OFFICIAL DISCUSSION: Provincial Issues

[blackheart]

My question was a rhetorical question. It doesn't really require an answer. It was put in my post to to help the opinionated people above realize how much work is needed to organize, design, make fair to all, and be able to be used consistantly throughout the game. Just making a statement about what you want doesn't translate into a workable plan. People that have presented Provincial Border Proposals know this.

True... but where do you propose we start then? Idea first, then a plan comes along. You can't have a plan without an idea .

And I don't bicker, I drive my point across.

 

[ravensfire]

Here's an idea - keep it simple and let the game dictate it.

"$LEADER_NAME will lead discussions on, and present to the People for approval, provincial border plans in a timely manner and ahead of settlement. Provinces that have more than three cities and no Governor must have one appointed at the earliest opportunity. Cities not controlled by a Governor are controlled by $LEADER_NAME."

-- Ravensfire

 

[ravensfire]

Provincial Issues discussion summary:

• Setting Boundaries
  • DG 5: Too long to post here, see the ruleset

Discussion points:

• Setting province size
  • Fixed number of cities?
  • Natural contours
  • Limit capital province size?
  • Allow leader to determine the process

-- Ravensfire

 

[Ashburnham]

I agree with having a 3 city minimum, but that should be the only prerequisite when forming provinces. The process should predominately be based on geographic features. This ensures that every province will have a unique feature about it, and will ultimately result in a more interesting game.

To use an American example, which state looks cooler: Nebraska or New York? I rest my case.

 

[Cyc]

To use an American example, which state looks cooler: Nebraska or New York?

Uh, California.

 

[blackheart]

To use an American example, which state looks cooler: Nebraska or New York? I rest my case.

Neither. Nebraska is full of hicks and Mexican immigrants (I live right across the river from it) and New York is an overcrowded, urban hellhole (been there).

 

[Black_Hole]

Neither. Nebraska is full of hicks and Mexican immigrants (I live right across the river from it) and New York is an overcrowded, urban hellhole (been there).

calling me a hick?

 

[Octavian X]

Provinical borders and the nonsense that follows whenever anyone presents a proposal, I think, could be eliminated with ease. I said it at the beginning of DG5 - our provincial organization process could be streamlined if we simply approved lists of cities for our provinces, rather than actual border lines on the map. This way, we can only argue about the only things that really matter when it comes to putting them into a province - the cities - and we won't have to worry about nor record petty lines.

 

[Ashburnham]

Neither. Nebraska is full of hicks and Mexican immigrants (I live right across the river from it) and New York is an overcrowded, urban hellhole (been there).

Perhaps I was being a bit too tongue-in-cheek . The point is, provinces with some personality, and some geographic features to call their own, will make for a more interesting game than arbitrary cookie-cutter provinces.

 

[blackheart]

Perhaps I was being a bit too tongue-in-cheek . The point is, provinces with some personality, and some geographic features to call their own, will make for a more interesting game than arbitrary cookie-cutter provinces.

But I like premade starshaped cookies, er, provinces
Why not just use both? It wouldn't make sense to have a province lookling like a giant bear or something and call it the Yogi province (although it would be fun).

BTW, hicks can't use computers, Black_hole

 

[YNCS]

New York is an overcrowded, urban hellhole (been there).

There's more to New York State than New York City. I went to college in Olean, NY, population about 15,000.

Seriously, I prefer geographically defined rather than arbitrarily defined provinces.

 

[truckingpete]

I'll put in my 2 cents:

Why dont the proivence borders be a group of cities culture borders. We wouldn't have to vote on the borders becuase they are already there....

Coments?

Oh and for that best looking state thing..its North Dakota..

-TP

 

[TimBentley]

Why dont the proivence borders be a group of cities culture borders. We wouldn't have to vote on the borders becuase they are already there....

I agree that this is nice (avoiding governor's requesting tile use of another province), although the question of boundaries remains when cities overlap.

 

[MOTH]

I agree that this is nice (avoiding governor's requesting tile use of another province), although the question of boundaries remains when cities overlap.

I like the use of cultural borders. The overlap can be handled by using the rules for cultural influence. If a tile is equidistant from 2 cities then it is part of the city (and therefore province) with more culture. There will stll have to be wrangling between governors when a tile needs to be shared.

 

[truckingpete]

I was thinking if the culture changes for the city and goes into another provience borders...the borders would stay the same before it expanded...
Once all the spaces between a couple of cities are filled...then the provience is complete then you can do what I was thinking above..

Unless you want to vote for those tiles that belong to both to see who gets what but I like what I said above..less time consuming....

-TP

 

[DaveShack]

Province boundaries are a culture thing in the DG -- not the in-game culture, but the culture of the RL people playing. Sometimes we have strong governors and mayors who take up the torch for the citizens of their provinces and cities like they are real, living and breathing people. Kinda like Civ meets The Sims. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this, in fact I have found the resulting threads to be some of the most memorable and entertaining material I've witnessed and participated in.

What this means for this discussion is that we should leave the growth of provinces and their borders as an organic thing, to be decided only once we know the terrain and the personalities involved. Define a process to be used (who is in charge, how are decisions reached) and leave the rest undefined.

 

[truckingpete]

What this means for this discussion is that we should leave the growth of provinces and their borders as an organic thing, to be decided only once we know the terrain and the personalities involved.

I agree...we should decide after we know a good chunk of our terrain..once we know we can start making proviences....

-TP

P.S. - And why dont we call the proviences "states" Its shorter then proviences and I have know idea if I am spelling it right.. It's been provineces for all the DemoGames (that I know of)...try something new...

 

[Black_Hole]

I agree...we should decide after we know a good chunk of our terrain..once we know we can start making proviences....

-TP

P.S. - And why dont we call the proviences "states" Its shorter then proviences and I have know idea if I am spelling it right.. It's been provineces for all the DemoGames (that I know of)...try something new...

I would be all for calling them states, but some non americans might not be...

 

[truckingpete]

I would be all for calling them states, but some non americans might not be...

Yes, I suppose..but it would be nice...just trying something new...

-TP

 

[DaveShack]

P.S. - And why dont we call the proviences "states" Its shorter then proviences and I have know idea if I am spelling it right.. It's been provineces for all the DemoGames (that I know of)...try something new...

I suspect there are two factors in why we're not using "states". There are many places where "state" connotes a national entity instead of a sub national one. And probaby more importantly, using the term state would be considered US-centrist by some people, so I suspect province was chosen as the term to avoid that potential problem.