Can't expand fast enough and no free workers and cities with population and buildings from AI, although free settlers and workers from huts may help to make up for it. Corporations spread is effectively 2 times slower and nothing can be done about it. May be, it is possible but nobody has tried hard enough.
Non-Incan Deity BC Space
- Thread starter Anysense
- Start date
Can't expand fast enough and no free workers and cities with population and buildings from AI, although free settlers and workers from huts may help to make up for it. Corporations spread is effectively 2 times slower and nothing can be done about it. May be, it is possible but nobody has tried hard enough.
Tested raising domination limit as described by @Kaitzilla https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/civ-iv-hall-of-fame-update-discussion.668880/#post-16066472
It is easy to organize and seems to be reliable.
If unnable to proceed immediately because units need healing or you messed up and nobody is talking to you, its OK to make a break as long as you do not possess any cities which you intend to use for creating new colonies (you must not have your culture there).
I found that gifting 1 city to a master and recapturing it usually is sufficient to make them talk on the next turn, better use 2 to be sure.
When a new civ is eliminated it may stay at the top of the list of dead civs or drop to the bottom. The latter means that once you make AI create another colony the dead civ will disappear and the domination limit will not rise. So, it is inadvisable to destroy new civs.
WastinTime explaining his approach
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...-10-year-veteran.574724/page-32#post-14815011
It is easy to organize and seems to be reliable.
If unnable to proceed immediately because units need healing or you messed up and nobody is talking to you, its OK to make a break as long as you do not possess any cities which you intend to use for creating new colonies (you must not have your culture there).
I found that gifting 1 city to a master and recapturing it usually is sufficient to make them talk on the next turn, better use 2 to be sure.
When a new civ is eliminated it may stay at the top of the list of dead civs or drop to the bottom. The latter means that once you make AI create another colony the dead civ will disappear and the domination limit will not rise. So, it is inadvisable to destroy new civs.
WastinTime explaining his approach
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...-10-year-veteran.574724/page-32#post-14815011
crashmon
Warlord
@Imploding will you be streaming again, I have watched some of your playthroughs, but not seen you on civ for a while on your channel
I really like to tag along in this detailed an through described gamebreaking game! Good luck!
Thank you! I'm sorry for this delay, but I've been experiencing occasional BSODs on my new PC and so far failed to find the cause. Hard to pin it on something when it just happens randomly about once in 10 hours. At least I have 6 cores / 12 threads instead of just 3 and can play with OpenMP a bit.
Imploding
Warlord
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2015
- Messages
- 220
happysheep
Chieftain
Is
dis thread deadThere might be another recording in the not so distant future
Not really, but until I figure out how to fix my BSOD problem, I can't go on. May be, it has something to do with windows not being updated? The trouble is that windows update simply does not work on this computer. I've been using the same copy for several years and it has never happened before. I suppose I could download every patch separately from MS web site...
They stopped supporting win7 more than a year ago, but the last time I reinstalled windows was in november, and I can't remember any difficulties updating it.
Tried UpdatePack7R2, it did bring Windows up to date alright, but I got another BSOD on the next day all the same. Can't be overheat or inept overclocking, everything is cold and working with default settings. I suppose, it could be just new hardware being a bit unstable with old OS. May be, I will simply buy another SSD and use my old PC for Civ.
Blue screens of death are a hardware problem I think, usually a faulty stick of RAM.
If you have windows 10, try right clicking on the start button -> Search -> Windows Memory Diagnostic.
Run the app and let it restart the computer and check.
I had a bad stick once, and I took it out causing the blue screens to go away.
But the computer was hella-slow running on only 1 stick of ram for a week.
I think a bad power supply can also occasionally cause BSOD due to undervoltages, but it will also cause the screen to go black and the computer to reset randomly too.
**Edit**
The Windows Memory Diagnostic App could make the results easier to read.
Right click on the start button -> Search -> Event Viewer -> Windows Logs (top left) -> System
Then on the window to the right is a box called Find ... so click on that.
Type MemoryDiagnostics-Results
Double click on the result and it should say what kind of memory errors it found.
I tried it on my computer and it said:
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I run Windows Memory Diagnostic and then TestMem5 and they found nothing. There are only two memory profiles available in BIOS: one is 2400MHz/1.2V and the other 3000MHz/1.35V. CPU only supports up to 2933MHz, so I'll have to stick to 2400. This seems like very odd restriction. May be, updating BIOS could allow more manual control. I never got into this overclocking stuff.
Anyway, I have already ordered new SSD. Might as well check the old one, it has been in use for over nine years after all. I also need to start getting a few things back into my own memory to resume playing.
Anyway, I have already ordered new SSD. Might as well check the old one, it has been in use for over nine years after all. I also need to start getting a few things back into my own memory to resume playing.
I counted worked tiles with 
/
on them to assess the impact of the Golden Age which is coming in a few turns (t215 or 216). There is 161 population in 58 cities, currently working 204 tiles, of which 107 have and 175 have . GA would add 282
/
is started now. That would have brought revenue from current -30 to roughly +250 gpt. This is not quite as much as I need.
Feudalism and Machinery are both worth 3185 (Feudalism is bit less brecause Darius has it), Guilds is 4550, Banking - 3185. That is 14105 in total. At 250 bpt it will take 57 turns. Since I have only one library and no buildings the gold/beakers convertion rate is almost exactly 1:1. Hence, for the purpose of my calculations =.
After taking Chicago I had 3215, there will be some 3000 from MoM. Then there will be conquest gold. This is difficult to estimate, lets go with 1000. I also expect some 1000 worth of Feudalism Darius. That would cover 8215, cutting research time to 24 turns. This is still too slow: 215+24=239 turn Banking. I knew that with all the misfortunes and more focus on expansion than I initially planned Banking would be pushed to later dates but t239 is ridiculous. It has to be no later than t230.
So far I haven't considered growth and expansion. Most of my 58 cities can grow 1 size about every 5-7 turns, adding roughly 40*18/6=120 population by t230. Some 20 pop will be conquered, perhaps more. And there will be some whipping. I definitely need a couple more galleys, a few settlers, workers and courthouses. That will require about 20 2-pop whips. That brings rough estimate of increase of popultion to 120+20-40=100.
Some of these new citizens will work 3
00 farms (mostly in GP farms that need fast growth), but most tiles will have or or both. There are some unused cottages and Calendar resources as well as a few golds, irons etc, ignored because I'm currently focusing on growth. I think 3 to 4 per pop on average is a reasonable expectation. Thats 300-400 more per turn by t230. With linear projection it means (250+(250+350))/2=425 average gpt, or (14105-8215)/425=14 turn of research (t229 Banking).
There is still Moai. With a bit of chopping I could have some 2000 from it and shave of a few more turns, but would leave Taj the only wonder convenient for Wonderbread. I think I'd rather keep it for latish but more massive failgold. I might not even have enough workertuns for that.
A few pics just to remind where the game was left. Comparing Financial to Organized: the latter saves 88 in maintenance, the former would add some 70. It seems that Organized is stronger before even courthouses and expensive civics come into play. Of course, I still have less than 3 pop per city.
/ on them to assess the impact of the Golden Age which is coming in a few turns (t215 or 216). There is 161 population in 58 cities, currently working 204 tiles, of which 107 have and 175 have . GA would add 282/ is started now. That would have brought revenue from current -30 to roughly +250 gpt. This is not quite as much as I need.Feudalism and Machinery are both worth 3185
(Feudalism is bit less brecause Darius has it), Guilds is 4550, Banking - 3185. That is 14105 in total. At 250 bpt it will take 57 turns. Since I have only one library and no buildings the gold/beakers convertion rate is almost exactly 1:1. Hence, for the purpose of my calculations =.After taking Chicago I had 3215
, there will be some 3000 from MoM. Then there will be conquest gold. This is difficult to estimate, lets go with 1000. I also expect some 1000 worth of Feudalism Darius. That would cover 8215, cutting research time to 24 turns. This is still too slow: 215+24=239 turn Banking. I knew that with all the misfortunes and more focus on expansion than I initially planned Banking would be pushed to later dates but t239 is ridiculous. It has to be no later than t230.So far I haven't considered growth and expansion. Most of my 58 cities can grow 1 size about every 5-7 turns, adding roughly 40*18/6=120 population by t230. Some 20 pop will be conquered, perhaps more. And there will be some whipping. I definitely need a couple more galleys, a few settlers, workers and courthouses. That will require about 20 2-pop whips. That brings rough estimate of increase of popultion to 120+20-40=100.
Some of these new citizens will work 3
00 farms (mostly in GP farms that need fast growth), but most tiles will have or or both. There are some unused cottages and Calendar resources as well as a few golds, irons etc, ignored because I'm currently focusing on growth. I think 3 to 4 per pop on average is a reasonable expectation. Thats 300-400 more per turn by t230. With linear projection it means (250+(250+350))/2=425 average gpt, or (14105-8215)/425=14 turn of research (t229 Banking).There is still Moai. With a bit of chopping I could have some 2000
from it and shave of a few more turns, but would leave Taj the only wonder convenient for Wonderbread. I think I'd rather keep it for latish but more massive failgold. I might not even have enough workertuns for that.A few pics just to remind where the game was left. Comparing Financial to Organized: the latter saves 88
in maintenance, the former would add some 70. It seems that Organized is stronger before even courthouses and expensive civics come into play. Of course, I still have less than 3 pop per city.Spoiler Overview :
Spoiler Overview 2 :
Spoiler Tech, Statistics, Finance :
Qactus
Romani ite domum
I always thought it would be such a cool feature if you could swap leaders in Worldbuilder just to compare these effects. Like for example, just out of curiosity I could check at a glance what would my economy look like had I picked Darius instead of Cyrus.... Comparing Financial to Organized: the latter saves 88
I've been thinking of a way to weigh Wonderbread angainst keeping population, more specifically about Moai. Is it important enough to keep it or should I use it to shave a few turns to Banking, gaining about 400 per turn from Mercantilism? Since we are considering Moai the most common work for another citizen is a 24 coast (Colossus and GA). On the other hand, one pop is 90 or 180, assuming there is no Organized Religion and forge. Most of the whipping will take place during slavery window around t240 (second GP for a 2-GP goldane Age will be out on t238), so I will be in OR at the time. But that is only for 5 turns, then back to Caste and Pacifism, making OR's influence on failgold negligible.
Population can't be directly converted into hammers, you have to actually build something. I think the best way of evaluating Wonderbread is using settlers and workers. I will need them in any case, so the hammers (or population) spent on them can be removed from equation. Whips with max overflow are easily arranged, basically you choose between using minimum pop to produce them or whip away 1 more pop to convert it into 90. In short, whenever you choose between whipping a worker at 29/120 or at 30/120 it is a choice between converting 1 unit of population into 90 and keeping it.
Now it is easy to compare gaining 180 soon or receiving 4 per turn over time. Extra population means higher maintenance, some citizens may have better tiles than 24 to work and there will be some multipliers for , but it won't significantly alter the picture. It will take roughly 180/4=45 turns to for a citizen to pay back, that is from t240 to t285. Mining inc. is expected on t280 or sooner, so it does not look like this latish Wonderbread will help me very much. I will certainly chop every forest which I don't need for something important but I could chop into Taj, it does not have to be Moai.
per turn from Mercantilism? Since we are considering Moai the most common work for another citizen is a 24 coast (Colossus and GA). On the other hand, one pop is 90 or 180, assuming there is no Organized Religion and forge. Most of the whipping will take place during slavery window around t240 (second GP for a 2-GP goldane Age will be out on t238), so I will be in OR at the time. But that is only for 5 turns, then back to Caste and Pacifism, making OR's influence on failgold negligible.Population can't be directly converted into hammers, you have to actually build something. I think the best way of evaluating Wonderbread is using settlers and workers. I will need them in any case, so the hammers (or population) spent on them can be removed from equation. Whips with max overflow are easily arranged, basically you choose between using minimum pop to produce them or whip away 1 more pop to convert it into 90
. In short, whenever you choose between whipping a worker at 29/120 or at 30/120 it is a choice between converting 1 unit of population into 90 and keeping it.Now it is easy to compare gaining 180
soon or receiving 4 per turn over time. Extra population means higher maintenance, some citizens may have better tiles than 24 to work and there will be some multipliers for , but it won't significantly alter the picture. It will take roughly 180/4=45 turns to for a citizen to pay back, that is from t240 to t285. Mining inc. is expected on t280 or sooner, so it does not look like this latish Wonderbread will help me very much. I will certainly chop every forest which I don't need for something important but I could chop into Taj, it does not have to be Moai.At last I'm back to actually playing the game, a short turnset (212-216).
First thing I looked at GP farms. Over the following 10 turns some 30 workers will be busy building farms to help them grow. This is rather costly in terms of workerturns. I don't want to calculate opportunity costs for Great People; I'm pretty sure they are worth it.
T212. DoW on Mansa.
It made Hamburg and Timbuktu unhappy but 5 workers a worth it. Besides, should Mansa get second border pop in Walata it will block access to the large island which I intend to use for creating vassals. I gave Vora and San Francisco to him for a bit free war success. If I leave him alive it will be Vora. Not an ideal place but better than Walata.
T214. Bad news: Suleiman made peace with Frederick. I'm not sure any of them is bribable, though. My power is about 650 and the best of AI is just over 200 (probably Suleiman), while the average is about 140.
T215. MoM finished with 3256.
I start Golden Age with the Music artist and I'm immediately up from -6 to +274, about as much as expected. Representation is no use at the moment - I have only one specialist. Better adopt HR for with the same maintenance as Despotism and OR, mainly for missionaries, several cities could also benefit from 25% boost for buildings. Hindu is the most convenient as state religion, although four of my GP farms miss it; a few other cities need spreads too. I think staying in OR till Banking is affordable. It costs only 11 more than Paganism, bonus for buildings alone should justify it.
On the other hand, there is Free Religion. I'm currently making exactly 900 at 100% research. Although 10% increase may not sound like much, 90 is a substantial boost, and five turns in FR would raise about 450. It can shave off 1 turn of research! Unless I'm forced by spreading failures to stay OR I will switch to FR for a few turns, before switching to Rep, Caste, Merc, Pacifism.
T216. Mansa is relocated to Vora. I have to leave him alive for two reasons. First, I need single city AI's for my raising domination limit scheme. Second, he has Monarchy.
I had plans for making Roosevelt create vassal that would trade Monarchy but this is proving difficult. Then I won't be able to DoW him and his vassal for 10 turns because I want CoL from him. This is not affordable, because I'm already at 40.19% out of 51% allowed. Once everything is set up, I can make AI create a new vassal every 2-3 turns. However, the preparations take time and first change to the domination limit happens only after 5 new civs appear. As a bonus, if I give up on Roosevelt, I can take Washington soon - a really good city. This way I also can take my time extorting full value of CoL from Roosevelt.
Edit: I have quite a few espionage points on Mansa. Time to steal his whole gold stash, perhaps?
Edit2: There is a danger of him peace-vassaling to Darius. Darius can't declare war on me now - he is too weak - but does it apply peace-vassaling? And what would happen if I'm at war with Darius and at peace with Mansa?
First thing I looked at GP farms. Over the following 10 turns some 30 workers will be busy building farms to help them grow. This is rather costly in terms of workerturns. I don't want to calculate opportunity costs for Great People; I'm pretty sure they are worth it.
T212. DoW on Mansa.
It made Hamburg and Timbuktu unhappy but 5 workers a worth it. Besides, should Mansa get second border pop in Walata it will block access to the large island which I intend to use for creating vassals. I gave Vora and San Francisco to him for a bit free war success. If I leave him alive it will be Vora. Not an ideal place but better than Walata.
Spoiler :
T214. Bad news: Suleiman made peace with Frederick. I'm not sure any of them is bribable, though. My power is about 650 and the best of AI is just over 200 (probably Suleiman), while the average is about 140.
T215. MoM finished with 3256
.I start Golden Age with the Music artist and I'm immediately up from -6 to +274, about as much as expected. Representation is no use at the moment - I have only one specialist. Better adopt HR for
with the same maintenance as Despotism and OR, mainly for missionaries, several cities could also benefit from 25% boost for buildings. Hindu is the most convenient as state religion, although four of my GP farms miss it; a few other cities need spreads too. I think staying in OR till Banking is affordable. It costs only 11 more than Paganism, bonus for buildings alone should justify it.On the other hand, there is Free Religion. I'm currently making exactly 900
at 100% research. Although 10% increase may not sound like much, 90 is a substantial boost, and five turns in FR would raise about 450. It can shave off 1 turn of research! Unless I'm forced by spreading failures to stay OR I will switch to FR for a few turns, before switching to Rep, Caste, Merc, Pacifism.Spoiler :
T216. Mansa is relocated to Vora. I have to leave him alive for two reasons. First, I need single city AI's for my raising domination limit scheme. Second, he has Monarchy.
I had plans for making Roosevelt create vassal that would trade Monarchy but this is proving difficult. Then I won't be able to DoW him and his vassal for 10 turns because I want CoL from him. This is not affordable, because I'm already at 40.19% out of 51% allowed. Once everything is set up, I can make AI create a new vassal every 2-3 turns. However, the preparations take time and first change to the domination limit happens only after 5 new civs appear. As a bonus, if I give up on Roosevelt, I can take Washington soon - a really good city. This way I also can take my time extorting full value of CoL from Roosevelt.
Edit: I have quite a few espionage points on Mansa. Time to steal his whole gold stash, perhaps?
Edit2: There is a danger of him peace-vassaling to Darius. Darius can't declare war on me now - he is too weak - but does it apply peace-vassaling? And what would happen if I'm at war with Darius and at peace with Mansa?
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Tested the possibility of Darius bribing Suleiman. It is very close, if only I could get rid of land target or get him to cautios, so I could bribe him myself. My south is comletely unprotected, I can't afford to have such an enemy there. He does not have gold or resources to demand. That's a problem I have to solve in a few turns. I must be ready to extort Feudalism from Darius by 221 or 222 turn. I suppose 223 would not be too bad, but the sooner the better.
Edit: It seems that in bribing calculations one's enemie's power is not subtracted. Has anyone ever tested it?
Edit: It seems that in bribing calculations one's enemie's power is not subtracted. Has anyone ever tested it?
It is subtracted. I managed to worldbuild situation where Darius would bribe Frederick while the latter had less than 1/6 of my power.
Darius would bribe Bismarck first. If I make peace treaty with Bismarck he would try Suleiman next, then Frederick. It seems that AI choosing who to bribe simply goes though the list of civs in the order they were picked. I expect human player is on top of the list, that would explain why were are always pestered by all sorts of silly demands all the time.
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Apparently, I will have to go with original plan and get Monarchy from Roosevelt's vassal. As a backup I have 45 war success vs Mansa and more than 10 times his power, that could buy about 700.
There is room only for two more cities on the island. In the circumstances Roosevelt will create a colony only with at least 2 cities in revolt and 3 not. Three cities in revolt would be ideal, but that is not possible. By 218 turn its almost ready, Machinery is prepared at 3789/3822, one settler is already in place and another needs just one more turn, but... Roosevelt settled another city on a different island
So, its plan B then.
At least I was incredibly lucky with Portland and won a 51% fight, loosing only a chariot.
T219. Henry Ford has been born in Paris!
Mansa refuses to give me Monarchy
Lets put some 150 more into it. Roosevelt won't give CoL. Never mind, there is plenty of time to get it. Washington is on a hill and protected by a bunch of metal units, but Houston is guarded by a single chariot - easy prey for a 2-move Praetorian.
Suleiman trades
and resources at annoyed. He has two cows, but I have eleven
He also has one fur, which he won't give me, of course. So the solution is: I give my fur city - Circei - to Suleiman, my second fur to Willem and demand fur from Suleiman. Now I'm perfectly safe from him for 10 turns. That should be enough to deal with Bismarck, Fred and Darius. Peace treaty with Willem expires on the next turn but he can be bribed only at friendly.
Ostia is settled and given to Frederick along with Portland. He did not have time to enjoy my generousity, because next envelope contained war declaration.
T220. Finally, I got Monarchy from Mansa at 1027/1638. Well, better than nothing.
Took back my cities plus Dortmund. Also captured a worker who was about to chop a forest. It was not a Greenpeace action - I will chop that forest quite soon. Captured Houston, Roosevelt still won't give up CoL.
Now I'm ready to take on Darius. A few gifts are in order, Ostia and Portland, perhaps? Bismarck should not be left out too.
Willem is plotting! His stack (5 axemen and 3 swordmen) is staying put, though.
I think ten forests around Susa will go into Taj. Slavery window with OR will be at the same time when I get Nationalism. I only need to make sure that Susa has state religion, which does not have to be Hindu, because GP production will stall anyway.
Edit: Almost forgot, I had another - guess what -
Also a granary was destroyed in Rome. That's it, isn't it? I will have to found corps in IW city. If I can find a way to build Ironworks in time, that is. May be, if I skip Paper and Education...
.There is room only for two more cities on the island. In the circumstances Roosevelt will create a colony only with at least 2 cities in revolt and 3 not. Three cities in revolt would be ideal, but that is not possible. By 218 turn its almost ready, Machinery is prepared at 3789/3822, one settler is already in place and another needs just one more turn, but... Roosevelt settled another city on a different island
So, its plan B then.At least I was incredibly lucky with Portland and won a 51% fight, loosing only a chariot.
Spoiler :
T219. Henry Ford has been born in Paris!
Mansa refuses to give me Monarchy
Lets put some 150 more into it. Roosevelt won't give CoL. Never mind, there is plenty of time to get it. Washington is on a hill and protected by a bunch of metal units, but Houston is guarded by a single chariot - easy prey for a 2-move Praetorian.Suleiman trades
and resources at annoyed. He has two cows, but I have eleven He also has one fur, which he won't give me, of course. So the solution is: I give my fur city - Circei - to Suleiman, my second fur to Willem and demand fur from Suleiman. Now I'm perfectly safe from him for 10 turns. That should be enough to deal with Bismarck, Fred and Darius. Peace treaty with Willem expires on the next turn but he can be bribed only at friendly.Ostia is settled and given to Frederick along with Portland. He did not have time to enjoy my generousity, because next envelope contained war declaration.
T220. Finally, I got Monarchy from Mansa at 1027/1638. Well, better than nothing.
Took back my cities plus Dortmund. Also captured a worker who was about to chop a forest. It was not a Greenpeace action - I will chop that forest quite soon. Captured Houston, Roosevelt still won't give up CoL.
Now I'm ready to take on Darius. A few gifts are in order, Ostia and Portland, perhaps? Bismarck should not be left out too.
Willem is plotting! His stack (5 axemen and 3 swordmen) is staying put, though.
I think ten forests around Susa will go into Taj. Slavery window with OR will be at the same time when I get Nationalism. I only need to make sure that Susa has state religion, which does not have to be Hindu, because GP production will stall anyway.
Spoiler :
Edit: Almost forgot, I had another - guess what -
Spoiler :
Also a granary was destroyed in Rome. That's it, isn't it? I will have to found corps in IW city. If I can find a way to build Ironworks in time, that is. May be, if I skip Paper and Education...
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