Oghma and Mammon

[Vehem]

Just a quick request for any references to Oghma and Mammon (specifically the battle fought in Oghma's heaven between the two and the state of things now). I suspect Magister can probably recite the passages from memory (always amazes me how much of the lore he can remember) - but any information on the topic from any source would be useful - the conflict is vaguely the base for the next FF civ and I want to make sure I get it right...

 

[MagisterCultuum]

In Kael's D&D campaign, Erebus was Oghma's vault. It was an ancient world filled with many ancient libraries of lost knowledge. Mammon (the evil God of Mind) wanted this knowledge, and launched a huge assault on this world. He was mostly successful in his conquest, but to protect it Oghma (the neutral Goddess of Knowledge) created a thick mist to cover her world, which had the effect of erasing the memory of anyone but her angels (and maybe even them too, but less readily). This made Mammon's demons forget their purpose there, driving those who stayed here insane. There were pirates (Lanun?) who sailed on the mists instead of seas (or possibly on water hidden by the mists). I believe that the Calabim were also present in this game, and that Prespur of the Storms was located near an eternal Maelstrom that served as a passage into the world. I think that humanity entered this plane after the war (or maybe the inhabitants were just people who died and didn't know it), but some "humans" were actually descended from Oghma's angels. Lita the Witch was one of these people. When she was cast down the Cliffs of Hastur, she was taken by one of Mammon's strongest demons (if it was Hastur himself, then it was his Archangel) ad forced to give birth. This was done because with the blood of Oghama's angels flowing through their veins, these demons could travel the mists without forgetting their purpose. Mardero was the last and greatest of these demons.


Of course, this doesn't exactly fit into FfH history. In FfH, Erebus is not Oghma's Vault but a separate plane created by all the Gods acting together. The mist is not there. In this version, Merdero and his brethren were instead bread because their mortal blood allows them to act directly in creation without violating the compact.

 

[xienwolf]

There is a VERY little bit on Oghma in the World Information Resource link on my sig. Other than that, it proves useful to narrow your searches of the threads to just Kael, and list by Post

In this case however... didn't find much at all

EDIT: Heres the best link in the World Resource. Don't bother checking post #2 like Kael advises though, cause he has long since changed that post to just be a unit screenshot

This one has a tad more on the world as well.

 

[Vehem]

Thanks - I'd vaguely remembered the part about Oghma's vault being assaulted, but had completely forgotten that it was the original Erebus setting.

My current thinking would be to keep the general detail of that version (Mammon attacks Oghma's vault) and simply reset it in Oghma's current vault. One part of the original that I recalled was that the conflict devolved into a "siege" rather than a straight assault (probably as a result of the mist), so in this case, part of Oghma's vault would have been overrun by Mammon before the conflict became a static-siege.

The "current" situation would be that some of Mammon's forces occupy part of what once belonged to Oghma, with neither side able to make much progress in the conflict.

There's not really much in the FfH version of the lore to support that, but does it seem contradictory to anything else mentioned in lore? The compact would only prevent direct war between the angels in Creation itself, so it doesn't seem contradictory that one could assault another's vault directly post-compact. Mammon's motivation for doing so would still be valid - knowledge is power and greed seeks power...

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The reason for me needing the two to be linked in such a way is that the new civ's leader believes he is following instructions passed to him directly by one of Oghma's angels, wherein fact the orders are coming from a follower of Mammon. As such his actions are corrupt, despite their initially good intent...

 

[Kael]

As in most things there is a mirror here between the actions of the gods and what is going on in creation.

Mammon attacks Oghma's heaven when Sucellus moves into creation to battle Mulcarn. Mammon's demons are winning the fight but rather than forfeit the libraries and knowledge of his world Oghma releases a mist over his heaven that robs the memory of anyone it touches (except for those few angels of his that survived the attack).

A few mountain peaks stick out fo the mist and Oghma's angels build cities here, bringing people in from creation to populate a new race. Breeding with them to try to restore Oghma's numbers so eventually they can take back the heaven with their mortal offspring.

The mirror in creation is that the knowledge of the Age of Magic has been lost. People fall into darkness as all advances are forgotten through the generations of the Age of Ice. Symbolically these two events are linked.

Now there actual link, is mankind a shadow of the gods actions, are the gods a shadow of mankinds movements, or do they just seem to move together? I would very loosely say that the creation mirrors the actions of the gods, but it isnt anything as literal as you can take it. It is abstract, it is metaphorical, it isn't as direct as "if someone burned a book in Oghmas library on candle making Bob the Candlemaker will instantly forget his craft".

 

[Vehem]

As in most things there is a mirror here between the actions of the gods and what is going on in creation.

Mammon attacks Oghma's heaven when Sucellus moves into creation to battle Mulcarn. Mammon's demons are winning the fight but rather than forfeit the libraries and knowledge of his world Oghma releases a mist over his heaven that robs the memory of anyone it touches (except for those few angels of his that survived the attack).

A few mountain peaks stick out fo the mist and Oghma's angels build cities here, bringing people in from creation to populate a new race. Breeding with them to try to restore Oghma's numbers so eventually they can take back the heaven with their mortal offspring.

The mirror in creation is that the knowledge of the Age of Magic has been lost. People fall into darkness as all advances are forgotten through the generations of the Age of Ice. Symbolically these two events are linked.

Thanks - I actually like that a lot - quite a bit more depth to it than I'd first considered.

The fact that they're brining people in from creation as well suits the background for the Kahdi as it stands at the moment. A servant of Mammon (posing as a servant of Oghma) speaking to a mortal within Oghma's vault, then sending him back to Creation to prepare the people there to serve Oghma - whilst the instructions given serve only to corrupt those who might otherwise go on to help repopulate Oghma's heaven.

At best, the mortals that follow Kadh would be "unsuitable" to join the new race. At worst, the corruption would be unnoticed and the new race itself would be tainted before it was ever truly born.

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The only other thing I can think of that it'd be useful to know at the moment is a bit about Embarr? Nominally considered Male or Female? Where is sie now/did sie survive the original attack?

I'd also work on the assumption that Hastur is otherwise engaged with Danalin these days and so doesn't tend to spend much time in Oghma's vault?