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Novgorodian 1st UHV

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall: Europe' started by citis, May 25, 2016.

  1. citis

    citis Chieftain

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    You have to keep Livonia (Riga) under your control in 1250AD. However, given that it is included in Prussian spawn zone at this exact date, it is ridicolous, you have to build a large army wasting resources to see the army flipping to the enemy. If you raze Riga then it is autofounded. If you try to settle a second city a two tiles away it flips to Lithuanians, so you have the same problem again.

    I recommend changing the date. Do it at least 5 turns after Lithuanian spawn, so that the "our units join the enemy" stops, so you can reconquer the city and keep it.
     
  2. gilgames

    gilgames Priest-King

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    Or squat, Make Riga your capital, and all problem solved.
     
  3. Pawlak

    Pawlak Chieftain

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    gilgames - isn't squatting sort of game mechanics abuse? UHV shouldn't require this sort of actions IMO
     
  4. gilgames

    gilgames Priest-King

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    You can take it by force or build palace there. But early game production is double with riga, so it worthy anyway.
     
  5. Pawlak

    Pawlak Chieftain

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    I see your point, why this make strategical sens, just IMO it's sort of a exploit that allows you to bypass game mechanics. I have no quarrel with people playing like this, only I think you should be able to finish Novogrodian UHV with Novogrod as capital, since it supposed to reflect historical nations abitions etc.
     
  6. gilgames

    gilgames Priest-King

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    I did that too, and realized, Novgorod as capital sucks a lot. I am not intended to choose stupid AI city spots, so I can be more effective, still Novgorod (the nation) lack production during the whole game, Riga helps a bit and also have strategical benefits. Btw, Russians flip zone isn't changed yet, to fit. I still Can not settle my core due to flip!
     
  7. Pawlak

    Pawlak Chieftain

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    well good for you, and thanks for tip, I think I'll go the way you did next time I play Novogrod, still I think that date should be changed unless it's actually intended to bring Novogrod into ridiculusly expensive war with Prussia for UHV.
     
  8. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    Yeah, squatting is an exploit in my eyes too.
    Will be fixed whenever I have time to look into spawns in detail.
    On the other hand, the starting position of Novgorod (the city) will be improved greatly as soon as I get into map updates.

    But that's kinda unrelated to the problem citis talked about.
    Novgorod does have a hard time with Riga and the various spawns in the area.
    Will improve that too somehow (not yet sure exactly how) when I update Novgorod.
     
  9. gilgames

    gilgames Priest-King

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    Nice promises, but almost nothing have changed, since they get into game, so we have to Find ways to play them, until u fix them :D
    Im not fan of squating too, but sometimes you must (ie with Hungary, there it also have many benefits, but less likely a must)
     
  10. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    Promises?? Did you see the changelog recently? :rolleyes:
    I can proudly say, that modding was never this active for RFCE. I managed to do a _lot_ in the last 3 months, and also got some help from merijn and some others too :)

    There was a time, when there were lots of Alpha or Beta versions coming out much more often, but they were way smaller.
    The time between 1.3 and 1.4 is only a little more than 2 months, and we have about 10x the amount of changes than in many of those.

    So yeah, I'm really statisfied with the progress, and everyone should be proud who provided any help in the development of the mod, feedback included :)
    Thanks everyone, hopefully we can keep up this pace for some time longer!
     
  11. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    Wouldn't just moving the UHV date to right before the Prussian spawn work?
     
  12. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    May do that as a quick solution for 1.4.
    Btw, will release it tomorrow, too tired tonight to finish the rest of my planned changes.
     
  13. gilgames

    gilgames Priest-King

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    NO! I am very satisfied with your work and progress point.
    Just there are things that happen very late, maybe later than they should. thats all.

    EDIT: If you touch them, pls spend a moment to their UU/UB. Konets have no description and adds +1 citizen into merchant +1 unhealthiness. I sense here some illogical thing.
     
  14. citis

    citis Chieftain

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    I just finished Novgorod UHV before the yesterday release. It turns out that units stop to flip the very next turn because of Lithuanian spawn. So I let Prussian take the city and reconquer it without seeing my units flipping.

    However, I'm in favour of putting the date before Prussian spawn. Riga has access to the precious cow, which is essential to keep your unhealthy kingdom populous and a fur resources. So it's a must.

    And I'm in favour of adjusting Moscovite flip zone. There is a city spot in Novgorod core that has access to fur and it flips. Just exclude this city.


    Novgorod position as capital is bad only due to unhealthiness reasons, but that's not a problem, it makes you to focus on healthiness resources.
     
  15. SanJose

    SanJose Chieftain

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    my option for novgorod:
    capital 1S1E honey (Shemensk)
    2nd city 1N iron (Lugo)
     
  16. citis

    citis Chieftain

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    That's my Novgorod strategy map:

    Spoiler :




    The yellow city flips to Moscow, so I avoid to settle it although a very good spot.
     
  17. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    Should? :rolleyes:

    I don't see a problem there, or anything illogical.
    Health is hard for Novgorod, which is good.
    1 free merchant is more than great.
    And the UB even comes earlier, at Alchemy.
    If anything, I find it closer to overpowered than underpowered.

    The 1st UHV is not too challenging without a conflict with the Prussians/Lithuanians.
    Maybe it would be better to move the date 5-10 turns later, not earlier.

    Again, some conflict is good IMO.
    Will adjust the spawn zone somewhat though.

    Unhealthiness is intentional, yeah.
    Will get some more production on the map updates nevertheless.
     
  18. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    Free merchants are a very powerful bonus.
     
  19. citis

    citis Chieftain

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    Yeah, that's better, so you engage in conflict but not see your army flipping. 10 turns after Lithuanian spawn maybe is the best.

    Yes, but human player won't settle the city to avoid flipping.
    Just let other non fur cities flip i.e. Yaroslavl. Human player will conquer it for the sake of 3rd UHV instead for the sake of the 2nd.

    Actually Novgorod production is ok. Especially after building Konets.
     
  20. Sean Meade

    Sean Meade Chieftain

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    A few thoughts, in case anyone finds them useful:
    * I almost can't believe all of the work AbsintheRed does on this mod. Thanks!
    * I played Novgorod recently and found it challenging and not very fun (for me). I struggled with health and stability and low production for the whole game (founded Novgorod on the spot). A lot of this is probably due to my lack of ability, so I am very open to suggestions!
    * I razed Riga twice to keep it from flipping. I like the other ideas in here better (including changing the timing a little).
    * Is the UP a good fit? You have to head for 12 cities (or so) to get the fur. Bureaucracy will be outstripped by then and if you're already struggling with stability it can be hard to change your civic. To get around this, I founded about 4 cities on the fur squares 1 turn before the UHV date and then gave them away.
    * I like the idea of not having to worry about cities in your core flipping, but agree that some conflict can be good.
     

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