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OFFICIAL DISCUSSION: Provincial Issues

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Demo Game V: Citizens' started by Chieftess, Jan 26, 2005.

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  1. blackheart

    blackheart unenlightened

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    True... but where do you propose we start then? Idea first, then a plan comes along. You can't have a plan without an idea :crazyeye: .

    And I don't bicker, I drive my point across.
     
  2. ravensfire

    ravensfire Member of the Opposition

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    Here's an idea - keep it simple and let the game dictate it.

    "$LEADER_NAME will lead discussions on, and present to the People for approval, provincial border plans in a timely manner and ahead of settlement. Provinces that have more than three cities and no Governor must have one appointed at the earliest opportunity. Cities not controlled by a Governor are controlled by $LEADER_NAME."

    -- Ravensfire
     
  3. ravensfire

    ravensfire Member of the Opposition

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    Provincial Issues discussion summary:
    • Setting Boundaries
      • DG 5: Too long to post here, see the ruleset

    Discussion points:
    • Setting province size
      • Fixed number of cities?
      • Natural contours
      • Limit capital province size?
      • Allow leader to determine the process

    -- Ravensfire
     
  4. Ashburnham

    Ashburnham King

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    I agree with having a 3 city minimum, but that should be the only prerequisite when forming provinces. The process should predominately be based on geographic features. This ensures that every province will have a unique feature about it, and will ultimately result in a more interesting game.

    To use an American example, which state looks cooler: Nebraska or New York? I rest my case. :D
     
  5. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    Uh, California. :D
     
  6. blackheart

    blackheart unenlightened

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    Neither. Nebraska is full of hicks and Mexican immigrants (I live right across the river from it) and New York is an overcrowded, urban hellhole (been there).
     
  7. Black_Hole

    Black_Hole Deity

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    calling me a hick? :lol:
     
  8. Octavian X

    Octavian X is not a pipe.

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    Provinical borders and the nonsense that follows whenever anyone presents a proposal, I think, could be eliminated with ease. I said it at the beginning of DG5 - our provincial organization process could be streamlined if we simply approved lists of cities for our provinces, rather than actual border lines on the map. This way, we can only argue about the only things that really matter when it comes to putting them into a province - the cities - and we won't have to worry about nor record petty lines.
     
  9. Ashburnham

    Ashburnham King

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    Perhaps I was being a bit too tongue-in-cheek :rolleyes:. The point is, provinces with some personality, and some geographic features to call their own, will make for a more interesting game than arbitrary cookie-cutter provinces.
     
  10. blackheart

    blackheart unenlightened

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    But I like premade starshaped cookies, er, provinces :p
    Why not just use both? It wouldn't make sense to have a province lookling like a giant bear or something and call it the Yogi province (although it would be fun).

    BTW, hicks can't use computers, Black_hole ;)
     
  11. YNCS

    YNCS Ex-bubblehead

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    There's more to New York State than New York City. I went to college in Olean, NY, population about 15,000.

    Seriously, I prefer geographically defined rather than arbitrarily defined provinces.
     
  12. truckingpete

    truckingpete On a Stark Trek

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    I'll put in my 2 cents:

    Why dont the proivence borders be a group of cities culture borders. We wouldn't have to vote on the borders becuase they are already there....

    Coments?

    Oh and for that best looking state thing..its North Dakota..:D

    -TP
     
  13. TimBentley

    TimBentley Deity

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    I agree that this is nice (avoiding governor's requesting tile use of another province), although the question of boundaries remains when cities overlap.
     
  14. MOTH

    MOTH Emperor

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    I like the use of cultural borders. The overlap can be handled by using the rules for cultural influence. If a tile is equidistant from 2 cities then it is part of the city (and therefore province) with more culture. There will stll have to be wrangling between governors when a tile needs to be shared.
     
  15. truckingpete

    truckingpete On a Stark Trek

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    I was thinking if the culture changes for the city and goes into another provience borders...the borders would stay the same before it expanded...
    Once all the spaces between a couple of cities are filled...then the provience is complete then you can do what I was thinking above..

    Unless you want to vote for those tiles that belong to both to see who gets what but I like what I said above..less time consuming....

    -TP
     
  16. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    Province boundaries are a culture thing in the DG -- not the in-game culture, but the culture of the RL people playing. Sometimes we have strong governors and mayors who take up the torch for the citizens of their provinces and cities like they are real, living and breathing people. Kinda like Civ meets The Sims. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this, in fact I have found the resulting threads to be some of the most memorable and entertaining material I've witnessed and participated in.

    What this means for this discussion is that we should leave the growth of provinces and their borders as an organic thing, to be decided only once we know the terrain and the personalities involved. Define a process to be used (who is in charge, how are decisions reached) and leave the rest undefined.
     
  17. truckingpete

    truckingpete On a Stark Trek

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    I agree...we should decide after we know a good chunk of our terrain..once we know we can start making proviences....

    -TP

    P.S. - And why dont we call the proviences "states" Its shorter then proviences and I have know idea if I am spelling it right..:D It's been provineces for all the DemoGames (that I know of)...try something new...
     
  18. Black_Hole

    Black_Hole Deity

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    I would be all for calling them states, but some non americans might not be...
     
  19. truckingpete

    truckingpete On a Stark Trek

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    Yes, I suppose..but it would be nice...just trying something new...

    -TP
     
  20. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    I suspect there are two factors in why we're not using "states". There are many places where "state" connotes a national entity instead of a sub national one. And probaby more importantly, using the term state would be considered US-centrist by some people, so I suspect province was chosen as the term to avoid that potential problem.
     
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