Noble's Club XII-Elizabeth Revisited!

[Krick19]

Haha TMIT

Spoiler :

I'm such a noob at monarch, I generally just try to survive and get lots of land. All your advice will be great in totally streamlining and make my game stronger.

 

[Orzio]

Haha TMIT

Spoiler :

I'm such a noob at monarch, I generally just try to survive and get lots of land. All your advice will be great in totally streamlining and make my game stronger.

Spoiler :

You should probably have more baracks. You got lots of unimproved units that has been produced in cites witout baracks. I am curious why so many longbows in all your cites it looks almost like AI. -30 units upkeep feals like allot. It might be just my personality but I build army have hight maintance attack enemy maintance go down make peace and repeat.

 

[Krick19]

Spoiler :

You should probably have more baracks. You got lots of unimproved units that has been produced in cites witout baracks. I am curious why so many longbows in all your cites it looks almost like AI. -30 units upkeep feals like allot. It might be just my personality but I build army have hight maintance attack enemy maintance go down make peace and repeat.

Spoiler :

Yeah, that's a major problem. I never get the "perfect" production city I want and I never know what to settle for. So I build barracks haphazardly. I built a lot of longbows cuz I wasn't sure if I wanted to go on the offensive, but I knew I might be on the defensive.

 

[Anomander Rake]

I have now played to 950 BC

Turn report (edited)

Spoiler :

Logging by BUG Mod 1.0 [Build 915] (BUG Mod 3.0) (BtS 3.17)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 0/750 (4000 BC)
London founded
London begins: Worker (23 turns)
Research begun: Agriculture (12 Turns)

Turn 3/750 (3925 BC)
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): The Wheel
Tribal village results: technology

Turn 7/750 (3825 BC)
London's borders expand
Contact made: Ethiopian Empire
Tribal village results: scout

Turn 12/750 (3700 BC)
Research begun: Animal Husbandry (15 Turns)

Turn 18/750 (3550 BC)
Contact made: French Empire

Turn 23/750 (3425 BC)
London begins: Warrior (22 turns)

Turn 25/750 (3375 BC)
Hinduism founded in a distant land

Turn 27/750 (3325 BC)
Research begun: Bronze Working (18 Turns)

Turn 29/750 (3275 BC)
Contact made: Khmer Empire

Turn 30/750 (3250 BC)
Buddhism founded in a distant land

Turn 31/750 (3225 BC)
State Religion Change: Zara Yaqob(Ethiopia) from 'no State Religion' to 'Buddhism'

Turn 32/750 (3200 BC)
Contact made: Malinese Empire
A Pasture was built near London (Cows)

Turn 35/750 (3125 BC)
London begins: Barracks (19 turns)

Turn 44/750 (2900 BC)
A Mine was built near London (Gold)
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Bronze Working

Turn 45/750 (2875 BC)
Research begun: Mysticism (83 Turns)
London begins: Settler (150 turns)
Civics Change: NC XII(England) from 'Tribalism' to 'Slavery'

Turn 50/750 (2750 BC)
Research begun: Pottery (6 Turns)

Turn 56/750 (2600 BC)
Research begun: Hunting (3 Turns)

Turn 57/750 (2575 BC)
The whip was applied in London
London finishes: Settler

Turn 58/750 (2550 BC)
London finishes: Barracks

Turn 59/750 (2525 BC)
London begins: Warrior (6 turns)

Turn 60/750 (2500 BC)
Research begun: Archery (9 Turns)
A Mine was built near London

Turn 62/750 (2450 BC)
York founded
York begins: Monument (45 turns)

Turn 65/750 (2375 BC)
London grows to size 3

Turn 68/750 (2300 BC)
Research begun: Masonry (9 Turns)

Turn 69/750 (2275 BC)
A Cottage was built near London
London begins: Worker (10 turns)

Turn 70/750 (2250 BC)
Other Player Actions:
Civics Change: Louis XIV(France) from 'Tribalism' to 'Slavery'

Turn 74/750 (2150 BC)
Research begun: Writing (7 Turns)
After End Turn:
The whip was applied in London
The whip was applied in York
London finishes: Worker
York finishes: Monument

Turn 75/750 (2125 BC)
London begins: Granary (23 turns)
York begins: Work Boat (45 turns)

Turn 78/750 (2050 BC)
A Mine was built near York (copper)

Turn 81/750 (1975 BC)
Other Player Actions:
Civics Change: Suryavarman II(Khmer) from 'Tribalism' to 'Slavery'

Turn 82/750 (1950 BC)
A Camp was built near York (heffalumps)

Turn 83/750 (1925 BC)
Research begun: Sailing (7 Turns)
A Hamlet was built near London

Turn 88/750 (1800 BC) [18-Sep-2008 21:53:31]
London finishes: Granary

Turn 89/750 (1775 BC)
London begins: Axeman (13 turns)
Research begun: Mathematics (20 Turns)

Turn 93/750 (1675 BC)
Other Player Actions:
Civics Change: Zara Yaqob(Ethiopia) from 'Tribalism' to 'Slavery'

Turn 98/750 (1550 BC)
Axeman 1 of London (Axeman) promoted: City Raider I
London begins: Settler (15 turns)

Turn 104/750 (1400 BC)
Research begun: Iron Working (9 Turns)
London begins: Axeman (8 turns)
After End Turn:
The whip was applied in London
London finishes: Settler
Other Player Actions:
Civics Change: Mansa Musa(Mali) from 'Tribalism' to 'Slavery'

Turn 106/750 (1350 BC)
York begins: Granary (18 turns)

Turn 107/750 (1325 BC)
Axeman 2 of London (Axeman) promoted: Woodsman I
London begins: Library (34 turns)

Turn 114/750 (1150 BC)
Research begun: Construction (53 Turns)

Turn 115/750 (1125 BC)
After End Turn:
A Village was built near London

Turn 118/750 (1050 BC)
London begins: Worker (9 turns)
Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Zara Yaqob(Ethiopia) towards NC XII(England), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Game Report to 1000 BC

Spoiler :

The early Warrior and Scout (from the hut) were both killed in the wild so I haven't explored too far, but I've found everyone except the French...

I have a 3rd town two moves from settlement - going for the Iron to the west.


Everyone is annoyed with Mansa in the S - The French have asked me to stop trading with him - but I only have OB and refused.
I can't have the Elizabeth listening to a Frenchman...

I have had 3 events - rats, slave revolts and we discoved a special axe. All Axemen get Shock(?) + 25% vs Melee, which is nice.

The French built Stonehenge and the Ethiopians The Great Wall.

I am not sure where to place the 4th and 5th cities?

Any advice?

AR

Edit

put 2nd spoilers in.

Sorry, I assumed I was the last one playing. All the other posters seems a lot further into the game than me. I'll spoiler everything in future just in case.

 

[Groogaroo]

Any advice?

How about put your game write up in a spoiler box wouldn't want to spoil it for other players.

Concerning future city placements, I'm playing through my second attempt at the moment so it might not be best to follow my dotmaps! I've played to 410 BC, my dotmap and some details are in the spoiler below incase you want to compare regarding 4th & 5th cities.

Spoiler :

WIth settling the south I guess it depends on how far your willing to go! I decided on this run through to settle as deep towards the other AI as possible, heres a crude dotmap... I hate the strategy layer! Hastings and coventry were my 4th and 5th cities.

 

[Krick19]

Anomander:

Please put your reports in spoilers. We don't want to ruin the game for others by posting leaders and such

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Just as a note to all players, both barracks and walls add to power rating, which means they're viable in the power respect and they don't cost maintenance. Although I don't rate them the same as granary/courthouse in terms of "buildings that go in every city", I often put barracks in the majority if not all of my cities. This allows for FAST massing of troops through the whip/draft times (and rush buy if you're like me), and also keeps shaka and monty off your back in the BC's. Even Snaaty advocates early barracks in his "guide to emperor+", so this isn't just coming from me .

Walls are less useful than barracks game-long but they're worth noting for this purpose, especially if you have stone and want to abuse some hammer overflow for gold. Since the AIs have a fixation with *very* slowly bombarding walls down with its 2-3 catapults, they can buy you some time too, or if you flank/kill that siege, you can watch the AI suicide into them. Far less typical/useful than barracks, but still good to keep in mind.

 

[r_rolo1]

And barracks also give under certain civics

 

[KingMorgan]

Walls are must for Border cities, as said the AI loves to have a bombard, even if they could just roll into a poorly defended city.

@TMIT

Spoiler :

Just read your write up, very surpised you didn;t axe rush Zara. In this save does AI start with Archery on Emp? Or did you not get copper connected in time?

 

[dubrown]

Walls are must for Border cities, as said the AI loves to have a bombard, even if they could just roll into a poorly defended city.

I disagree. Walls can be useful in some cases, as with celts for instance as the UB and for spain as it leads to citadels. But, in most cases, I skip the walls. Even if it's not many hammers in a wall, the hammers is better used for other things.

The best defense is as always to never let the AI get so close so the walls will come to play. How to manage this in border cities? Fast moving task force behind the line, offensive troops and siege units amongst the defenders in border cities.

And do aim at building up culture in border cities, the cultural defense last all game, the walls defensive power is obsolete when gunpowder arrives. So to sum things up, cultural defense is better, offensive troops to counter AI attacks. Only build walls when in great need and the the whip is your friend, or if you want the castle for some reason, like the spypoints or traderoutes.

 

[Orzio]

Best defense is attacking the enemy and owning them

 

[Groogaroo]

I kinda got carried away with my second attempt and played right through to 800AD

So here's my report, things are going rather well this time round.

2nd Attempt - Monarch/Epic - 800AD

Spoiler :

My opening strategy this time round was to settle to cities close to the capital towards Zara as early as possible and use them alomg with my capital to pump out settlers/workers/axes. I also made a point of deviating from the Alpha > Currency > Col > CS route picking up Iron working before rexing stalled my research. Just finished teching Civilservice and I'm on my way to paper.

The tech situation is looking good...

I aggresivley rexed the southern jungle peacefully settling 10 cities and still have space within my borders for a couple more. Economy dived for a long time but things are looking okay now.

The British Empire

And my cities, beaker output doesn't seem so great for this stage of the game, but enough to hold onto a lead over the AI.

I also made the decision to plan my first war a lot earlier using the resources around me this time rather than ones I didn't have! So I will be attacking Zara with Ellies/Cats/Axes. I'm looking good on power with positive ratings against all my neighbours.


I've built up a nice little stack and have another mini stack almost ready.

My crude battle plan!!! Which is actually probably more confusing than anything else!

Plan to take Lalbela then Gondar, then a second stack will raze Yeha while my mian stack heals. The combined stack then marches on to Aksum.


Religion is interesting, with all the civs I've met devided between Hinduism or Buddism. I'm planning the turn before attacking Zara switching to Buddism to keep Louis, Sury & Gilga happy. Both mansa & Zara are hindu's. Mansa's looking quite pathetic in my game and will probably be my next target after Zara.

I did wonder about attcking Mansa first he's so weak! But my gur feeling is take out Zara before he gets longbows plus his cities are closer to my capital and shouldn't hurt my economy too much.

Phew... Thats it for now, I definatley have used my previous knowledge to play the game out better this time but its a great way to learn what works at this level. I've never rexed so far and so hard in my games, I actually dropped right down to 10% slider for a while but I'm in such a strong position now, only I could mess it up!

If anyone has any feedback on my current plan, or just thinks I'm missing a trick, let me know.

 

[KingMorgan]

I disagree. Walls can be useful in some cases, as with celts for instance as the UB and for spain as it leads to citadels. But, in most cases, I skip the walls.

I agree, i've only ever built about 5 walls, but for a noble/price player i think they are essential. If nothing else they will buy you time with an AI stack outside your city, walls could give you 3+ turns to bolster your defence. Unless i am running HR then i'll usually have one or two defenders in a city. Partly because the AI is so predictable, you can pretty much bank on it attacking a specfic city, bombading for 2/3 turns before attacking.

@Googaroo

Post a save mate and i'll take a look.

 

[dubrown]

@groogaroo

Spoiler :

Just did a quick browse of your post, looks pretty good. Your battleplan seems good enough, but one thing, If my eyes doesn't fool me, isn't Addis Abeba the holy city for confucianism? (looks to me there's a little star on the religionsymbol). If it's a wide spread religion (looks less likely) it may be a good idea to keep the city for a possible shrine. But on the other hand, if you care nothing for confu, there's no shrine built and you'll not get many prophets, then you might as well raze it, it doesn't look very good otherwise.

 

[Groogaroo]

Good spot dubrown! I hadn't noticed that!

Hmmm, that leaves me with some questions.

Spoiler :

Now I don't believe confu has spread much so I don't care too much about that aspect but there are diplo penalties for razing a holy city.

Will I suffer -diplo with every leader? or is it only with leaders who have it as their state religion?

Anyone know how severe the diplo hit would be?

 

[dubrown]

Good spot dubrown! I hadn't noticed that!

Hmmm, that leaves me with some questions.

Spoiler :

Now I don't believe confu has spread much so I don't care too much about that aspect but there are diplo penalties for razing a holy city.

Will I suffer -diplo with every leader? or is it only with leaders who have it as their state religion?

Anyone know how severe the diplo hit would be?

Spoiler :

I'm not sure but my guess would be a diplohit only with those with that religion as statereligion. It sounds illogical that for example a buddist would care if a confu holy city would get razed. And in your game confu isn't spread much and noone but zara would object and that's only for razing the city itself. But then, he's dead soon so who cares...

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Walls are must for Border cities, as said the AI loves to have a bombard, even if they could just roll into a poorly defended city.

@TMIT

Spoiler :

Just read your write up, very surpised you didn;t axe rush Zara. In this save does AI start with Archery on Emp? Or did you not get copper connected in time?

Spoiler :

Although I didn't axe rush traditionally, I put several axes over there to screw him and make him really weak (his expansion was slow, he massed useless archers, and the axe camping greatly delayed his improving tiles, so he worked unimproved tiles in new cities for turns on end). I knew Sury and MM were nearby, but not their exact positions at first. I absolutely, positively wanted the land to my south (especially the gems and other resources), while at the same time slowing Zara down so that if I beat him I'd have a commanding empire size (this turned out to be true, I had 12 cities when declaring on MM, but with a fish city or two could have made 15+ after killing Zara).

Also note that although it didn't work out for me, a sword/axe war is often quite efficient compared to an axe rush (something I learned a bunch of Immortal U's ago after watching ABigCivFan play that one). I needed IW anyway for the gems, but was hoping for iron. No dice until after I'd functionally beaten Zara . Anyway, swords, even a CR I sword, have the odds against archers in cities with 20% defense on flatlands. The player is far less likely to suffer major losses taking cities with them. Combined with my desire for *very* aggressive land grab, this "axe harass and expand" approach worked out for me. Note, however, that to avoid a I very aggressively copied Sury's religion (first getting him into confuc, later switching to buddhist to follow him).

My best unit was the knight . Very fun. At the end though my research was looking damn good despite having 5 empire wide libraries because I made FP in djenne. If I'd whipped out some stock exchanges/markets/grocers, teched democracy, and then rush bought whatever I needed, this would have been runaway very shortly .

Edit: You only get diplo penalties for razing holy cities with civs that have it as their state religion. I still recommend against razing holy cities outside of RPC angles though. Once you have a decent-sized empire you can put a secondary production city on alt-click missionary, and fill your continent with the religion. Then the holy city is a market/grocer/bank away from 50 GPT or more.

 

[GGS]

1600 AD debriefing

Platform 1200 looked fine until 1220 AD when it appeared that Elizabeth might well have to land the Hindenburg on the deck of the Titanic.

Spoiler :

The three known empires that I wasn't at war with were cautious, the third to last of Zara Yaqob's cities had just been liberated, feudalism had been gained and a few troops had received their orders to march toward the SE. Then, Mansa Musa takes on the Ethiopians as a vassal, thereby declaring war on England while my two border cities were weakly defended. When its two against one, three or four against one is rather invited. So, a Great Artist was used to start a Golden Age, England converted to the Hinduism of Suryavarman II and Louis XIV and the military building programme was expanded.
By 1290 AD England purchased a 'pleased' from France; an Ethiopian city and a Malinese city were under siege. By 1340 AD the cities were taken, a navy was started in the West, Suryavarman was "pleased", the economy was headed south, so, with banking but two turns away peace was exchanged for one of Mansa Musa's techs and the switch was made to bureaucray and organized religion. Money, money, money led to Liberalism in 1560 AD, the Taj Mahal in 1585 AD and Economics in 1590 AD. In an early fifteenth century tour of France a horse archer viewed the work boats of Gilgamesh and Hammurabi.
The current state of affairs? England leads in production, soldiers and land, the economy is adequate, the tech lead is measurable, the fellow Hindus are "friendly". A Great Merchant has been dispatched to Paris and there are three Great People in reserve. Mansa Musa just opened his borders so a pre-invasion scouting party is at work and a marine force is ready to take the last Ehtiopian city.

Victory view? Unclear. Advice is always welcomed.

Spoiler :

By the time England can eliminate its two old foes there will be a Grand Army as the tech path is rifling then steel. Unfortunately, S/L and G/H are friendly pairs improbably pleased with each other. Domination requires some sort of a break-up as would a UN Diplomatic Victory. Logic, at this point, suggests preparing for Domination while keeping the Space Race as a fall-back.

 

[Groogaroo]

Well I've played through this 2nd run a bit more things seem to be going well although the game is starting to get more complicated

2nd Attempt - Monarch/Epic - 1660 AD

Spoiler :

Okay so at my last update I was about to go to war with Zara with Axes/Ellies/Cats which went okay he has a couple of offshore cities so I just kicked him off the continent then sued for peace for every tech he had. I decided to keep war rolling seeing as I had a stack sitting around, and moved my troops towards Mansa who was woefully weak.

Just before Dowing on mansa I grabbed Steel from Lib so upgraded any trebs I had to cannons and ripped him apart. As with Zara Mansa had an offshore city so again once I kicked him off the continent I sued for peace accidently vasseling him in the process! I hate vassels! Really have to check what I'm signing when I sue for peace! The war with Mansa was very plentiful netting me, two shrined holy cities & the pyramids.

Heres the British Empire @ 1660 AD

The political situation in the game is now interesting with lots of vassels and colonies popping up all over the place.

There are 4 main players in the game,


Me, master of Mansa

Gilgamesh, master of Mao & Huayna

Sury, master of Louis

Hammy, master of Cyrus


Here's a look at the leader board,

I'm still top of the board in both score & power which is good and the tech situation looks okay too.

Relations

and, Glance screen

My plan is to go to war with Sury next then move onto his vassel Louis, as Louis holds the Buddist holy city & shrine which must be netting close to 60 Gpt pre multipliers. I've just finished teching rifles and my CR3 maces have been upgraded. Then I'll build up a Navy a go for Gilgamesh to hopefully net me a Domi win.

Does that seem like a sound plan?

 

[Groogaroo]

Hmmm... gone pretty quiet over here, anyone still playing?

I'm still slogging away at this game! Feels like I've been playing it forever, but determined to end it soon!

2nd Attempt Update - Monarch/Epic - 1758 AD

Spoiler :

At the end of my last round I was preparing to attack sury (Louis Master) with Redcoats & Cannons Vs his Longbows & Maces.

Heres a quick reminder of the situation...

Sury's land

and my two stacks preparing to invade

Now I planned to take 2 cities from louis then use one stack to take/raze Louis cities neighbouring my empire whilst the other keeps moving through Surys terriotory.

All went fairly well. Louis renounced Sury's as his master once I had taken enough of his land, I sued for peace with france and focus all my forces on wiping out Sury. He has only one good city left at this stage the rest are all pretty much Tundra/Snow cities.

After taking Ankor Thom I decided to redeclare on Louis as I had enough troops to stage a two front war, I really want Frances Buddist shrine.

Suddenly Sury vassels to Gilgamesh. I hate Vassels! Suddenly I at war with just about every civ in the game! Opps!

I've just started my attack on france but I pretty much own our starting continent, just a few more cities to take.

Heres The remaining cities

Victory Screen

I'm already a fair my into the domination figures, still waiting for some borderpops/revolts

Here's a pic of the land belonging to Gilgamesh/Hammurabi.

Question is just go for domination or Conquest? I've never won by conquest before so I'm a bit unsure the best way to go about it... Try to vassel everyone through capitulation? There are a lot of colonies/vassels about so that might make it harder.

And the best way to go about domination?

Take out the big landmass belonging to Gilga/Hammy or pic off the island cities belonging to their vassels?

I'm really suffering with huge War weariness and am running the science slider @10% due to having to up the culture to combat it.

Any tips on going forward from here would be great.