Nurse suspended for prayer offer

[El_Machinae]

That seems to make no sense whatsoever. Really. If people actually believe in power of the prayer, it should work some sort of placebo effect on them. If they don't, there should be no effect whatsoever. So what could be the reason for the opposite happening?

That's why it pays to do studies! I wouldn't have predicted a negative effect either, and I used to think 'offering to pray' was a good thing if it gave reassurance.

I believe that that is referencing the 'great prayer experiment', but I could be wrong. I believe the findings of the study were along the lines of: the patients that were unaware of being prayed for or weren't being prayed for recovered from their conditions as normal, while the patients who were aware that a group of strangers were praying for their recovery (I think this includes a group of patients who were under the false impression that the group was praying for them, but I may be making that up) had a greater tendency towards complications. Why would this be? Who knows, but it could be false confidence in their own recovery by divine forces (a kind of inverse placebo), worry that 'oh man, if they're praying for me I must be ill', or something completely different. What it certainly doesn't show is that knowing you're being prayed for aids recovery.

Yeah, that's what I was talking about. There's even a thread on CFC Off-Topic about it.

 

[Sidhe]

By the way there was a piece of evidence that showed that prayer had a positive effect on heart patients, the only problem was when they actually examined the results it turned out they had a retro causal effect that broke the time barrier and didn't work forwards in time. Very odd results, which made them seriously question the reliability of such experiments in the first place.

 

[El_Machinae]

Well, you'd need to link that study, I think.

I deleted the triple posts.

Here's the thread that discussed the effect of known prayer on the heart patients.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=165421

 

[Sharwood]

Triple post, is this forum suffering technical difficulties?

Yes, it was at that time. That's about when I responded to you in the cannbialism thread, and it took me three hours to edit a typo.

 

[Sidhe]

Well, you'd need to link that study, I think.

I deleted the triple posts.

Here's the thread that discussed the effect of known prayer on the heart patients.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=165421

I can but it's subscription only so there's no real point. Unless you have a subscription to New scientist in which case:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg16422123.600-god-on-their-side.html

God on their side

PRAYERS can help patients recover even when they don't know that people are praying for them, says a provocative new study. Sceptics are far from convinced, however. They say that while this attempt to probe the healing powers of prayer was better designed than previous studies, it was still flawed.

Although most research into prayer has found no effect, one study of four hundred heart patients in 1988 did suggest a positive outcome. But William Harris of Saint Luke's Hospital in Kansas City, Missouri, felt that this study was potentially flawed, since both doctors and their patients knew a study was in progress—although no one knew which patients received prayer. So Harris designed a similar study, in which both doctors and patients were kept in the dark.

Harris and his colleagues secretly enrolled patients who came to the hospital's coronary care unit over 12 months. They left out patients having ...

To be honest though there is no evidence that prayer works, even this study was somewhat bizarre in its results, leading many to question the methodology rather than the seemingly absurd conclusions.

Yes, it was at that time. That's about when I responded to you in the cannbialism thread, and it took me three hours to edit a typo.

Indeed there appear to be server issues atm, see the feedback forum for more details. I had to log off for about that long myself. Still at least I pwned the Mehmed II's pitiful cavalry with my tanks in the mean time.

 

[Simple Simon]

Sidhe, gimme that link to the study! I can get almost anything through my and my wife's work access.

 

[Sidhe]

Sidhe, gimme that link to the study! I can get almost anything through my and my wife's work access.

Already have, it's the one above. ^^

 

[warpus]

I'm not sure about this.. on one hand it doesn't seem like a big deal (and the patient even said she wasn't offended - she merely brought it up to someone because she thought somebody else might be)...

on the other, I can see some people being reluctant about sharing details regarding their personal (lack of) beliefs in a God/Gods.

I mean, say that I'm in Poland, get into a car accident, and I end up in the hospital. Nurses swarm around me and offer a prayer - and I delcine, telling them that I don't believe in God. In the condition that I was in, I might worry what the consequences of that might be. Would they do as good of a job? Would they label me as a heathen?

From what I'm reading, there weren't any official guidelines regarding anything like this at the place she worked at. With that in mind, I don't see how she can be punished in any sort of way. What rule did she break?

There should be rules, though, IMO. I mean, allow nurses to join into prayer, but only if the patient requests it. Otherwise.. how do you even know what the religious views of the patient are? Religion should be something personal - so unless the patient comes forward and asks for a prayer, .. keep it to yourself.

 

[TheLastOne36]

I would say that requiring Nurses to offer prayer is about as ******** as forbidding them to do so

Reread my post, Nurses are required to ask the patient, or the patients family if they would like to have a prayor. It isn't mandatory to have a prayor.

Stuff like this is why I love Poland so much...

hmmwhat?

 

[Sidhe]

I'm not sure about this.. on one hand it doesn't seem like a big deal (and the patient even said she wasn't offended - she merely brought it up to someone because she thought somebody else might be)...

on the other, I can see some people being reluctant about sharing details regarding their personal (lack of) beliefs in a God/Gods.

I mean, say that I'm in Poland, get into a car accident, and I end up in the hospital. Nurses swarm around me and offer a prayer - and I delcine, telling them that I don't believe in God. In the condition that I was in, I might worry what the consequences of that might be. Would they do as good of a job? Would they label me as a heathen?

From what I'm reading, there weren't any official guidelines regarding anything like this at the place she worked at. With that in mind, I don't see how she can be punished in any sort of way. What rule did she break?

There should be rules, though, IMO. I mean, allow nurses to join into prayer, but only if the patient requests it. Otherwise.. how do you even know what the religious views of the patient are? Religion should be something personal - so unless the patient comes forward and asks for a prayer, .. keep it to yourself.

What's lame is in hospitals they have priests of as many denominations as necessary on call, or on site in chapels. Who ask if someone is of their faith all the time and would want a prayer, it's hardly abnormal practice, they tour the wards and try to bring comfort particularly to terminal patients but anyone, and they don't force faith on anyone. It all seems a bit unnecessary and I hope she isn't penalised for it.

In my hospital they were trying to recruit Catholic priests and Muslim Imams for the same purpose so those of a minority faith wouldn't be left out. It's pointless IMO, which is why I checked it wasn't a Daily Mail article first off.