clam-a-lot's Warrior to an Axeman.

    2021-01-05 (1).png

    I have a stronger position in West Aztecland, where I have 5 Axemen, 6 Warriors, and 5 Workers (after capturing Shaka's Worker). I had expected Shaka to attack these 3 cities, not Westcow. All 3 cities are on hills. South Colorado has a Barracks, Granary, and Library. Khyber has a Granary and Library. Land's End has a Granary and Monument.

    2021-01-05 (2).png

    I'm bad at predicting wars, but I might lose all of East Aztecland to Shaka. The question is whether or not I survive in West Aztecland. As the war begins in 75 BC T112, my civ ranks 5th (last) in food, production, and gold; I have 5 cities; Shaka also has 5 cities.
     
  12. 5tephen

    5tephen Warlord

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    @Kernigh
    Maybe pay gold and upgrade warriors in Westcow and whip a warrior there this turn instead of the galley? Probably still lose the city but might put a dent in his army whilst you build up some defence in your capital...
    Think you would have 10% chance of keeping the city assuming no promotions on any of your units -
    https://civ.zulan.net/vodka/combat.php
    Otherwise need to 2 pop whip axes everywhere ASAP or even 1 pop whip if 2 pop doesn't work
     
  13. Kernigh

    Kernigh Chieftain

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    Thanks for the advice, @5tephen.

    Spoiler 475 BC T134 :

    Shaka is attacking Westcow! The year is 75 BC T112. I would order my 2 Warriors in Westcow to flee to Clam-a-lot, but I change my mind. I want them to defend the city. They might die, but they might delay the attack on Clam-a-lot, if Shaka stops to heal his units. I pay 80 gold to upgrade a Warrior in Westcow to an Axeman. My slaves hurry a Scout in Westcow, because I can't hurry a better unit: Warrior is obsolete, Axeman and Archer are too expensive.

    The defenders of Westcow (20% defense) on a hill (25% defense) are
    • Axeman (5 strength), Combat I, no fortify bonus
    • Warrior (2 strength), Combat I, 25% fortify bonus
    • Scout (1 strength) in 1 turn
    Shaka's units, on the cow tile next to Westcow, are
    • Swordsman (6), Combat I, City Raider I
    • Axeman (5), Combat I, Combat II
    • Impi (4), Combat I, Combat II, Mobility
    • Impi (4), Combat I, Combat II, Mobility
    • Archer (3), Combat I
    • Archer (3), no promotion
    • Archer (3), no promotion
    I end my turn on 75 BC T112, and Shaka attacks: his sword (0.5/6 after battle) slays my axe; his axe (3.6/5) slays my Warrior; his Archer (3/3) slays my Scout and conquers Westcow.

    In 1 AD T115, Gilgamesh cancels our resource trade (his cow for my clam); I suspect that he connected the clam by his city of Zimbir. We agree on a new deal: his silk for my only pig. I lose the pig's health but gain the silk's happiness. On this turn, I attack Shaka's city of Bulawayo. I have 4 axes (5), all with Combat I, Shock; and Bulawayo (20% defense, no hill) has 3 swords (6), all with Combat I, 2 with Combat II. My 1st axe wins at 63% chance against Shaka's 1st sword. My luck continues as I win the next 2 battles (at better odds).

    2021-01-07.png

    We conquer Bulawayo! My Aztecs are now ahead in the war! We traded cities with Shaka's Zulus, but Bulawayo is better than Westcow. With worse luck, I might have lost my axes, and West Aztecland might now be vulnerable to a Zulu attack. I loot 125 gold from Bulawayo and use 80 gold to upgrade Clam-a-lot's Warrior to axe. 1 turn after the battle, I promote 1 axe to Medic I and 2 axes to Combat II. 2 turns after the battle, in 50 AD T117, my axe pillages Shaka's iron mine northwest of Bulawayo. I see no other copper nor iron for Shaka.

    Shaka moves units from Westcow toward Bulawayo. The fighting resumes around Bulawayo and both sides lose units. In 125 AD T120, Buddhism appears in my capital Clam-a-lot and I immediately convert. Then in 150 AD T121, I adopt both Hereditary Rule and Organized Religion. The war continues. I end this part in 475 BC T134 as I settle my city of Taipei on the island near my capital.

    2021-01-07 (1).png

    In East Aztecland, Shaka has conquered Westcow. I was afraid of losing the Great Lightouse in my capital Clam-a-lot, but Shaka never attacked Clam-a-lot. Aztec culture from Clam-a-lot has almost surrounded Westcow. I whipped slaves and my Worker chopped trees to make a stack of Axemen in Clam-a-lot. A barbarian Galley recently pillaged all 3 clams, but I will build Work Boats to reconnect them. Taipei is on a 2-tile island.

    2021-01-07 (2).png

    West Aztecland has a long border with Shaka's Zululand. This border is hard to defend; I luckily conquered Bulawayo while most of Shaka's army was near Westcow. Shaka has not reconnected his iron northwest of Bulawayo. The iron is 3 tiles from Shaka's capital, so it might stay in Zulu culture.
     
  14. Kernigh

    Kernigh Chieftain

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    Spoiler 1090 AD T169 :

    I'm ending the war against Shaka. In past games, I would meet the leader and click, "Lets stop this pointless fighting and declare peace!" It is better to enter the trade table and click, "Let us bury the hatchet. What is the price for peace?"

    In 520 AD T136, I attack and slay 1 of 2 Archers in Nongoma, Shaka's city on the west coast north of my Land's End. I enter the trade table and check the price for peace. Shaka offers to return the city of Westcow. That's not good enough. I slay the other Archer, conquer Nongoma, and loot 52 gold. I pillage the nearby stone quarry for 1 more gold.

    2021-01-09.png

    2021-01-09 (1).png

    Back at the trade table, Shaka offers to return Westcow and teach Mathematics. I accept. The war is over! Shaka has lost his 2 cities of Bulawayo and Nongoma. I now have 8 cities.

    2021-01-09 (2).png

    The power graph in 540 AD T137 shows that Shaka and I are now about equal in power. Shaka was ahead for most of the game, but he peaked at 1 AD T115 when he lost Bulawayo. In statistics, I have lost 5 Axemen, 2 Scouts, 2 Workers, 1 Jaguar, 1 Warrior; and I have killed 12 Archers, 4 Swordsmen, 3 Impis, 3 Lions, 2 Axemen, 2 Warriors, 2 Settlers, 1 Catapult, 1 Galley. In demographics, I rank 4th in crop yield. Shaka might be 5th (last). I am about 1 tech behind Shaka and at least 6 techs behind Gilgamesh of Sumeria.

    I had wanted to learn Theology and build the Apostolic Palace, but Gilgamesh learned Theology (and founded Christianity) during the war, so I switched from Theology to Metal Casting. In 580 AD T139, I learn Metal Casting and trade it to Gilgamesh, who later completes the Apostolic Palace for Buddhism. In 760 AD T148, Gilgamesh wins the AP election with all 194 votes (need 77 to win; I have 76 votes, Shaka 12, Gilgamesh 106). I have built missionaries and spread Buddhism from Clam-a-lot to some of my other cities. This is good for me, because the Apostolic Palace will add 2 hammers to each Buddhist Temple or Monastery.

    I settle Soria Moria in 720 AD T146. I build a new Palace in Bulawayo in 760 AD T148; this moves my capital from Clam-a-lot to Bulawayo and lowers my city maintenance from 51 to 43 gold. I settle Ice Burg in 1050 AD T165, so I now have 10 cities.

    There is a brief second war when Shaka declares again in 840 AD T152 and attacks Nongoma on the same turn. Shaka has Catapults, but his army is too small. Shaka and I both lose units, and I again pillage Shaka's iron mine, but no cities change civs. The Apostolic Palace stops the war in 960 AD T158, with all 3 civs voting yes. In 1050 AD T165, I reopen borders with Shaka's Zululand, and trade my clam for his dye.

    2021-01-09 (3).png

    My northernmost cities, from east to west, I have Clam-a-lot, Westcow, Bulawayo (my new capital), and Nongoma (on the west coast). Shaka's capital of Ulundi has expanded borders to just outside Nongoma and Bulawayo, now my 2 most vulnerable cities.

    2021-01-09 (4).png

    Further south, from east to west, I have Taipei (on the 2-tile island), Soria Moria (near some iron), Khyber (between the mountains), and Land's End (on the west coast). In the far southwest, I have Ice Burg. I settled Soria Moria to claim some empty land and Ice Burg to claim a crab and silver.

    In 1090 AD T169, my civ ranks 4th in food, 4th in production, and 4th in gold. That's last except for Shaka. I have researched more buildings than I can produce. I have completed Granary and Library in most cities. I am building Buddhist Temple, Sacrificial Altar, and Forge. I also want to build Buddhist Monastery and Market. I want Lighthouse and Harbor in coastal cities, and the Moai Statues in Taipei. I am chopping forests and whipping slaves to produce buildings, but I seem to be running behind the other civs. I can see that Gilgamesh's cities in Sumeria are larger than my cities in Aztecland.
     
  15. Kernigh

    Kernigh Chieftain

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    Spoiler 1705 AD T251 :

    I began the game at Prince difficulty by settling by the clams, expanding to the west, building the Great Lighthouse, and gaining 2 cities from Shaka in an early war. Later, the Apostolic Palace stopped a second war. Now, my Aztecland has 10 cities, practices Buddhism, and is producing buildings like Forges and Harbors.

    In 1120 AD T172, Shaka declares war for the 3rd time. The war goes well for me; I lose an Axeman but slay several units, steal 3 Workers, and pillage 4 resources (starting with Shaka's iron mine). The Apostolic Palace stops the war in 1210 AD T181. (All 3 civs vote yes.)

    In 1140 AD T174, Gilgamesh converts to Christianity and spreads Christianity to Clam-a-lot. I didn't expect this conversion. Gilgamesh had founded Buddhism and Christianity, the only religions on our continent. He has both religions in 8 of his 9 cities, but only Christianity in his island city of Shuruppak; he converted to the religion in more cities. In the next turns, I build missionaries and spread Christianity to all my cities. In 1310 AD T191, I convert to Christianity and lose my full membership of the Buddhist Apostolic Palace (built by Gilgamesh). This lowers my AP votes from 158 to 79. Gilgamesh has 88 votes. Shaka, the last full member, has 36 votes. Now that I'm not a full member, the AP might assign my city of Nongoma to Shaka, or declare a holy war against me.

    I finish the Moai Statues in Taipei in 1250 AD T185, after whipping the city size from 11 down to 6. My cities and military are growing, but I'm running behind Gilgamesh in tech. My scientists research medieval techs, but Gilgamesh already knows them. I don't trade techs and I don't build wonders. "1430 AD: Gilgamesh is the first to discover Liberalism!", while my scientists research Paper, which is 2 techs behind Liberalism.

    My Caravels discover Brennus of Celtia in 1480 AD T208 and Suryavarman II of Cambodia in 1520 AD T214; they live on the other continent. I prove that the world is round (+1 move) in 1515 AD T213. Gilgamesh built Caravels before me, but I hurried 2 Caravels and sent them west and east to round the world. I trade techs with Suryavarman in 1545 AD T219 and immediately adopt Theocracy. I am using Hereditary Rule, Vassalage, and Slavery. (I prefer Vassalage over Bureaucracy because my capital, Bulawayo, is not that good for Bureaucracy.)

    In 1550 AD T220, I declare the 4th war against Shaka, because I want more cities. I now have 10 cities and rank 4th in crop yield; if I stay this way, I might lose the game when Gilgamesh grabs a Space or Cultural Victory. Shaka has been stuck at 4 cities (since the end of the 1st war), so he is the obvious target. Shaka has no friends, because Gilgamesh is cautious toward Shaka, and Brennus and Suryavarman have not met Shaka. The way to please Gilgamesh is to convert to his religion, Christianity, and to adopt his favorite civic, Hereditary Rule; but Shaka stayed in Buddhism and used the Pyramids to adopt Police State. Shaka, "Your head will look good on the end of a pole. (WAR)"

    A better player might have conquered Shaka before he learned Feudalism and Engineering, but I waited to build my army, and now I expect to bombard castles and slay Longbowmen. The last 3 wars had no medieval units (except for my Crossbowman in the 3rd war), but this 4th war has medieval units on both sides. My stack of 6 Knights, 3 Macemen, 3 Crossbowmen, 5 Catapults, 4 Trebuchets, and 1 Chariot invade from Bulawayo and pillage Shaka's iron mine. My other stack of 1 Knight, 1 Maceman, 3 Crossbowmen, 3 Axemen, and 1 Jaguar invade from Nongoma and pillage Shaka's stone quarry. Shaka's stack of 2 Pikemen, 3 Crossbowmen, and 1 Catapult threatens Nongoma, so my stack from Nongoma returns to defend the city, while my other stack begins to bombard the castle at Shaka's capital of Ulundi. Shaka's attack on Nongoma fails in 1580 AD T226.

    2021-01-13.png

    I conquer Ulundi, with the Pyramids and the Mausoleum of Mausolos, in 1585 AD T227. I lose only a Knight and a Crossbowman. On this turn, I open the espionage screen and stop adding espionage points to Shaka. I put most points on Gilgamesh and a few on Brennus and Suryavarman.

    A few turns after Ulundi fell, the Apostolic Palace tries to stop the war. I want to continue the war, but don't want the penalty for defying a resolution, so I vote no. I expect the resolution to pass, but it fails. "Stop the fighting among our brothers in faith. Fails! (147 Votes - Required 158 of of 255)" Shaka votes yes (44) and Gilgamesh votes yes (103) but I vote no (108). Before the war ends, the Apostolic Palace tries a 2nd time, and again fails to stop the war.

    Because the war continues, I conquer uMgungundlovu in 1625 AD T235, kwaDukuza in 1660 AD T242, and finally Nobamba in 1670 AD T244. My Catapults and Trebuchets bombard each city's defenses, then my Knights lead my attack. My Macemen and Crossbowmen attack a few units, but my obsolete Axemen and Jaguar never attack. My Trebuchets attack units only at kwaDukuza, Shaka's only city on a hill, because hills are easier to defend; my Trebuchets damage the defenders of kwaDukuza before my Knights attack. The fall of Nobamba ends Shaka's civ. I don't take Shaka as a vassal, because I want all his cities, and I don't want the Apostolic Palace to return cities to Shaka.

    The fall of Shaka's Zululand might be what wins the game for me. In demographics, I have risen to 1st in land area and 3rd in crop yield. I might rise more as I develop the formerly Zulu cities. I might want to invade Celtia, where Brennus has picked me as his worst enemy. If the Celtic civ would capitulate, then I might spread Buddhism and try for a Diplomatic Victory at the Apostolic Palace, or make more wars for a Domination Victory. I can't invade Brennus now, because his Frigates would sink my Galleons.

    My problem is my weak economy. I rank 4th in GNP, with 656 million gold; but my rival best/average/worst GNPs are 1005/1626/2226 million gold. (This is in 1670 AD T244, as my commerce is 100% science and I am 2 turns from Rifling.) If I can't fix this, then I will fall behind in tech, and fail to invade Celtia or stop anyone's Space Victory. During the war, I got Economics from Suryavarman II and switched my economy from Decentralization to Free Market. I now have 5 trade routes in each city, but I have no foreign trade routes, because Gilgamesh and Suryavarman have adopted Mercantalism (blocking foreign trade) and Brennus doesn't open borders. I decide to keep Free Market and not adopt Mercantalism, but this might not be the best decision.

    Around the beginning of the war, Gilgamesh adopted Free Religion and lost his state religion, so I have the last Christian civ. As the war ends in 1670 AD T244, I convert from Christianity to Buddhism to increase my Apostolic Palace votes. I also switch from Theocracy to Organized Religion; Theocracy was good for producing military units, but Organized Religion is better now that all my cities are producing buildings.

    My scientists finish Rifling by 1680 AD T246, then move toward Democracy so I can produce more espionage. In 1695 AD T249, my Great Merchant collects 1500 gold from Angle, Cambodia. (My other great people are 2 Great Merchants settled Clam-a-lot, a Great Engineer and a Great General settled in Soria Moria, and a Great General leading my Medic III Chariot.)

    2021-01-14.png

    In 1705 AD T251, Nobamba stops resisting my order. I now have peace in all 14 cities, but there is a risk that kawDukuza and Nobamba will revolt to Gilgamesh's Sumeria. I have only 2 national wonders: my Palace in Bulawayo, and the Moai Statues in Taipei; but I am producing the Heroic Epic in Soria Moria and Oxford University in Clam-a-lot.

    Brennus is threatening a Cultural Victory. The culture in Celtic cities is 26133 in Bibracte, 16280 in Tolosa, 14779 in Vienne, on the Victory Conditions screen. I recall that a Cultural Victory happens when 3 cities each have 50000 culture. I might need to invade Brennus across the sea to stop the Cultural Victory. I made a successful overseas invasion in a past game, but I don't know whether I can make it in this game.
     
  16. Kernigh

    Kernigh Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2021
    Messages:
    20
    I lose the game in 1924 AD T344 when a Prince AI wins a Cultural Victory.

    Normalized score = 3950

    Spoiler 1924 AD T344 :

    It is 1705 AD T251. My Aztecland is the largest civ in this game, but Brennus of Celtia is moving toward Cultural Victory. I want to invade Celtia before Brennus wins the game, but first, I want to develop my recent conquests in the former Zululand.
    I had conquered Shaka's last 4 cities. This removed Zulu culture from the game, but now Sumerian culture from Gilgamesh is pushing on my northern border. uMgungundlovu is 100% Aztec but just outside the Sumerian border. kwaDukuza and Nobamba are 99% Sumerian and 1% Aztec and might revolt to Gilgamesh's rule. I move part of my army to these 3 cities, and whip slaves to hurry some cultural buildings. It helps that Montezuma is Spiritual, so he is good at producing monasteries and temples for culture. I suffer a single Sumerian riot in Nobamba before I get the revolt chance down to 0%. Gilgamesh is not a full member of the Apostolic Palace, so the AP won't transfer my cities to him.

    In 1785 AD T267, I switch civics from Slavery to Emancipation, and from Vassalage to Free Speech. I get extra commerce with Free Speech from my towns in the south, while Emancipation grows my cottages in the north. I stay in Hereditary Rule to please Gilgamesh and in Organized Religion to please Suryavarman II of Cambodia; I also stay in Free Market. Gilgamesh ignores my Hereditary Rule because he has switched to Universal Suffrage.

    In 1802 AD T271, Brennus offers to give corn for my iron. I am plotting war against Brennus, and I don't want his army to have iron, but I agree to give a clam. I also open borders with Brennus, because I want the overseas trade routes. I want to learn some techs and industrialize my civ before I start the war.

    In 1824 AD T282, I learn Corporation and obsolete my Great Lighthouse, so I go down from 5 to 4 trade routes in each city. On this same turn, a Great Engineer from Westcow founds Creative Constructions in Nobamba. This is the first corporation in the game. I want corporations because I have no useful wonders. (The Great Lighthouse is obsolete, the Pyramids do nothing as long as I keep Hereditary Rule, and the Mausoleum of Mausolos does nothing because I never had a golden age.) I choose Creative Constructions over Mining Inc because I want the culture; but in 1850 AD T295, a Great Engineer from Clam-a-lot founds Mining Inc in Soria Moria. In the next turns, I expand Creative Constructions into my northern cities near the Sumerian border, and Mining Inc into my other cities.

    Until now, my commerce on most turns was either 100% science or 100% gold. When I learn Medicine in 1864 AD T302, I switch to 60% espionage 40% gold, change some specialists from scientists to spies, and put all my espionage points on Brennus.

    In 1878 AD T309, my war stack near Taipei leaves my borders and begins the journey to Celtia. The stack is going east from my east coast. One can also reach Celtia by going west from my west coast, but I produced my navy on the east coast, where I have more hammers. My stack has 9 Destroyers, 9 Galleons, 2 Machine Guns, 5 Infantry, 15 Cavalry, 4 Cannons, and 1 Medic III Chariot.

    In 1888 AD T314, I declare war, bombard and blockade the Celtic city of Durocortorum, and land my army. I don't know whether I brought enough units. In the next turns, Brennus attacks my land stack, but his attackers are outside the city, where I slay them. He loses more units than me. In 1894 T317, a Great Engineer from Khyber starts my first golden age, and I lower espionage back to 0% so I can research more techs. I wanted but failed to get city visibility on Brennus; I have more than 13000 espionage points, but would need more than 35000 for city visiblity.

    In 1901 AD T321, 2 Celtic Battleships sink 2 of my Destroyers. I'm now in trouble, because Brennus will sink my whole navy unless I can learn to build Battleships. I see the 2 Battleships and a Fighter in Durocortorum, defended by 4 Infantry, a Machine Gun, and a Paratropper. The city is on a hill, but I gamble that my stack is large enough to conquer it. My first 10 attacks (with a Cannon and 9 Cavalry) fail, but I win the next 6 combats.

    2021-01-17.png

    I conquer Durocortorum in 1901 AD T321. My conquest doesn't hinder Brennus's Cultural Victory because Durocortorum wasn't among his 3 best cities.

    I move my navy into the city to hide from any Celtic Battleships. I begin to produce Wealth in some cities, to hasten my research of Electricity and Industrialism, because I urgently want Battleships and Tanks. I stop transporting units to Celtia, because I have no Battleships to guard them. In the next turns, while my navy hides in Durocortorum, a few Celtic ships reach my poorly defended coasts and pillage my crab, fish, and clams. My cities starve. After I build more ships, I sink the Celtic ships and reconnect the resources.

    2021-01-17 (1).png

    Gilgamesh, who has obsoleted the Apostolic Palace and completed the United Nations, tries to get a Diplomatic Victory. I almost lose the game in 1909 AD T329, as the UN announces that Suryavarman II voted for Gilgamesh, but Brennus abstained. I would lose the game if my enemy Brennus also votes for Gilgamesh.

    After I learn Industrialism, I build some Tanks, Transports, and Battleships and move them close to Celtia, but I lose the race.

    2021-01-17 (2).png

    Brennus wins a Cultural Victory at Prince in 1924 AD T344. My stack of 2 Battleships, 2 Destroyers, 3 Transports, 6 Tanks, 4 Cavalry, 2 Infantry, 3 Cannons, and 1 Artillery was 6 tiles away from Tolosa, 1 of the 3 legendary cities. I would have landed my stack on this turn.

    2021-01-18.png

    Brennus's 3 legendary cities are Bibracte (83410 culture), Tolosa (62020), and Vienne (50226). Bibracte is the capital and has Angkor Wat, Notre Dame, and at least 5 other wonders. Vienne has the Taj Mahal. Tolosa has the Sistine Chapel and is on the coast. All 3 are holy cities with shrines. My units had arrived from the west and moved past Tolosa to conquer Durocortorum in the east.

    If I would have conquered Tolosa and not Durocortorum, I might have stopped Brennus's victory. My plan was to conquer some outlying cities before attacking Tolosa, because outlying cities might have fewer fortified units on defense; but my plan stalled when Brennus got Battleships. Brennus needs oil to produce Battleships. His oil was on a coastal tile west of Tolosa, easy for me to reach, but I never attacked the oil. If I would have pillaged the oil, Brennus might have never produced Battleships.

    I had wasted too much of my own commerce on espionage. I had the largest civ with 14 cities (before conquering Durocortorum). More cities became more spy buildings and more espionage points. I wasted my points on Brennus, who had too many points on me. I never gained city visibility on Brennus, and I never spent the points on spy missions. If I would have built fewer spy buildings and kept my commerce on science, not on espionage, then I might learned Industrialism early enough to stop Brennus's victory.

    2021-01-18 (1).png

    On my northern border, I gained only a few tiles from Gilgamesh, and lost a tile after Gilgamesh increased his Sumerian culture. My city of Nobamba, the hq of Creative Constructions, is still 57% Sumerian and only 42% Aztec. I had Oxford University in Clam-a-lot, Moai Statues in Taipei, and my Palace in Bulawayo.

    2021-01-18 (2).png

    Soria Moria had the Heroic Epic, the Ironworks, and the hq of Mining Inc (but there was never a Soria Moria Castle). I never built any other national wonders. I never had the National Epic, the Hermitage, nor Wall Street.

    I end the game in 1924 AD T344, during my 2nd golden age, at 1st in crop yield, 1st in production, and 1st in soldiers, but 4th in population and 4th (last) in commerce. I score 3950 points in the Hall of Fame. This is my 3rd highest score, only behind (2nd 10980) a Prince Cultural Victory in 2040 AD, and (1st 12752) a Monarch Cultural Victory in 1971 AD. I didn't win this game, but I had a good start, and I made a big civ. Most of my games don't last this long. I was correct to try to stop Brennus's victory, though I failed.
     
  17. Nick723

    Nick723 Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2020
    Messages:
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    Male
    Nice write up! I enjoyed reading along.

    Tough luck about the end result (especially with one turn to go) but sounds like you learned a lot for a better crack next time! Indeed, the narrow defeats often teach more than the resounding victories!
     
    Kernigh and krikav like this.

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