OFW1 Science and Industry

[OneFastWarrior]

I will check when I play my turns (tomorrow probably) but I think we nay have a deal with the greeks. However, when I can I think it best we go for the big civs with the fastest tech pace, greece and Babylon, they are a danger to our victory condition. (at this point)

note: after embarrisingly losing the gotm going for a 20K vicyory and losing to a 100K victory, we must destroy all large civs. Lesson learned, thank you

 

[mad-bax]

Originally posted by OneFastWarrior
note: after embarrisingly losing the gotm going for a 20K vicyory and losing to a 100K victory, we must destroy all large civs. Lesson learned, thank you

Ahem, sorry.
The previous GOTM I was one or two turns from losing three times going for a 20K. But yes, the big Civs need to be kneecapped. But we have some time yet. We need a leader and for that we need high unit survival rates. Fighting the Hoplites is not a particularly good way of acheiving that. Size doesn't matter apparently, but their UU does. First priority second core. Second priority the greeks.

 

[Northern Pike]

Yes, fighting the Hoplites is unpleasant, but as best I recall the Mongols have saltpetre/musketmen and the Greeks don't.

 

[OneFastWarrior]

I'll play tomorrow and post tomorrow evening/night. I'll scout the mongols and see where the saltpeter is and how much they have.
If they have muskets it could be a bloody war, but...

I would prefer to get the rest of this continent, but also don;t want greece and babylon to get much bigger than they are. so...

either way, we must do what must be done!!

 

[OneFastWarrior]

Okay guys. sorry but I probably won't finish my turns tonight. I have to get Early in the morning and work 5 huors OT in the morning.

I did get my turns halfway played and I have not declared war on anyone yet(going for Mongols). I am in the process of getting troops going in that direction. I hope I have not done anything that Either of you were planning, but I am playing the way I would play at this point.

Again, sorry, I will have them here tomorrow afternoon pst.

 

[Northern Pike]

Tomorrow afternoon is fine--unless college football has as great a claim on your time as the NFL?

 

[OneFastWarrior]

No, NP, College Ball does not interest me as much as the NFL, However being that I am in Keeeper Fantasy leagues I do keep up on the good players in college ball. I also Like to watch a few games, Like the WSU Cougars games (if they are playing well).

Anyway's Here is the report and save.

Preturn, Check out Mongol and Greece . No sign of Gunpowder, Mongols have 2 sources of Iron and Horses, All pretty easy to get to. I'll need to take soome turns to get prepped for the war with them.

1. 740AD Mongols start copernicus (we also still have a 12 turn deal with Greece left). There are 5 galleys near Bactra waiting for troops and 1 in Bactra, I am going to upgrade these to Caravels. Also the Peace treaties with China and Egypt are not on a turn basis at this point, so whenever we deem it feasable, we can take them out. I am not bothering with them yet.
Build Embassy in Babylon for 60 gold.

2. 750AD I do not renew our Iron for dyes deal with Carthage. Our Incense deal runs out with America, (2 towns go postal when I do not renew dyes deal )

3. 760AD Upgrade 6 galleys to Caravels for 60 gold. Found Yra Tyube in the hills on our mainland > Library. I have checked out Pasargadae and we can reforest 2 of the regular grassland tiles and get 2 more spt out of this and still have enough food for the current pop.

4. 770AD Cartahge are building bachs, Mongols Magellans.
We have Horsemen in Bactra for upgrade and pickup, but no barracks there.? and we have a barracks in Antioch and no harbor(it is being built) Will build barracks in Bactra after Marketplace is done. Send Horsemen to Antioch for upgrade(14 for 560 gold). Rehooking Kaifeng back up because of the Saltpeter under Dariush kabir and the harbor there also, so it is being shipped everywhere.

5. 780 AD Start reforesting 1 grassland by pasargadae.

6. 790 AD I know we did not want to build Musketmen, but we need some defense by the Mongols borders(just in case) so we can head our other troops in. I rush a few.

7. 800AD Hurry acouple Librarys, start forest on previosly unforested Grasslland tile for Pasargadae(1 south of Perseoplis)
Greece is getting way ahead in techs. they know Navigation, Banking and Chemistry. They want too much.
Trade Russia Saltpeter, WM and 288 gold for Navigation.
Being that America is still so weak, I trade them Theology and Chivalry for Incense, WM and 12 gold.
Also trade maps around for a current lay of the lands.

8. 810AD Taejon attacked by barb-Our warrior is lost and they take 10 gold. Barracks started in Bactra. 1st foresting project is done.

9. 820AD Pasargadae reforesting done. Decide now is a good time as any
Declare War on Mongols!!
Units near Hangchow, in galleys near Shantung, Army and 3 Imoortals near Tabriz! And 16 more KNights in Caravels on the way(in old Egypt canals at the save). 1 knight attacks hangchow and kills pike, promoted to Elite.

10. 830AD Just noticed that we can do the same foresting project for Perseopolis. 2 regular grassland tiles reforest(1 started)
1 Elite knight dies at Hangchow. Hangchow taken > Library.
2 elite knights attack and take Shantung > Spear.
2 Elite Knights attack and kill 2 muskets in Ulaanbatar and take it > Spear. 1 elite wins battle near Ulaanbatar, No leaders

Copernicus has 2 more turns, I have rushed some Librarys and started some courthouses. Printing Press in 2, Mongols are going down quick but they do have 3 or 4 good sized cities.

Good luck NP and have fun

The Save!

 

[Northern Pike]

Fine start against the Mongols, OFW. Thanks for doing all the work of getting our army over there.

We've now won a minimum of 18 elite victories without getting a Great Leader, which is in the worst 21% of possibilites.

 

[Northern Pike]

I've only played seven turns, so there's no save, but I'll post the report so far.

Mad-bax, I was hoping to finish in one session so that you could play on Sunday, if that's convenient for you--but , the turns take a long time on a large map when one's trying to play accurately.

 

[Northern Pike]

MONGOLIAN BARBEQUE


830 (0): Excellent MM of Pasaragdae and Persepolis, OFW.

I'm tempted to trade Navigation to the Carthaginians for Banking, but they want us to throw in more than 500 gold, so I decide to wait until we get Printing Press and assess our options then.

I cash-rush three settlers in China. The Mongols have large, poorly located cities which beg to be razed.

A barbarian horseman enters ungarrisoned Taejon and wipes out our accumulated shields, and then a Mongol longbowman moves adjacent to the town. Since we're bound to lose the city, I give it to the Chinese (in 840, actually) to avoid the WW hit. The Chinese may seem like odd recipients for the gift, but my reasoning is that:

1. We know we'll be fighting them again, so we won't have to conduct an extra war to get Taejon's furs back at some point.

2. The Chinese already have cities in the area (well, within four turns' travel time by ship), so wiping them out will only become moderately more troublesome.

3. We might even provoke the Mongols into going to war with the Chinese.

The Mongols counterattack our exposed knights vigorously with MDI. We win three battles, lose one, and retreat in one. One knight defeats two attacks and promotes to elite.


840 (1): The Army of Darius and its accompanying Immortals take and raze Tabriz (defended only by a pikeman and a spearman) for no loss. The Immortal which razes Tabriz is then picked off by an MDI, though.

The Mongols have eight units in the open between Karakorum and Ta-Tu, so it may be a while before we advance on these cities. We destroy two MDI and fortify several units on the hill north of Ulaanbaatar.

We get Printing Press, and I assume we'll have a monopoly on it; but maddeningly, the Greeks and the Russians seem to get it on the same turn.

Despite our strong position on the hill, Mongol attacks towards Ulaanbaatar are fairly effective, costing us a knight and an Immortal in exchange for two MDI. The Mongols have a lot of units in vulnerable positions now, though.

And:

 

[Northern Pike]

850 (2): One of our elite Immortals attacks a regular Mongol MDI, loses four straight rounds, rallies to win two, and then dies. The RNG nightmare continues for the rest of the turn, as we lose four knights to destroy seven assorted Keshiks, MDI, and longbowmen--all in good attacks. Four elite victories don't produce a Great Leader, and we're into the worst 15% of possibilities.

Printing Press turns out to have very little trade value, but I send it to the Carthaginians along with 32 gpt for Banking. We start banks in eight homeland cities (thus cancelling OneFastWarrior's project finally to get barracks into Arbela and Bactra--sorry, OFW).

I set research to 30%, all we can afford until we build some banks, and we get started on Democracy (due in fifteen turns). We aren't going to get Shakespeare by waiting forty turns for Democracy, and buying government techs from the other civs is hideously expensive, of course.

A Mongol MDI dies attacking our stack on the hill north of Ulaanbataar, making the kill ratio for the turn look a bit better.


860 (3): We found Isfahan, two tiles approximately east of demolished Tabriz.

We destroy two MDI with knights and get two promotions to elite.

An elite knight defeats the attack of a Keshik--no GL.

The first round of war weariness arrives. In our homeland, only Bactra requires adjustment.

The Mongols send two settlers, escorted by an MDI and a longbowman, on a suicide mission to re-found Tabriz.


870 (4): We found Behistun, two tiles approximately west of demolished Tabriz.

We wipe out the Mongols' refound-Tabriz force without loss.

We take and raze Almarikh with knights, eliminating the garrison of two pikemen and one spearman without loss.

We're now at 25 elite victories without a GL, in the worst 11% of possibilities.


880 (5): Our SoD of 16 veteran knights reaches the battlefield from southern Egypt.

Our gems deal with the Americans comes up for renewal, and we have to give them Education and horses for the gems and some petty cash--sheer theft, but the Americans aren't one of our problems in this situation.


890 (6): We take Dalandgadzad from its garrison of three pikemen for a loss of one knight, and raze it.

We found Bushire one square from the site of razed Almarikh.

We found Firdaus two squares roughly south of demolished Dalandgadzad.


900 (7): I get Gordium up to size twelve with worker merges.

We take Ta-Tu in an ugly struggle against a musketman and two pikemen. Only two knights die, but six retreat. There's a Roman settler/spear pair in the vicinity, so I can't raze the city, unfortunately.

We reach thirty elite victories without a GL, in the worst 7% of possibilities.

 

[mad-bax]

Well, the RNG is biting us. The Palace situation will begin to hurt soon. You seem to have got us some more elites to play with though and a leader must follow soon. It's depressing that we have HE earlier than in any game I can remember playing and it's doing us no good at all.

I'm surprised you're facing muskets too. I was fairly sure the Mongols had no salt. If they're trading for it, can we drag the dealer into the war?

Anyway, you have 3 turns to get a leader. Shouldn't be a problem for someone of your calibre

Don't worry about finishing. Take your time. There's nothing worse than HAVING to play. Good luck fishing.

 

[OneFastWarrior]

I did check out the active trades that the Mongols had and they had active trades with Greece and I think it was eiter Ottomans or Carthage. I forgot to write that down in my writeup, sorry.

 

[Northern Pike]

The rest of the report:


910 (8): The second round of war weariness hits. We need more luxuries, so I contact the Carthaginians about a saltpetre-for-spices trade. They value our saltpetre at the spices plus 18 gpt, and while they don't actually have the cash to give us, we can take it as a discount on Chemistry. I send them saltpetre and 48 gpt for spices and Chemistry. Once we have Chemistry we're able to see that the Greeks, Russians, and Carthaginians have Metallurgy, so I'm glad we didn't wait any longer for this advance.

We take Erdenet from its garrison of a musketman and a pikeman, for no loss. What remains of the Mongol homeland is now cut off from the rest of the world by land and by sea, so the Mongols' unexplained source of saltpetre shouldn't be of any more use to them.

Persepolis completes our first bank.


920 (9): We pick off a Keshik with an elite knight--no GL.

We found Merv one tile from the site of razed Dalandgadzad.

Susa and Samaria complete their banks.

A Keshik dies attacking our only unit in Mongolia with a defense factor of four, a musketman--rather an odd choice.

Our ongoing reforestation programme gets Susa up to a useful 20 spt.

A mysterious wave of happiness sweeps our cities. It's not the effect of the Carthaginian spices, which kicked in last turn, and I don't see how it can be the result of our new banks when the luxury rate is 0%.


930 (10): The mysterious happiness disappears as suddenly as it arrived, so I have to MM our cities for contentment for the third time in three turns.

Our knight SoD, fully healed after the difficult battle for Ta-Tu, moves within attack range of Karakorum, with the Army of Darius providing defensive cover.

Despite the pounding they've taken, the Mongols wouldn't give one tech (Metallurgy) for peace even if we were willing to grant it. This aspect of the game is simply broken.

The Greeks, Russians, Carthaginians, and Mongols have Metallurgy, and with the possible exception of Military Tradition there's no other tech in circulation which we don't have.

We're now at 32 elite victories without a Great Leader, in the worst 6% of possibilities.

 

[Northern Pike]

THE FUTURE:


It's probably obvious what we have in mind for Karakorum. [How does one get a smiley to go into the middle of a passage pasted in from Wordpad, rather than at the end?] Once K. has fallen you should be able to conduct the rest of the campaign strictly as an exercise in getting as many (safe) elite attacks as possible.

We have three settlers near the front, so you can raze as you see fit. I'd raze Karakorum and Darhan, but it's a matter of taste.

After Pasargadae completes Bach I'd go right to the palace prebuild for Shakespeare. Not having a bank or even a marketplace in Pas. is costing us a fair amount of gold, but sticking to our fundamental objective there has served us well so far.

The colosseums being built in Persepolis and Susa will be useful eventually, but they aren't essential now if you'd rather switch.

The five workers in the woods next to Firdaus are there to assist the library build with a forest chop. In fact, we have enough workers in the Merv-Firdaus-Isfahan strip to do quite a lot of lumberjacking in aid of library construction, if you're interested.

Apart from that, I have some suggestions for cash-rushes we can't actually afford at the moment. Erdenet, Merv, and Firdaus all need their libraries quickly, due to cultural pressure. Even more optimistically, it would be nice to have a harbour in Shantung so that we could upgrade some galleys near the front.

Erdenet is garrisoned only by a spearman, so keep an eye out for approaching Keshiks.

Over to you, mad-bax.

 

[Northern Pike]

The save:

930 AD, end of turn

 

[Northern Pike]

The Mongol front:

 

[mad-bax]

I hesitate to post this. It's shameful. I don't even have an excuse.
I'll just shove a few magazines down the back of my trousers and hope for the best

Turnlog:

930AD: Pre-turn check OK.

IBT:
Nothing happened

940AD:
Attack on Karakorum
vet knight kills musket
Vet knight kill musket and takes city, which is immediately razed.
Resettle New Persopolis 1 tile away.
Elite knight kills keshik
Elite knight kills Musket in Choybalsan
Elite Knight kills Spear in Choybalsan taking city.

IBT:
Mongol archer attacks and kills vet knight. My fault entirely, inadvertant mouse click put unit on wrong tile. Careless
Pasargadae competes Bachs - Market (I know this is against your advice NP, but I believe we can afford the time to do this).

950AD:
Elite knight kills archer
Attack on Darhan
Vet knight dies against vet musket
vet knight redlines against newly promoted elite musket
vet knight dies against elite musket but redlines it
vet knight kills reg musket
Elite knight kills redlined musket. City is razed.
Land warrior on peninsula only to find we have been beaten there by the ottomans by one turn.

IBT:
Galley is sunk by barb galley. Settler now marooned

960AD:
Found New Pasargadae on inferior tile to prevent Ottomans taking land.
Warrior takes barb camp on peninsula.
Reg knight redlines agains pike in Hoyd.
Vet knight redlines against pike in Hoyd.
Vet knight kills musket in Hoyd
Vet knight redlines against pike in Hoyd
Vet knight is promoted in capturing Hoyd.
Raise Lux to 10% for one turn to prevent riots in 7 cities.

IBT:
Nothing happened

970AD:
Found New Susa
Vet Knight kills musket
Vet knight kills musket and takes Mandelgovi
Elite knight kills archer - and at last....

Decide to delay attack on Last city until Palace is moved.
Trade WM with Russia just to get up to date.
Hurry Market in Pasargadae
Democracy due next turn.

IBT:
Learn Democracy - research Free artistry.
Don't revolt this turn. I'm not sure the builds will complete first or not. Please educate me.
Pasargadae market - MV. (Pre-build)

980:
Waiting

990:
Revolt

IBT:
Lose incense
Banking and printing press to America for incense, 23g, WM and Tmap
Most of the players already have Democracy so I just trade it to Carthage for Metallurgy plus loose change.
We have 205g and are at -80gpt in anarchy. It had better be short.
Greece, Russia and Carthage have MT.

1000AD:
Hurry Palace in River Palace
Lose 2 vet and one elite knight taking Kazan. No Leader.
Peace with Mongols for 4 of their cities, WM + Tmap

1010AD:
Try to Hawk WM. Shouldn't have traded it a few turns ago

IBT:
Russia demand tmap +24g. Since we are in anarchy and we have little defence, I decide not to risk a war against cavalry. I cave.

1020AD:
Still in anarchy. I have messed up big time. we have 21g and still losing 80gpt.

1030AD:
I didn't lose anything for running a deficit. Must be regent level. Feels like cheating.

Here is the <<save>>.

 

[mad-bax]

So we are still in Anarchy with zero gold and losing 80gpt. We are not losing anything because of this.

I just don't know what to do except disband 80 units or some buildings. I just didn't check it before making the switch.

I'm really sorry.

 

[OneFastWarrior]

Great Finnally a GL, Way to go!!

I think that under anarchy, units(militaristic and non) do not cost any gold. (unless this was changed at some point). So, I don't think that they will take things away from you during anarchy.

not sure about this, but that is my take. Yes this game is on Monarch level, so....

Anyway, got the save will play tomorrow after work.

If either of ya have any thoughts B4 then, I will gladly listen.