Numidian Cavalry? How good is it really?

[dankok8]

Numidian Cavalry is one of those UU's where people are really, really divided. In SP, it's certainly nothing special imo since the AI defends primarily with archers. Not bad since you can pillage pretty much at will, but nothing special.

But, in MP, they should be much stronger where people build more offensive units (i.e. melee units and siege) against which the Numidian Cavalry is amazing. If you have a Barracks and Stable, you can get CI/Shock Numidians out of the gate (which get 50% odds against attacking CI Spearmen) or FI/FII which gives it 50% withdrawal chance I think. I've never used this unit in MP.. What does everyone think? Given their cost (50), it looks like they are still countered by Spearmen (35) rather well.

 

[MkLh]

Numidian Cavalry is one of those UU's where people are really, really divided. In SP, it's certainly nothing special imo since the AI defends primarily with archers.

NC kills archers just as well as it kills axes and is much less vulnerable to spears than the normal HA.

 

[troytheface]

Any horse archer replacement UU is a good bet. Favor the ol Keshik meself. But the Numidean is a good second, and as such is superior to every earlier foot soldier on the field including Preatorians.

 

[J-man]

I only play SP but I love the Numidian Cavalry. They eat axeman and C1/shock stand a good change against a spearmen. With flanking one and two they have a 50% withdrawal chance, so you can use them as an early catapult. A stack of NC's mixed with swords is very powerful.

 

[Gliese 581]

They are also very good to upgrade because of the built-in flanking promo.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I like keshiks a little better due to their pure str, mobility, and first strike, but numidians aren't far behind.

Excessive easy access to flanking II is a big jump start, especially since these guys fare much better against the only units of comparable strength in their era (other than elephants, which might as well be a UU)

 

[dankok8]

Excessive easy access to flanking II is a big jump start, especially since these guys fare much better against the only units of comparable strength in their era (other than elephants, which might as well be a UU)

You're right. I would think Keshik is better in SP (I tried Keshiks and they are pretty darn good), but Numidians would be better in MP since they don't really have a counter.

Concerning elephants, you're absolutely right. I never thought that way...
If Ballista Elephant was a UU and War Elephants didn't exist as a unit, no one would think the Ballistas are weak. UU's should not be based on very strong units to begin with. Another example is Cossack I guess... The vanilla Cossack was .. and current one sucks cuz the Cavalry is already amazing. They had to rework the tech tree for BTS to nerf it.

 

[troytheface]

'UU's should not be based on very strong units to begin with."

Not sure that they could implement that, but i would like to see more varied UU placements-Civ3 had scout, explorer, ship and airplane UU's which gave the player some options. (although the "fast Worker" was inspired)
How about mixing it up with a spy or settler UU ect.?

 

[oyzar]

Numedians are actually countered just fine by horse archers in their time...

 

[futurehermit]

Definitely one of my fav UUs. With barracks/stables/charismatic you can have flanking 2/combat 2 on them in no time. If they don't win their attack, they will often withdraw. Their two movement means you can zip through enemy territory quick. Your first GG should go to a medic so you can heal up those injured guys who withdrew. They upgrade nicely as well, which you can usually afford with financial. I know horse archers don't get much love around these forums, but in the right circumstances they can be highly effective.

 

[civvver]

I usually find numidians to be prohibitively expensive. HBR costs a ton to research early and the units costs more than axes, which do just as well for taking AI archer defended cities due to city raider promotions. Yes they're an awesome unit, but for the price you can get a big stack of axes.

 

[Iranon]

...and in addition to being expensive, they belong to a leader who doesn't have a production bonus or hammer saver on anything, who has a UB that's more expensive than the one it replaces and who encourages you not to whip much (higher happiness cap).

They're good, but unless several things go my way they end up being an additional promotion for my initial knights and little else. That they get beaten up by regular Horse Archers and are rendered totally useless by Elephants doesn't help either.

 

[Gumbolt]

I scored one of my highest conquest scores using NC UU. 20-50% withdrwl rate is fantastic. You do have to use the window of archers to its full.

Spearmen are a minor pain but a lot of the NC retreat before they are killed. Sitting bull does not like NC. early on.

 

[civvver]

Hannibal is one of my favorite leaders, but you're right, he doesn't seem to fit his UU at all.

 

[oyzar]

Well horse units are best with carismatic due to stable... So they fit by being the right unit type.. would be better as a chariot replacement with +50% against meele of course, but you can't have everything...

 

[civvver]

tbh I rarely find myself making great use of any uu except for praets, samurai and fast workers. Nothing really beats a good old axe rush or medieval war with maces + trebs. Hannibal's UB though is pwn. Get the great lighthouse and make a sweet coastal econ.

 

[SnowlyWhite]

good leader, mediocre uu...

 

[Roxlimn]

civver:

Maybe you just didn't think about it that much.

Lots of UU are axes. Phalanx and Vulture beg to be used aggressively and I would consider an axe rush with these units "a great use."

Keshiks are also a fantastic UU and it's a replacement for a mainstay support unit - HAs. Aside from Samurai, Ragnar's Bersekers are a great Maceman replacement unit and using them for taking cities counts in my view as "a great use."

Shaka's Impis are Spearmen replacements - vital support troops for Axemen in a rush and buildable with negligible additional requirements. Rushing a few Impis for additional pushing on an Axe Rush and for pillaging and raider work counts to me as "a great use."

I'm quite sure you're capable of all these maneuvers and use them without even thinking about it - perhaps that's why it doesn't loom large as "great uses of UUs."

 

[JujuLautre]

Lots of UU are axes.

Three of them. And there were none before BTS came out

 

[Roxlimn]

Ah! Perhaps he's playing Warlords?