Oh my god, the Sea Beggars are incredible.

[Baron2]

On paper, the Sea Beggar unit look awesome

In patrice, this is an INCREDIBLE unit.

In my first game as Netherlands I built 18 of them.

The unit itself is a bit weak compared to well fortified cities of late Renaissane...but when upraded to destroyers, there is no safe place next to the sea.

It's especially the two bonus abilities that come with the Sea Beggar that make it absolutely mortal : repair at sea and boarding parties.

(You can for instance get ''pack'' of four beggars attack a city, merely put out of range and repair in two turns....)

 

[Pook]

Thank you for posting this.

I had read an earlier thread suggesting that the Netherlands was quite weak, with a UA that no one would use and UU that were not that useful. Naturally, I picked the Netherlands for my first G&K game, as I wanted something akin to vanilla, to see the differences that G&K brings to the game. Instead, I've found that the Dutch UA has a "have your cake and eat 1/2 of it too" effect, as I trade luxury A for luxury B and still get 2 happiness for luxury A. Good to know that the sea beggar is a powerful unit when used properly.

 

[AriochIV]

The Sea Beggar is just a Privateer with two extra promotions. Being able to heal at sea is nice, but the City Raider II promotion any Privateer can get with one skillup.

Being able to capture ships is very nice, but the Privateer can do that too.

 

[Gali]

As you consistently ignore though extra promotions make a unit good much quicker. Yes I can get supply and coastal 2 with another privateer but thats two whole promotions worth of wasted exp, which unless you have some city-state to beat up on takes awhile. Oh and supply means I can heal right now and get those other promotions even quicker. What kind of endless wars are you in that units effective immediately are a complete waste.

 

[Drawmeus]

But bear in mind that the Privateer is a phenomenal warship, not just a raider. A fleet of Privateers and Frigates is a force to be reckoned with. So a UU of a powerful warship with two free promotions is a pretty awesome thing.

The fact that Sea Beggars can effectively raid civs far from your own shores even if you're not capable of projecting a real invasion force that far just makes it that much better.

 

[noncognosco]

The Sea Beggar is just a Privateer with two extra promotions. Being able to heal at sea is nice, but the City Raider II promotion any Privateer can get with one skillup.

Being able to capture ships is very nice, but the Privateer can do that too.

The Samurai is just a Longsword with an extra promotion. The B-17 is just a bomber with extra promotions. Sometimes that makes a big difference.

 

[Gali]

In a city with full miltary buildings and Brandenburg gate my B-17 can have auto repair two attacks, city raider 2 and evasion tight out of the gate. A non B-17 can have 2 city raider and one other promotion, massive difference in effectiveness.

 

[AriochIV]

The Samurai is just a Longsword with an extra promotion.

Yes, but I would hardly call one free promotion "incredible." +2 Strength and two abilities no other military unit has (Legion) is incredible.

 

[Baron2]

Except that no other melee ship can have repair.

 

[Drawmeus]

Yes, but I would hardly call one free promotion "incredible." +2 Strength and two abilities no other military unit has (Legion) is incredible.

I think you're parsing those free promotions wrong. Set aside Repair for a minute. Starting with Coastal Raider 1 doesn't just give it Coastal Raider 1 as an advantage, it gives the unit whatever their top promotion is for free. Promotion 1 gets it Coastal Raider 2. Promotion 2 gets it whatever your normal 3rd promotion would be. Promotion 3 gets it whatever your normal 4th promotion was.

Because the top promotions are both much more expensive and much more powerful than the earliest, having a free Coastal Raider 1 actually means that a Sea Beggar's advantages over a normal Privateer INCREASE as the units gain experience, not decrease.

Repair isn't nothing either, despite that I just set it aside to make the point - it means you can operate your Sea Beggars in continuous raids on either hostile civs or on city states which you can't afford to try and ally with for the moment, far from your own shores, where the political ramifications are less. This means both a steady influx of gold/ships as you win, the possibility of outright conquering a city you might get some use out of (remote as it is), and most importantly, experience for your ships. Sea Beggars should gain experience faster than other Privateers as a result.

 

[Morningcalm]

Technically, the Samurai also has that promotion called "Bushido," you know the one where even if he's nearly dead he does full damage?

 

[AriochIV]

Actually, the Sea Beggar starts with Coastal Raider II (the regular Privateer starts with Coastal Raider I), but I take your point.

Still... is it really "incredible?"

 

[Gali]

That means a barrakcs and armory city can pump out Sea beggars with Coastal three, Supply, and another high level promotion. Do ships get repair or an equivalent, because that would be a killer ship. Also remember gold bonuses from coastal raider stack so a Sea Beggar will also net you some additional gold in most cases, a minor but useful point.

Arioch, you're right that the Samurai isn't all that powerful, though it does also have GG 1 or 2 though. Other free promotion units, minutemen, god are they great now, B-17 Sea Beggar, cant think of any more have much more useful combos.

 

[Drawmeus]

Actually, the Sea Beggar starts with Coastal Raider II (the regular Privateer starts with Coastal Raider I), but I take your point.

Still... is it really "incredible?"

I don't know what line you use for incredible, but it certainly does its job extremely effectively. It's a strong unit.

 

[Baron2]

Being able to heal at sea is incredibly useful, especially for an offensive unit.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but with the new promotions, only the Beggar can heal outside friendly territories (of all the melee ships)

 

[PhilBowles]

The Samurai is just a Longsword with an extra promotion. The B-17 is just a bomber with extra promotions. Sometimes that makes a big difference.

Samurai is a poor example, since it's the Japanese UA rather than the promotion that makes the Samurai such a formidable unit, but the point is generally valid.

 

[Louis XXIV]

I like threads where people think civs are weak and end up liking them. I think this shows that, for the most part, Civ5's civs are well-balanced.

 

[Calouste]

I can't find the new Promotion list online and I'm not near my Civ computer, but does anyone know what promotions follow from Coastal Radier III? In Vanilla the level IV promotion for ships was Logistics, which made your ships about three times as effective because they could attack twice and then move out of the way of the counter atttack. Getting that or a similar promotion at 30XP instead of 60 makes a massive difference.

 

[nokmirt]

I got to them a bit late in my game, but I like their abilities. Especially, the ability to capture defeated naval units. Prize ships I believe.

My navy right now is 4 frigates,1 sea beggar, and a caravel. My other sea beggar just died bravely in battle, attacking an Austrian city. A tip- Grow polders where ever you can. I have a city I built in the desert. I have three polders built in it's radius along a river. The rest I simply filled in with trading posts, and any production improvements mines, a few lumber mills. This place bloomed from size 6 to 14 in no time flat and its still hungry for growth. A desert city my god! Now that's incredible. Also, whoever thinks the AI does not build fleets now is mistaken. The Maya have a huge, huge fleet. My spy Guus tells me that they are gunning for me. Let them come!

 

[smallfish]

Prize Atomics...

I only hope this werks.