Nobles' Club CXLI: Augustus of Rome

[LordBobBree]

Well, settling on the stone looks like a good option. From there, workboat --> settler, bronzeworking --> ironworking.

From there... hopefully I can work out a build order.

EDIT: Doing this on Noble

 

[cseanny]

Deity and continuing.......

Spoiler :

Shaka is now my vassal and I've just bribed Nappy into war with Izzy. This was important because as we can see Cathy and I are about to be at war and Izzy was friendly with her. I'm not actually sure who's going to declare first......she has 24 units in her bordering city. That only leaves Boudica, the only potential AI Cathy can bribe against me. But seeing how I have more than 2X her total score that's not gonna happen. I've already got Cuirs and whipping from 12 cities and a 2T HE Capital she doesn't have a chance.

 

[Pangaea]

Finished the game. 1290AD Domination at Immortal.

Spoiler :

Quick recap: Went straight for IW, settled a 2nd city, Mids in 1440BC (Police State). Whipped and chop-built Praetorians from both cities non-stop and attacked Suleiman in 950BC with 4 Praets. Temp peaced in 550BC for Math and Alpha, then slowed to Currency. Killed off Suleiman in 225BC and bribed Shaka in on Napoleon, creating a full world war as the others were already at each other's throats.

Cathy was beating up Boudica and eventually capped her. With my economy and infrastructure in much better shape, with National Epic in Rome and Heroic Epic in Antium, I turned the attention to Shaka after he sabotaged some stuff in new capital Istanbul. Declared on him in 620AD, with a large stack of catas and Praetorians, and a never-ending train of others flowing to the front-lines from every city. Shaka vassaled in 860AD.

13-city Catherine with a vassal was next. Attacked from two direction with two super-medic protected stacks. Maces, Praetorians and Trebuchets were now flowing to the front lines, in addition to loads of failgold from the NE and capital cities (got 1216 for University of Sankore ). I destroyed her stack in the open, after she attacked me first, in my failed attempt to lure her into an empty captured city (have lots of CR2 and CR3 Praets and Maces after all). Moscow fell in 1110AD, but despite the below combat log, she would not budge, due to that stupid vassal mechanic.

Spoiler :

Not much else to do but to march on and take one city after the other, while the deluded woman thinks she is "doing fine". Finally, with only four cities left, she capitulates in 1180AD, in the same turn Boudica broke free.

Spoiler :

Not much left of her Empire, as you can see

For a long time I was unsure whether Liberalism could be gotten first, but I held onto Education (double bulbed) for ever so long, and eventually took

Spoiler :

CANNONS! Nice and shiny, and ready to kick some Celtic and Spanish behinds


1-turning City Raider III Cannons right out the gates of the Heroic Epic city... almost unfair

Winning odds on the initial Cannon, without bombardment.

Napoleon was attacking Isabella from the west as well, so when she was ready to give up in 1280AD, I took the capitulation. Only captured 2 cities from Isabella, but 9 from Catherine. Go figure...


Some screens from the end of the game.

Spoiler :

Victory screen


Wonders... we captured a lot.


Statistics. I did the math, and throughout the game I killed 218 units and lost 68, a ratio of 3.2 kills per loss. Pleased with that. Cannons at the end surely helped. Didn't lose a single one


The score. My best so far, although I've only completed 3(!) games since re-installing the game.


The Capital. I never got round to building either Oxford or Wall Street, but they would have been a good fit here, as Suleiman built me the Hindu Shrine. Built the Academy myself in ~350BC.


The Heroic Epic city Antium. Very, very basic infrastructure there. It was pretty much producing units non-stop since before the HE was built in 275AD. The city is 1-turning CR3 Cannons. Few of the built ones actually made it to the frontlines, but I upgraded a bunch of CR2-3 Trebuchets.

Thanks for the map. This was a whole lot 'o fun Praetorians are incredibly long-lasting. Was no problem using them at the game's end, although in fairness, you can almost attack with warriors after cannons do their dirty deeds

 

[rfcfanatic]

@Pangaea

Congrats on the win! That was very well done victory date on Immortal

 

[Pangaea]

Thanks Felt I got to the real warmongering a bit late, but once the wheels got rolling...

 

[LordBobBree]

3000 BC

Spoiler :

A village was kind enough to teach me to hunt, so that's nice. Also found ones that gave me gold and a map.

There were some cows to the south and gold to the east of that, as well as a seemingly-fertile river area, so perhaps I'll put my next city there.

Researched Bronze Working, and the resource popped up to the west of my capital. I'm not sure if I should settle there, food doesn't look too plentiful. I then turned to Iron Working.

In my capital, I built a workboat to build up a food source and give it a chance to reach 2 pop, then a settler, and started a scout to get to 3 pop.

Shaka showed up on turn 17. I'm not familiar with AIs, but his Aggressive trait makes me think he could be a problem. A scout from Catherine then visited me on turn 21. My warriors found Suleiman's territory to the west of me on turn 22.

 

[dalamb]

Learned a new piece of advice from several of you that might be worth passing on to other Nobles out here in the clear: IND+stone = fast 'mids = Police State = great warmongering civic.

Also 'mids + forge engineer = maybe a Great Engineer for rushing your next major wonder, if you're going that route (though you don't need a heck of a lot of wonders to conquer on Pangaea with Praets and a little luck).

 

[Izuul]

Deity 50 BC

Spoiler :

Suleiman got 400BC Feudalism and 200BC Machinery despite me hammering on him. I just made peace and left him with 1 barb city that i can't even find. I got Machinery + CoL in the peace treaty. My BPT is fairly crappy atm, but should improve when more cities come online. I got an early Oracle, but missed Mids by a few turns and got a bunch of FG from them. I could've gotten them fairly easily had I built them first rather than some Praets. Maybe should've gone for that, I don't know.

I was able to trade for marble from Shaka for sheep + crab and I've just started wonder spamming in Rome while building Praets in other cities. Have Parth and TGL so far, and might get MoM soon too. Plan to do some chain fail gold with HE and NE. I want to pick up Construction and Engineering and keep this ball rolling.

 

[LordBobBree]

Noble, 1800 BC

Spoiler :

I built my second city on the tile just above the nearest wheat field, but I'm wondering now if I should have placed it one tile lower. It would give me access to more food, but I'd lose a hill for mining. My first build there was a Warrior, followed by a barracks.

Iron-working completed, revealing iron juust outside my borders, so I should have access to that soon. As such, I started my first worker so I can actually make us of the iron. Then I went for a barracks for future warring, but I wonder if a second worker would have been wiser. Maybe in my second city instead. The barracks finished just as pottery was researched, so I started the grainery immediately.

From there, I went Wheel --> Pottery for graineries. After that, masonry for pyramids, and finally Agriculture.

I figure I should start a third city too, but I'm not sure when to build a setter, or where to set up the city yet.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

@LordBobBree

Spoiler :

Generally a worker should be your first build - assuming you sent a military unit along with your Settler. Barracks aren't really needed until you're ready to crank out your military.

Did you settle in place for your capital?

 

[LordBobBree]

@NobleZarkon

Spoiler :

I settled on the stone just above.

 

[marasaidw]

500AD update

Spoiler :

Still fighting Shaka, but it's just a matter of time now. I'm pickingup Feudalism so I can start caping people. Cathrine's been plotting and putting a unimpressive stack near my border. I think she may try to stab me when our treaty wears off.

Also Celts and Spain are fighting. I declined to jump in now, but I should have.

Also I think I'm going to be the final post on every page of this thread!

 

[Smilingrogue]

I finally got the monkey off my back and finished a game of Civ IV in something like six months. I was stubborn and decided to slog through on Immortal despite being way out of practice and the rust showed. I reloaded several times as I re-learnt the game. Finally won Diplomation in 1926 AD.

Spoiler :

Settled on stone and I think the failgold justified the decision.

Spoiler :

My primary motivation for wanting to settle on the stone was to land this big pointy thing with the top floor on fire:

Spoiler :

Kinda awkard to do that and Mids without settling on the stone.

Speaking of Pyramids

Spoiler :

Barbs ruined a nice capital spot I had planned. But I took the city they spawned and made it my cap.

Spoiler :

Not ideal but better than nothing.

Landed the Great Library in 75 AD

Spoiler :

Followed that up by winning Music

Spoiler :

Won Lib in 700 AD and took Nationalism with it

Spoiler :

Built the Taj and launched my second golden age to generate a Great Merchant.

Spoiler :

I had HAs chopped and ready to upgrade.

My rust shows as my first attack was a very late Cuir rush in 1110 AD

Spoiler :

Suleiman finally threw the towel in at 1230 AD

Spoiler :

Went after Shaka next

Spoiler :

Capitulated him in 1565 AD

Spoiler :

Cavalry were in circulation by this point.

Cathy was plotting war while I was at war with Shaka and I was the obvious target. She had a pathetic stack on my border but I couldn't afford to fight a two front war when the other end is manned by a warmongering unit spammer like Shaka. So I begged gold to stave off the inevitable attack which came in 1585 AD

Spoiler :

She milled about in my territory for exactly two turns. Turn one was when I killed her first stack. Turn two resulted in a second stack loss for her. I don't think I have ever seen a "-1 This war is going badly for us" diplo modifier before.

Spoiler :

After that little skirmish, it was time to get back to business. Boudica went next

Spoiler :

Nappy came a knocking and brought his vassal Izzy to the party. I had to gift an entire stack to Boudica and raise a second one in a hurry as Boudi was pretty beat up right from the start of the game and even spent several turns peace vassaled.

Spoiler :

Cathy jumped in voluntarily.

Spoiler :

I once again saw this coming and it was once again put down without much fan fare.

Spoiler :

Another "-1 This war is going badly for us" case.

At this point it was turning into a slog. I had as many cities as the two biggest civs in Nappy and Cathy and all three of us hated one another. Cathy was pushing culture and also gearing up for war a third time, obviously against me. So I figured if I can't hammer the point home, I will nuke it into her noggin and teched to Nukes and Paratroopers and she folded faster than a cheap deck chair.

Nuked Izzy into oblivion and Nappy out of contention and won the diplo election in 1926 AD

Spoiler :

This place is finally no longer empty.

Spoiler :

Thanks for the map, dalamb!

 

[Thrar]

1515AD conquest/domination, Immortal.

Spoiler :

Hit Suly in the BCs and reduced him to 2 cities near Cathy, made peace for tech.
Took some time to recover the economy and hit Shaka in 600AD or so with praets, cats and elephants, he had built the MoM for me too. Capped him after taking Ulundi and two or three other cities, but intact enough to tech at a decent rate and build a few troops. Boudica was next after a quick heal, she capped after losing 2 cities and getting her 3rd threatened.

Around that time I won Lib and took Chemistry - Cathy was close and Steel wasn't an option. So I self-teched steel and MilSci, then built grens and cannons for the showdown with Cathy, who had vassalled a very intact Isabella and the pitiful remains of Suly. I had my previous medieval stack in her west, my new stack of cannons/grens/draft muskets in the east, while Boudica was dealing with Izzy. Took a few turns dealing with Cathy's stack in the east while the western army group took a city and got upgraded.
After smashing her troops, taking out Suly and 3 of her cities while the western army group marched on Moscow, she capped - conveniently 2 turns before reaching Rifling.

Izzy was just mop-up, Boudica was making progress already. Merged the two armies near Moscow and marched west. Took 2 cities, upgraded some cavs and she capped.

Nappy was the last. He was the only one who never fought anyone and probably didn't have many troops. With 40 cannons and about 20 cavs, rifles, grens each, he wasn't expected to last long, and didn't. Sent ahead 15 cavs or so while the rest healed.
Turned out those were enough, they took two cities and smashed his pitiful 10 unit stack within 3 turns, making him cap. I faced a single rifle - he must have just gotten it just then.

 

[pigswill]

Emperor marathon uneventful 1ad.

Spoiler :

Captured a few barb cities in the southern jungle and razed them to stop Catwoman pinching them, barbs built the nice FP/horse city for me so kept that one. Stayed at 6 cities until I got currency and CoL.
In the meantime Shaka declared on Bod and Cats declared on Izzy. I declared on Cats 350bc, taken 5 of her cities so far. Declared a faux war on Bod to keep Shaka happy. Nappy has just declared on me (30bc) so I'm currently at war with 3 AIs! Just learned construction, picked up calendar in trade.
City maintenance with 11 cities on Emperor isn't trivial. Going for feudalism coz vassalage is pretty good for heavy warfare. Built pyramids and captured Glight from Cats.

 

[dalamb]

I think I may be missing something about warmongering that I'd like advice on. When you're building a Stack of Doom to invade an AI with, say, a dozen cities, it seems to me that you need to bring along

• enough CR-promoted units to conquer every last city, with losses? (even with praets, you lose a few)
• Enough Combat-promoted units to take out the opponent's Stack of Doom?
• enough garrison troops to guard each of those cities?

Or do you leave some of them empty to build their own garrison? I imagine a central location that could be counterattacked from many directions needs some kind of garrison, but maybe border cities don't? I'm asking because...

Spoiler :

I restarted to take advantage of the 'mids and Police State, and to build up Cumae (floodplains) as a cottage city before invading Sulieman, and now I'm at about the same place as last time with a significantly better economy (at least it runs positive at 20% slider, mostly thanks to the Hindu shrine in a world where Sillyman had been spreading Hinduism over a lot of the world).

From the point of the Ottoman conquest I rested up my troops, built a supermedic, and started invading Shaka with 12 praets. I got a border city and Ulundi, losing several praets to walled defenders, but then his Stack of Doom appeared -- about 5 units I think, including a catapult, with two more cats moving to join them, against my 7 remaining city raiders (two others left behind in the two captured cities). It was in the forested/hilly region around Ulundi, where they had good defences. I didn't feel like I could proceed at that point until/unless they got into a city where my CR promotions would give me a bit more advantage.

Eventually I bit the bullet, taking 5 to the next city (which had only 2 defenders) and leaving 2 CRs behind with the Combat I to defend Ulundi. They survived the counterattack -- but If I have to leave 3 praets in every captured city, my attack will stall pretty darned fast.

It seemed to me like I needed to wait for even more praets before starting the war -- most of which would be coming from my far-away eastern cities, Rome and Antium. And the longer I waited, the more need for praets along the southern border to defend against backstabbing by Cathy.

Am I being too much of a scaredy-cat?

 

[Pangaea]

Once you go to war, you need to focus pretty much 100% on that, until you know it's in the bag. That means you continue to whip and build units from your core, and send them to the frontlines. There should therefore be a steady stream of units flowing to the frontline from the core of your empire.

This is from a different game, in the same turn I capped the last AI, but you get the point. Had a chuckle to myself when I noticed that stream of units

Spoiler :

If you have a lot of CR units, as is likely in a Praet rush game, then it might actually be a good idea to leave a city empty, let him re-take it, and then wipe out his stack there. Obviously nice if you have some cats of your own to make it easier (as the cultural defence will pop right back up again), but with enough CR units this can be preferably to taking them out in the open - especially if his stack is camped in a forest.

I tried this in my game and it didn't work out, he attacked my stack instead, but experienced players say it's a good move, so maybe I'll try it again later.

Also, you don't really need city guardians in your core cities, unless they're really big. At some point you'll get enough trades to vastly increase the happiness cap, and as long as you don't whip it all away, you can move guardian Praets to the frontlines instead. This could perhaps mean 10 extra Praets, which is a small stack in itself.

Another idea is to not promote everybody along the CR line, but to for example take some on Combat+Shock, or some other useful combination, like pure Combat. Do the same when you have cats. Don't take all instantly up to CR. Those are useless if you want to take on troops in the open. Cats are of course extremely likely to die in attacks in the open, but extra collateral damage can at least do some damage, and it can be useful to add Accuracy for faster takedown of cultural defence too.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Everything Pangaea says is right - another tip I have picked up is take a worker or two along with your stack, chopping works even in anarchy so if there are a few forests around you can quickly chop out a basic garrison. Of course workers can easily be lost on the battlefield but there's not much you can do about that.

 

[elitetroops]

I think I may be missing something about warmongering that I'd like advice on. When you're building a Stack of Doom to invade an AI with, say, a dozen cities, it seems to me that you need to bring along

• enough CR-promoted units to conquer every last city, with losses? (even with praets, you lose a few)
• Enough Combat-promoted units to take out the opponent's Stack of Doom?
• enough garrison troops to guard each of those cities?

Don't promote your units until you are about to attack. If you are attacking a city, go CR, otherwise maybe something else. With siege support it doesn't matter very much what promotions your other units have and I often leave them unpromoted to use the promotion for healing. As Pangaea said, it's often best to take out opponents SoD in a city. If in the open, then cats are good to soften it up a bit first.

Your initial SoD only needs to be big enough to conquer the first city (and deal with the opposing SoD if one is around), as long as reinforcements arrive in time to grab the next one. Depending on how much stronger my units are compared to the opponent, you might sometime declare with very few units in position, as long as there are more moving toward the front line. Some units will die in a war, but you should be constantly pumping out more to replace those.

I mostly don't bring defenders with the first wave, they come a bit later. After taking a city there is usually at least a few attackers need to stay there to heal a couple of turns, so they can guard it while healing. When bringing defenders to the front line from a city further away, you can often get them faster by just moving them to the closest city, then moving out the defender from that city and so on. Say you want to bring a defender from city A to city D, which is 9 tiles away. On the way is cities B and C, distance 3 tiles between any 2 cities. Now you move your unit tfrom A to B in one turn, then the unit that was in city B can move to C the same turn, then the unit from city C can move to D. Effectively you just moved a defender from A to D in one turn. I don't really care what units are used as defenders, as long as it isn't someone I want on the attack. It doesn't matter much if it is a warrior or a longbow in most cases, because you can usually know if there is any chance of facing a counter attack. Most of the time there isn't. The AI usually only attacks the closest city, so anything further into your lands is safe. This often means that the AI would only attack the latest city you took from it, so your own SoD will be around taking out any attackers anyway.

 

[Pangaea]

Another slight movement tip is to first take the city, and then move the units coming up from behind. This will then become quicker due to cultural borders disappearing, and they can catch up with the frontline a little quicker. If you have enough of a stack this also means you can move out on the same turn, as you get double movement. Some will stay behind to heal, while the rest of the stack moves on to the next target. A supermedic with extra movement is great here, especially mounted (A chariot is usually safe). He can then stay behind in the captured city and quickly heal up units, then move up to the stack and help them out if it's needed. Just make sure he isn't left vulnerable in enemy territory, as the AI WILL attack him if given a chance.