Noob needs help: hit plateau at Prince difficulty

I will not update from that save i posted. (Not played it since anyway.) The point was to show you a save of how it could of looked but I guess that was not helpful really as we used different starting locations. Didn't mean to upset.

The odds on my attacks to take the capital were very low. Below 1-10%. Maybe below 1%. It's all about the dice roll when you attack the spear. If I did it again i might get a different result. If the spear survives full strength after 2-3 attacks then the chances of taking the city are low.

Horse Archer rushes can work well but this is not the map for an HA rush as you have very low food, health and happiness resources. (it took a lot of effort to trade for resources on the game you posted.)

A horse archer rush is normally started by beelining Horse back riding with the idea to have 10-12 horse archers by about 1000bc. So you get all key worker techs like Bronze working/The wheel//pottery and techs for nearby food resources. Maybe even writing too as libraries speed up research. Then focus on researching Horseback riding/archery with 3 or so cities. You can then whip city population/chop forest to get 10-11 HA as soon as possible. Use of whip overflow too Ideally with granaries but at times speed is better. On Prince you won't need so many units especially if the ai have no metal. Of course that is 20 years of civ play on how i learned to do it. Lot of mechcanics involved to do all of this.

If your units loiter around Ai cities the Ai will typically whip a new unit each turn. Ideally when rushing you try to go for the capital first. If you time it well often there will only be 2-3 archers defending. It will be much harder on a hill. Normally i promote my units with strength for the 10% bonus.

It's harder to help when you are posting saves past 1ad. It's the first 50 turns where you probably need more help. Not every map will be an HA rush map. We need to work out why your second city is a bit slower. With only 1 cow resource that would delay it a few turns. Given your comments I won't test this as you can do this yourself.

In general there is an opportunity cost of growth vs how much actual time it will save on the settler build. E.g. growing for a 3-4F farm/floodplain or a 1f3H mine may not speed up settler production much. Where if you have two 5-6 F tiles then these will. So the double cow here was worth it has it took many tuns off the settler build. Where if I have to grow for 5-6 turns and settler is 1-2 turns faster it's just delaying my expansion. If you have 2-3 decent 5f/6F tiles it may be worth whipping the settler at size 4 or 6. I think Sampsa would say to whip as soon as possible. Same for workers size 4 to size 2. Of course these are mechanics for you to learn what works best.

I did use a blocker city on the game i posted but only cause i wanted the fish health. Pretty sure the AI would of taken that spot if they could. It actually kept many tiles it could work so added some value.

Looks like you got a lot of good advice from Lymond. There is no tick box way to teach you this game as every map is different and may need a different technique.
 
Generally agree with Lymond and Gumbolt (which doesn't always happen). Civ 4 is quite a complex game with a steep learning curve particularly as you increase difficulty level. Sometimes a new player might feel patronised or ridiculed by more experienced players but that's almost never their intent (there ain't a lot of trolling at CFC and it tends to get called out by the moderators). Keep playing and you'll get through the frustration.
 
Maybe the advice here needs to be just about beating prince and helping the early game? As beating Prince and immortal are 2 very different things.
 
Maybe the advice here needs to be just about beating prince and helping the early game? As beating Prince and immortal are 2 very different things.
There are many ways to beat Prince though. Say a chariot rush surely beats prince, but might not teach much else. In my opinion players struggling with noble/prince should simply learn how to set up the empire. Then they already start to learn the tools to beat deity.
 
Does Pattison1100 want to start to learn the tools to beat deity or simply how to beat prince?
 
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.
 
Does Pattison1100 want to start to learn the tools to beat deity or simply how to beat prince?
Honestly speaking, for now I am okay with just being able to have fun at Prince.
Noble was just too easy. But usually I'm not a maximalist with games, I don't have that much time to chisel myself to perfection.
As of now, I think that already at Prince there's plenty to be mindful of to succeed. I like myself a bit of a challenge, otherwise I'd have sayed at Noble, but I'm not trying to get to the level where the AI is having an unfair advantage.
Heck, I'm still struggling with achieving anything decent militaristically at this level. The early game concepts I'm starting to get my head around.
 
One man's fun is another man's bore.

I didn't mean that you need to start learning how to beat deity. I meant that it doesn't make sense to me to learn things that you need to unlearn once this level is no longer challenging (=fun?).
 
I meant that it doesn't make sense to me to learn things that you need to unlearn once this level is no longer challenging (=fun?).
Rather than "teaching" bad habits which would have to be "unlearnt" later on (like I dunno, systematic Chariot rush which would definitely work on Prince, but not later on), I think the idea would be to skip unessential optimizations at this level.
For instance "binary research", and even more delaying your first tech by 5 turns: saving a coupla beakers is completely unnecessary.
Learning how to use slavery, to prefer 2- or 3-pop whips is useful. Learning about efficient overflow use would be very debatable.
Learning to pick spots with food in the first ring, to embrace overlap between cities, and how to share tiles efficiently: important.
Learning to work good yield and improved tiles: important.
Shaving a few turns off your first worker build by optimizing your city-center tile? Whether growing to work another good tile will speed up or slow down your settler build by a coupla turns? Completely useless at that stage.

Getting the core concepts right is important. The high-level optimizations? That's information overload.
Just my 2 cents. :)
 
Well, I mostly agree though I wouldn't consider for example learning to lean towards settling on plains hills useless at all! It a very simple concept making things a LOT easier.

Seeing what strong play looks like probably is overwhelming. Still of course I try to emphasize things that I consider important.
 
As someone who played at Noble/Prince/Monarch forever, I wish I had unlearned my “just go up the aesthetics tree in every game, rush anyone close with horses to get their capital, oracle something, take the music GA, get to horses with guns first and win”, which works 99% of the time no matter the map. I even kept borders closed most of the time because it worked and used extra horse units as my siege, never bothered to build cats/trebs/cannons.

Diplomacy and commerce management really held me back when I decided to move up and challenge myself (and Im still not particularly great at it and I love to build the shiny wonders too much).
 
I think simple things like have a preference on what key worker use is
E.g resources, chop, cottage mine farm, road. Beyond trade routes roads are not urgent early on.

Key thing from your last game was lack of tile improvements. So at least 1 worker per city. Cities a bit closer together mean you need less worker.

I would like to see you try an axe rush. Build 2 or so cities and try and reach 11 axes by 1000bc or sooner. Use chopping and whipping to reach that target. Shaka could be a good leader for this. Cheap barracks and cheap granaries. On Prince 8 axes should be ample pending on the Ai defences.
 
Well, I mostly agree though I wouldn't consider for example learning to lean towards settling on plains hills useless at all! It a very simple concept making things a LOT easier.

Seeing what strong play looks like probably is overwhelming. Still of course I try to emphasize things that I consider important.
Honestly settling on plains hills is one of the few things I've figured out myself from not being able to take a city and then I saw that it was getting a hill bonus. And then plains is generally good for settling due to food.
 
As someone who played at Noble/Prince/Monarch forever, I wish I had unlearned my “just go up the aesthetics tree in every game, rush anyone close with horses to get their capital, oracle something, take the music GA, get to horses with guns first and win”, which works 99% of the time no matter the map. I even kept borders closed most of the time because it worked and used extra horse units as my siege, never bothered to build cats/trebs/cannons.

Diplomacy and commerce management really held me back when I decided to move up and challenge myself (and Im still not particularly great at it and I love to build the shiny wonders too much).
Well I'm not able to have results with just horse units since I switched from Noble to Prince so I had to learn building siege weapons early on. :D
 
Key thing from your last game was lack of tile improvements. So at least 1 worker per city. Cities a bit closer together mean you need less worker.

I would like to see you try an axe rush. Build 2 or so cities and try and reach 11 axes by 1000bc or sooner. Use chopping and whipping to reach that target. Shaka could be a good leader for this. Cheap barracks and cheap granaries. On Prince 8 axes should be ample pending on the Ai defences.
Now that really surprises me. I've been keen on tile improvements, as I could clearly see the difference it makes already on lower difficulty levels.
I might have been distracted by trying to achieve the things I got from this thread, but I always aim for at least 1 worker per city. Weird. Probably distracted by the HA attempt.

I'll try the axe rush.
Shaka should definitely work as I've been on the receiving end of his rush.
 
Turning off (or ignoring) all those UI distractions helps..
- teching advice (recommended growth, military etc) is always random. For example sailing always comes up early and it's near useless inland, of course :)
- blue circles..for settler spots and worker improvements. Also random, sometimes nonsense. Can be switched off in settings.
- city "governors" (or simply put which tiles the AI selects) do bad stuff. Loads of bad stuff..like removing food tiles when you are at the happy cap. Changing one tile manually turns off auto for that city.
- forest chops can be controlled so workers pause before completing them (not sure where exactly..has been some time). Helps with assigning which city gets them, or pre-chopping for later.

While those may sound not so important, it's the same for most games in all genres: filtering out distractions, bad advice & AI nonsense improves gameplay.
We make our own decisions now and learn better habits.

For everything else..focus on one thing to improve :)
You like peaceful settling? Look at how many cities you can get quickly, while mostly ignoring research (slider at 0% is very common on deity for long periods early, just as example).
Gift AIs some resources, always open borders..and you might notice how overall relations improve without doing much else.

Or you could try to conquer a map with only let's say HAs (Pangaea).
Which lets you focus on army management, city management as well (whipping..unhappy recovery, chopping, trying a big :hammers: city with mines that doesn't whip).

Learning takes longer if too many aspects are mixed in at the same time, at least in Civ4.
They can be combined later.
 
The worker chop is part of the BULL features
 
Back
Top Bottom