Nobody likes me :(

[blackcatatonic]

Just wondering if I'm the only one, but I'm struggling with diplomacy a lot more than I expected - it's very difficult to make or maintain friends. About 2/3 way through my first game and everyone is unfriendly or hates me - even those with whom I only have positive modifiers! The AI seems to be very quick to respond to actions that go against their agendas, but very slow to become friendlier in response to positive modifiers. For instance, when I met Tomyris we were following the same government (she has Ideologue as her hidden agenda, so I got a nice positive modifier from that), and she let me establish an embassy so that gave me another positive modifier. Then she changes government and instantly goes to 'unfriendly'. I change to the same government and many turns later she is still 'unfriendly' despite the total absence of any negative modifiers, even with both agendas revealed.

I've also noticed that across all players (it's a huge map so there are what, 12 civs?) there is a grand total of ONE 'friendly' relationship. It's not just me - the AI civs all hate each other as well!

I know the AI is usually capricious and inscrutable and I do appreciate seeing WHY they dislike me - but it seems the calculations are off, as chasing positive modifiers seems to have no impact whatsoever. It's not such a big deal given that you don't need DoFs to trade with gold any more, but it feels unrealistic and frankly a little saddening to be unable to strike up a friendly relationship with any AI that lasts for more than 10 turns, and to have them take a dislike to you for literally no reason at all. (I should note that in this game I've declared war once, with a casus belli, and taken one city, and those actions were a very long time ago so warmonger penalty is completely gone).

 

[King Jason]

It's been a common complaint. I haven't had the same experience; even the A.I. always seem to have about 1-2 friends in an 8 player game. Very often I manage to make two, or at least one ally over the course of the game. This has been consistent between King to Deity.

As to what's going on under the hood, I'm not sure I can say.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I have a similar experience. Despite being very peaceful, only 2 civs are friendly to me, bit they are unwilling to go for a declaration of Friendship or alliance. Everyone else hates each other.

 

[DemonMaster]

In my current game I am best friends with two civs and "best enemies" with two others. The other civs goes from neutral to dislike. In my first game I had an alliance with one, was friends with another and hated by the rest. Sounds fair to me (so far).

 

[DJ_Tanner]

I can maintain a few friendly relationships, but I have to actively work at it. You MUST hit their primary agenda and helps to focus on those who have a secondary agenda that helps as well. Another thing I have found is that its pretty hard to turn anyone that has a negative first impression around, so I tend to ignore those best I can. Be sure to have trade routes (I think they only count after they have finished) and open borders and those can usually get you over the top with someone on the fence.

 

[kampori]

Same experience here.
Every game so far:

early game; friendly with everyone

medieval-renaissance; unfriendly/denounced by all except one Civ (weirdly has been Norway in each game. My only staunch ally throughout all of my playthroughs)

late game; a good mixture. 2 allies, 2 friendly, 2 neutral, 4 unfriendly, 1 at war

On King difficulty. I have never once declared a war. Been declared on twice, each time I end the war by liberating city states or other Civ's conquered cities. I clear every barb camp on every continent.
I trade with everyone who wants it, and am quite generous.
Frankly by all rights everyone should love me.

But through most of the game I am denounced by practically everyone

 

[Acken]

I kill a guy at the start of the game before meeting anybody then when I meet everyone they all hate me. Great. And the guy I killed was Rome launching a 10 warriors attack on me on turn 20... who's the warmonger again ?

I didn't think diplomacy could be worse than civ5.

 

[Nefelia]

I've only managed one friendly relationship in the 5 or so games I've played. But then, I tend to be a remorseless warmonger, so I've gotten used to being disliked or hated by every other civ.

I kill a guy at the start of the game before meeting anybody then when I meet everyone they all hate me. Great. And the guy I killed was Rome launching a 10 warriors attack on me on turn 20... who's the warmonger again ?

I didn't think diplomacy could be worse than civ5.

There are no warmonger penalties in the ancient era. You are most likely being disliked due to their agendas. I've found that I can at least delay their dislike by refusing their delegations.

 

[darko82]

Agendas That's how they work.

 

[Acken]

There are no warmonger penalties in the ancient era. You are most likely being disliked due to their agendas. I've found that I can at least delay their dislike by refusing their delegations.

Nah. Early game was an exageration. I took one city in classical and 2 in medieval. Now everybody denounces me even if i met them after. Doesnt matter because the ai is pathetic but im annoyed by the denounce spam.

 

[pietro1990]

To be honest its actually easy to keep friendly with AI just don't ingore their main agenda's. And you can allready tell a little bit what their hidden agenda's are if they come to you saying something.

The major problem with diplomacy is the warmonger penalty.

 

[isau]

The agendas are a game ruining disaster. They may as well not even exist, because the AI just spends the entire game mad at you.

Take for example Kongo. Kongo is supposed to like you in you spread your religion to him, and be annoyed if you don't. Fair enough. I'm playing Arabia, I get my prophet and found a religion, immediately launch a Missionary. Kongo is just a few tiles away, but THE NEXT TURN he denounces me.

Meanwhile all the other AIs are angry for reasons they don't care to disclose. Occasionally one of them will pop in and say why, but it doesn't matter because its always something I have little control over.

First mod I'm going to install is something to remove the random agendas. They are terrible. I will see if the historical agendas can be salvaged.

 

[DemonMaster]

Also, do proper peace negotiations. Include cities that you have conquered in the negotiations (cede or return). That helps.

 

[isau]

I've only managed one friendly relationship in the 5 or so games I've played. But then, I tend to be a remorseless warmonger, so I've gotten used to being disliked or hated by every other civ.

I managed one friendly relationship and I'm pretty sure it's a bug. It was Catherine de Medici. She claimed she admired my spy activities. Well, I had no spies. Nobody did because they hadn't been discovered yet. She also happened to roll Civilized (likes people who clear Barbarians) so that was a fairly easy one to satisfy. The others, particularly anything connected to culture/gold/faith are a nightmare at higher difficulties.

I defended the game prior to release but the diplomacy AI is truly, truly bad. At least as bad as Civ V was in Vanilla. I'm still playing it, kind of, but hunting and pecking at the XML to try to patch outrageous imbalances. I'll see if I can find some way to fix the agenda system so it's not so schizo.

 

[Chiyo]

The agendas are a game ruining disaster. They may as well not even exist, because the AI just spends the entire game mad at you.

Take for example Kongo. Kongo is supposed to like you in you spread your religion to him, and be annoyed if you don't. Fair enough. I'm playing Arabia, I get my prophet and found a religion, immediately launch a Missionary. Kongo is just a few tiles away, but THE NEXT TURN he denounces me.

Some agendas seem to work strangely as they take effect instantly. I had the same experience with Kongo. I found a religion and the next turn he complains that I have not shared it with him. That's stupid. Also I was denounced on a chieftain game very early by Cleopatra as after some turns I only had two warriors. I had built a warrior and a scout until then but nothing else... The Ai should judge behaviour which means it would need to give you some time to do something to dislike before they dislike you.

 

[pietro1990]

hidden agenda's can sometimes interfere with their original agenda. For example take cleopathra:

her historic agenda she likes civilizations who have high military and will ally with them
but she will hate people that have low military

her hidden agenda actullay can get her angry at you if you have a huge army .

same goes for japan and paranoia.

 

[isau]

Honestly what I think may need to happen is the "hate" part of a lot of these agendas be toned down. Or be something that is additive. E,g, Kongo grows a little more annoyed every turn you don't bring your religion to him. Cleo gets a little more annoyed every time your military sucks. The way it's working right now is unreasonable. I wouldn't mind if a few civs acted this way, but when it's all of them it's overwhelming and ridiculous.

From hunting in the XML I can say that many of the agendas trigger based on how long they've known you. It seems to be either 10 or 30 turns in most cases.

 

[Morningcalm]

Phillip II got annoyed that I converted ONE of his cities. Instant -12 even after I promised not to do it again, and indeed didn't send missionaries his way.

 

[AriochIV]

It's very much like Civ V in the diplomacy department. If you play aggressively, everyone will hate you. There aren't really any levers to push on to improve relations once they (inevitably) go bad.

 

[Morningcalm]

And yet, they barely opposed my religion victory. No one declared a holy war on me, ever, even though I had fewer soldiers than all but one of the AI (Victoria, who fell to Trajan in the first 100 turns).