OFW1 Science and Industry

I didn't raze Nanking. I agree it's poorly placed, but I want to discuss FP placement.

I think it should go in our culture city and will only take a dozen turns to build.

I think the palace should be jumped to a continent with luxes.

When do the Russians get Cossacks and what resources do they need? I think we should look there. Do what we can with the troops we have in China then consolidate and switch to Russia.

What do you think?
 
Got the save. Did we stop with the homeless scientist? I would be ok with the FP in Pasargadae(although it is not in an I deal place) and go for a palace jump(I have never tried this).

Anyway, I am going to watch the 1st half of the Football game and check back later. I Might play my turns tonight, if not I may have to split them up over the next couple of days, I am really busy right now.
 
Good progress versus China. :thumbsup:

Yes, great name for the leader-generating unit. :D

I like the plan of building the Forbidden Palace in Pasargadae and using a leader for a palace jump, but I don't understand why you've gone off our original, and excellent, idea of building our second core in China. We need to establish our second core on good land, and we need to do it as quickly as possible. China satisfies both these conditions, Russia neither. We need to keep attacking, and it would be nice to grab some luxuries, but these considerations are quite separate from the question of where our FP/new palace should go.

The problem with attacking Russia next, it seems to me, is that we'd be expending a lot of effort on a minor threat. If we ask which of our rivals seem likeliest to manage a spaceship launch before we hit 20k, the answer is fairly obvious: Babylon and Greece, two large civs on good land. The whole continent Russia is on, on the other hand, is so poor and miserable (look at America's starting position :lol: ) that the civs occupying it will probably never achieve much.

Given this, I'd rather get started on offensive operations against the Greek/Babylonian/Korean continent. Since amphibious invasions are tricky, it would be easiest to attack the feeble Koreans first, get well established on the continent, and then turn to the Greeks, whose best cities are conveniently close to the Korean border. The Koreans have one luxury (under Seoul) and the Greeks have plenty, so this plan would address our problems in that regard. If you like this idea, OneFastWarrior, you'll want to start positioning some galleys for the invasion of Korea right away, since this process takes forever.

It's also worth bearing in mind that if we realize late in the game that we're in danger of losing to a launch, it'll be easier to organize a quick attack on Russia, which is close to us, than on Greece and Babylon, which aren't.

I also wouldn't object to a war with the Mongols, simply on grounds of ease and opportunity; our forces will be right on their border when we finish up with the Chinese, and with all those unproductive flood-plain cities, they look like pushovers to me. But they have no luxuries, of course.

OneFastWarrior, you can cut three turns off Arbela's time to build Leonardo just by doing a little MM and getting rid of its useless food surplus. This town may not have much chance of getting Leonardo, but it can have a better chance than it has at the moment! ;)

If Arbela doesn't get Leonardo, you can keep the prebuild alive by switching to the palace, of course.

Since we're at the beginning of our minimum tech run anyway, you might want to try the gambit of going for Printing Press rather than Gunpowder. The reasoning is that we're a lot likelier to get Gunpowder from the Great Library than PP, which the AI tends to ignore. PP is also the perfect kind of tech for a forty-turn run, since we want it, but not in any great hurry. Your call.
 
Last edited:
just one note. We have an MA with Mongols vs. China. We would have to let that run it's course(or would we if China is gone?) before we attack. I just don't want to hurt our rep yet.

Edit: I will do the best I can in my 10 turns. I'll try my best to start getting set up for Korea. More boats and Knights.
 
I am probably only going to play 5 turns tonight. I will play the rest tomorrow afternoon. BTW, did either of you see Disruptive's Signature? He gives his reason for not being able to play. In case you were wondering.

I will post the whole report tomorrow.
 
Well, I got up early this morning so that I could post here and retract my rather stupid suggestion for putting the palace in Russia. But I was beaten to it. :o

I Think Nanking should be raised and a leader used to put the palace in the spot we originally chose.

I am poor at micromanagement and missed the chance to cut Arbelas time to Leos. Cutting 3 turns off it will give us a fighting chance I think.

This being the case there is no reason not to take the whole continent. Once China are dead the MA will no longer be in eistence and we can take on the Mongols without damaging our rep.

I did stop the homeless scientist when we got into republic. This was purely because I was unsure what to research. On reflection I think we could research Theology for Bachs.

Last night I thought I had played a fairly decent set of turns, but in the cold light of day things are a little different. Sorry guys.
 
No problem. Generating a leader to gain us the Sistine Chapel, which we couldn't have gotten by any other means, was a coup which outweighs any secondary inaccuracies. We're in an excellent position. :king:
 
To try and redeem myself I have attempted a dot map for the new core. Pink is the capital, yellow gives 4 cities at RCP = 4, there is another site too but would require another razed city.
Green moves Abyliss so that a wheat is not wasted. Black are razed cities.

What do you think?

ofwf.jpg
 
That looks good to me. I have only played 4 turns (got a late start last night and not enough time before I have to goto work this morning) But I have a report of whats goin on. Oh and MM Arbela to get more shields.

Preturn, I check everything and fix 1 town in disorder and 2 more about to go.(You know clowns for give peace a chance People,..bah!!:p ). Change research from Gunpowder to Printing press.

1. 440AD China wants an audience I tell them to go away!!. They take a worker and we kill the horse that took the worker(near abydos). We attack and take Beijing, lost 3 vet Immortals and got one promoted to elite. Cyrus arrives in Pasargadae, He is tired from his journey and takes a nap.

IBT Galley by a barb Island attacked, we win.

2. 450AD Attack Xinjian and take it. Pasargadae finishes Cathederal and switches to Sistine Chapel. Cyrus is awakened and refreshed, He get the Sistine rushed!! :goodjob:
A Chinese Warrior has Killed our vet Immortal.

At this point I realize that I forgot to hire a scientist so I rehire the homeless scientist.

IBT Chinese Archer attacks Immortal and Archer is killed.

And here it is folks!!

OFW_SC.JPG


4. 460AD Sistine Chapel done, switch to prebuild on Palace, but not sure what it is we are prebuilding at this point. I am researching the path towards Shakespears Theatre(very nice culture points) but I am sure we will have to research on our own before then. (I could have built the FP here in 12 turns)

We find a goody hut(probably barbs or empty).

OFW_GH.JPG


Mongols know Gunpowder.

IT another Immortal promoted to Elite. Galley sinks another barb Galley. and we learn gunpowder from the Great Library. Beijing resistance ended.

4. 470AD Tatung taken(no losses) Scientist moved to herat.

I will probably raze Nanking and keep attacking China, There Empire is split down the middle after we took Beijing, They are toast.

Give me anything ya want to say before my other6 turns this afternoon.
 
I vote we put the FP in Pasargadae. Next leader build palace as per dot map unless you have a better suggestion. I think we should set research to complete Theo on the same turn as FP completes and then start Bachs.

Goodjob so far OFW. You made up for my poor play.
 
Theology, huh. I only have been researching PP for 2 turns so not much wasted. still had 38 turns to go. I probably will switch the palace pre to FP. But we will definately need a Leader!! Hopefully that will happen in my next 6 turns. I probably will not raze Nanking or Abydos until we have settlers in place. I see we are building a settler in Giza(almost done) I could probably get 2 settlers out of Perseopolis and send them on there way during my turns also, getting the core going.
 
It was only my random thought. I think Northern Pikes take on the situation would also be valuable.

I doubt the AI could beat us to Bachs. We would get the tech first and have the most productive city too.

It's Leos I doubt we'll get.

But yes, a leader for the palace will be necessary and maybe we'll have the FP and Palace next to each other for a few turns. But in the big picture, we need to stuff as much culture into our culture city as we can, as early as we can. The FP will be built in time to double up later and will shave a couple of turns off our finish date.
 
Fine start, OneFastWarrior.

Mad-bax, I like the dotmap a lot. It won't even be necessary to raze Abydos, since the southern yellow-dot city will have access to both wheat tiles.

I think we should definitely build the Forbidden Palace in Pasargadae. With Pas. and Persepolis being so close together, and since we'll never get the FP or a new palace built in China except with a leader, there's really no downside here.

I assume the discussion of going for Theology is really about the Education-Music Theory tech path which gives access to Bach, since we've already got Theology. ;) The problem with our going first in this direction, of course, is that Education kills the Great Library. So we should probably hold off until the Library gives us Education, and then proceed towards Music Theory as quickly as seems necessary to guarantee us Bach--possibly abandoning our slow run to Printing Press, possibly not, depending on circumstances.
 
Here are the rest of the turns.

5. 480AD Attack and take Canton, lose 1 knight promote 1 to elite. Change Pasargadae to FP (10 turns). I decide to befriend a weak America and trade them Horses and construction for Gems. Russia has 6 extra wines but she wants Chivalry, thats ok, we don't need our troops getting drunk during our wars. Trade WM's around and got some good gold for it. Greece knows Education:(

6. 490AD Our people love us and give us 2 expansions to our palace ( atop on our Palace):D It will be alot harder to move--have you ever seen those oversized loads on the freeways?;)

Look another goody hut.

OFW_AGH.JPG


7. 500AD It would take 17 turns for a galley to reach this hut, but it is next to Mongols and Korea, so... I have started to send a galley in that direction with a knight and Immortals aboard.

8. 510AD Giza completes Settler--to the new capitol spot he goes. attack Tsingtao kill 1 Spear. (no losses)

IBT Mongols Medievil Infantry attack Shanghai. Chinese Archer attacks and kills 1 Immortals.

9. 520AD Perseoplolis back to settlers. Tsingtao taken (no leader yet:( ). Mongols and Russia know Education (there goes the great Library)

I kind of check around to see what kind of trading we could do. We could make a killing in Luxuries from Chivalry from Greece, Russia and Carthage(a total of 4 luxuries and some gpt and straight gold) I decide not to, cause We will probably be going after Mongols next and someone would probably trade it to them. They already know Gunpowder so they will be hard enough as it is. But I left that decision up to NP;)

10. 530AD The Backstabbing chikens*** Mongols break our MA and sign a peace treaty with China:mad: They still had 6 turns left on our MA.
Great Library gives us our final gift.. Education.. and is now obsolete(but not the culture;) ).
We attack and take Shanghai--no leader. and China still has a city.:mad:

We will get Leo's next turn!!:goodjob: and the FP is 5 turns from completion.

I am thinking we should send a galley to both the final Egypt and Chinese cities or sign peace treatys and take care of them after the mongols.

Our forces are rather thin where Egypt and China used to be. we could use a little buildup before we attack mongols or just go in and weaken them severely now?

There are 3 loaded galleys headed towards the area of shanghai by the mongol borders, also halfway to China and Egypt cities. and 6 galleys waiting for troops from the mainland.

goodluck Northern Pike.

Saved Game
 
BTW, I did not raze Naking yet, I was thinking to wait until either the 1st settler was in position or the 1st city was built and the 2nd settler was in position.
 
So much for China! Good going. :thumbsup:

And the Workshop is ours--kick ___! I thought the prebuild in Arbela would come through for us. [dance]

I'm strongly inclined to unhook all our saltpetre so that we can build some infantry at a reasonable cost in shields. To my mind, the design flaw in the game which makes musketmen clearly inferior to pikemen, when cost is taken into account, justifies this tactic. But if either of you think this is an exploit, just let me know and I won't do it. I won't be playing for some hours, so you have time to let me know how you feel.
 
Actually I was going to say the same but for cavalry. We could do both. I don't think this is an exploit.

OFW point is quite important. Do you intend to wait a while before taking on the mongols or are you going to wade into them now? I don't have the save so I am unsure as to how our military is doing. I think we need to generate a leader for the Palace jump ASAP. So I would move all the offensive troops toward Mongolia and backfill defense with muskets from our home continent.
Generating the leader is more important than the land grab ATM IMO.

I certainly think that China and Egypt should be removed from the game on Northern Pikes turn if possible.
 
It would take a galley12 and 15 turns to reach Egypt and China. So, They would not be gone till mad-bax played at the earliest.

OK on the saltpeter, sure, sounds good,but I would rather hook it back up for Cavalry.
I agree, that we do need a leader asap. also, I have only been leaving offensive troops in cities to heal and quell the resistors, then I had been moving them up to the front lines, thus, leaving little to no defense in the cities we have taken. I would just bring in more Offensive troops and start pumping out pikeman on the new continent as the cities start to grow for defense of the new continenet, And keep building Offense on the mainland, Either way it could really take awhile. Also, Our newly aquired cities in Ancient Egypt and Ancient China are not benefitting from our new luxuries. I think a harbor to connect this to our mainland would be a high priority.

thats all I can think of.
 
My apologies for the slow turnaround, gentlemen. I still haven't played. I got into the classic newbie situation, up in three games at the same time, and I thought I might be able to deal quickly with the simpler positions I faced in the other two (wrong! :o ).

I have had a fairly long look at the save, and these are my tentative conclusions:

1. We really can't go to war with the Mongols right away when we have barely more units than cities in Egypt and China (even though this situation is the consequence of our successes :goodjob: ).

2. We should attack the Koreans instead. The delay in landing troops on their coast (seven turns) would be no longer than that in reorganizing our northern front for a war with the Mongols. The Koreans have a luxury, and they're so backward that we should be able to overrun them easily with knights and Immortals.

3. We should just make peace with the Egyptians and Chinese, end our war weariness, and so perhaps improve our unsatisfactory finances. The continued survival of these two civs is irritating but unimportant--and we'd only be granting them twenty turns' grace.

I now intend to play in about ten hours, so if you disagree with this plan of action, let me know.
 
sounds fine to me. I will be pretty busy over the next week, so I may be abit slow when it gets to my turns anyway.
 
Back
Top Bottom