[GS] Ok so what do Rock Bands actually do?

[Pepperlet]

Thanks for trying.

I've finally had a chance to follow up on this. It seems that the excessive domestic tourists problem can be reproduced. I've shared a link to a non-modded single player game where I am about to launch the moon landing with about 700 science per turn. Upon getting the moon landing, you can see the expected 70 tourist gain the next turn but this number continues to increase for no reason.

Domestic tourists go from:
166 to
238 (expected) to
297 to
352 to
399 and so on

Link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qA_KaqINufDwHmy9OGOjOw0v41Cc9rke/view

Is this report-able?

 

[Zenstrive]

For some reasons I have had a hungary rock band playing at my wonder yielding 10000 tourism.
HUH? WHY IS THAT?

 

[Victoria]

Is this report-able?

sure, feel free, someone else will have to.

HUH? WHY IS THAT?

High album sales, even from other civs affects your civs tourism loss to rock bands, game design is so hard to get right

Anyways, someone else write a guide. Firaxis is crap at it.

 

[Pepperlet]

sure, feel free, someone else will have to.

I've posted it in the bug reports section but it doesn't seem to be gaining any traction and is lost in the mix of people reporting visual bugs that aren't breaking the game. Is there a better way to get it through to Firaxis?

 

[Laurana Kanan]

Is there a better way to get it through to Firaxis?

2K Support

 

[KyivanRusCivPlease]

@Victoria so to make a long story short: do we need to target our next biggest rival (a civ with most domestic tourists) with rock bands?

 

[AsparustheSaiyan]

sure, feel free, someone else will have to.

High album sales, even from other civs affects your civs tourism loss to rock bands, game design is so hard to get right

Anyways, someone else write a guide. Firaxis is crap at it.

Just out of curiosity what civ do you think is better for even making rock bands? By this I mean which civ has the best chance at making several of them. I'm going to assume it's good faith generating civs right?

 

[GimliLegolas]

I haven't gone through all the posts but no one seems to have mentioned this point. If you wait until you get the policy to choose the rock bands promotion, you choose the "city loses 50 loyalty" promotion and then place two rock bands in the same city, play concerts in the same turn and they will revolt. You then just need a small army to capture the free city. If you are really patient you can wait to see if the free city will flip to you. If you are really patient and build 10 rock bands you can decimate other civs

 

[Victoria]

@Victoria so to make a long story short: do we need to target our next biggest rival (a civ with most domestic tourists) with rock bands?

Yes, you get more value from doing so. If you have run out of wonders with them then having the turn it up to 11 promotion can work with a civ next door. This promotion also can also make an exception but only in very rare cases as the reduction of domestic tourists from your highest rival is really between 2x and 8x the value not just twice as quoted before. I can explain if you want.

which civ has the best chance at making several of them

naturally faith making ones are really good but I cannot stress enough that running rock bands earlier is better than later so one may argue that it is the strong culture makers that will reach rock bands first. Pericles with religion and harvest goddess is OP strong in this regard... but maybe getting culture from your religious building may turn out better than harvest goddess purely from a rock bands view.

If you are really patient and build 10 rock bands you can decimate other civs

if that is what you want to do but you will likely be doing so not to win a CV as speed is of the essence, when these civs start moon landings it gets harder to beat them. However... for CV victory (which is the intention) realistically you can get 2 promotions if you had saved faith, in this case taking the competitor with the highest domestic tourism’s best city will slow their domestic tourists, strip out all their works before the city falls back to them. I think expecting to get 10 rock bands that can reduce city loyalty is expecting a lot but is possible if you have faith.

I have stopped playing now and just popped on to see if things had changed decently which they have not. Lots of OP tools and civs in the game, even when things go bad it is not just rock bands but ski slopes that allow you to still win a CV. Just not my cup of tea anymore personally. Have fun and keep rockin.
V

 

[AsparustheSaiyan]

Yes, you get more value from doing so. If you have run out of wonders with them then having the turn it up to 11 promotion can work with a civ next door. This promotion also can also make an exception but only in very rare cases as the reduction of domestic tourists from your highest rival is really between 2x and 8x the value not just twice as quoted before. I can explain if you want.
naturally faith making ones are really good but I cannot stress enough that running rock bands earlier is better than later so one may argue that it is the strong culture makers that will reach rock bands first. Pericles with religion and harvest goddess is OP strong in this regard... but maybe getting culture from your religious building may turn out better than harvest goddess purely from a rock bands view.
if that is what you want to do but you will likely be doing so not to win a CV as speed is of the essence, when these civs start moon landings it gets harder to beat them. However... for CV victory (which is the intention) realistically you can get 2 promotions if you had saved faith, in this case taking the competitor with the highest domestic tourism’s best city will slow their domestic tourists, strip out all their works before the city falls back to them. I think expecting to get 10 rock bands that can reduce city loyalty is expecting a lot but is possible if you have faith.

I have stopped playing now and just popped on to see if things had changed decently which they have not. Lots of OP tools and civs in the game, even when things go bad it is not just rock bands but ski slopes that allow you to still win a CV. Just not my cup of tea anymore personally. Have fun and keep rockin.
V

Russia is absolutely fantastic at getting to rock bands really quick thanks to choral music and Lavra's.

 

[Victoria]

Russia is absolutely fantastic at getting to rock bands really quick thanks to choral music and Lavra's.

Sure, you may consider them first, personally I feel they are second to Pericles as Peri is a culture fiend. TBH, Rock bands do not even come into the equation with Peri, he can win faster than he can get to Rock bands.
Rock band are for tourism top up if you cannot get fast enough in a game. That seems to be their intention with design. With peaceful play getting great deals at the moment a peaceful CV will likely be faster on any difficulty.

 

[Pepperlet]

@Victoria you have noted that your game has been showing enemy domestic tourists drop on the same turn as the rock concert but it doesn't appear to do that for me:

Start of turn
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-uYgbjSibTYAop4rjywzbOGR2LxnYxuV
Mvemba domestic tourists 473, 111 foreign tourists from Kongo, 451/474 needed for victory

Epic concert
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1NdxsUX13rPenyAEf9-3KMeqMxrAhMtNn

Post-concert, same turn
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-UZNLispuCXTNvjgXoZNHsX1aInTqBVi
Mvemba domestic tourists 473 (same), 135 foreign tourists from Kongo (increased), 451/474 needed for victory (same)

Built ski resort same turn which seems to re-calculate total foreign tourists but not Mvemba's domestic tourists
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1EnWLzTIBJ6zkgdFqijpL_H-LomEyjVxI
Mvemba domestic tourists 473, 135 foreign tourists from Kongo, 482/474 needed for victory (now properly calculated)

Once you hit next turn, I think it probably does all balance out in terms of accounting for the domestic tourists you took, but it’s harder to know for sure by that point because their new domestic tourists as well as other cultures’ foreign tourism has also been calculated.

 

[Archon_Wing]

So does Rock Band get affected by modifiers such as different governments and such?

I've noticed I've just been better off just not switching to a t3 government until I've spent all my faith in Theocracy for Rock Bands. Basically I go Cold War before t3 gov and sometimes I don't switch because the Rock Bands have won already.

 

[Victoria]

you have noted that your game has been showing enemy domestic tourists drop on the same turn as the rock concert but it doesn't appear to do that for me:

When I did a test at the beginning of this post the enemy domestic tourists dropped yes. Pre patch and no mods.

Built ski resort same turn which seems to re-calculate total foreign tourists but not Mvemba's domestic tourists

Yes, you can get a city tourism change on your main screen but the %calcs and application happen at the end of turn. So yes perhaps there is a recalc here.

So does Rock Band get affected by modifiers such as different governments and such?

The test I did earlier in this post indicated not but it was one off and not thorough. I have noticed in one game I had a -40% modifier for governments so it appears the -20 is likely affected by the era difference also. -40% is quite crippling so I dropped back to theocracy before using UB40 to win.

I guess I could stoke up an old game and do some analysis, Seems to be of value to the thread I guess. Weirdly my son who has never played civ and loves LOL has just taken it up because a mate has who is watching some god awful streamer for advice because he is entertaining... gah.

 

[Archon_Wing]

h. I have noticed in one game I had a -40% modifier for governments so it appears the -20 is likely affected by the era difference also.

There's an era difference??

Weirdly my son who has never played civ and loves LOL has just taken it up because a mate has who is watching some god awful streamer for advice because he is entertaining... gah.

When better advice is nearby.... but this is not uncommon.

 

[Victoria]

There's an era difference??

Seems to be, I guess I had better work it out. I know If I have democracy and they have racism it’s -20. I am also presets sure democracy vs monarchy was also -20 so either they have changed something or it is about the current era...but -40% it was, ‘twas a little shocked when I first saw I was-40% to Gorgo.

When better advice is nearby..

Yah, my boy asked me for advice, he’s a good lad, his mate is a bit hard to describe but best practices are not high on his list.

 

[Victoria]

@Pepperlet
OK just ran a test, I fired off 3 rock bands (for 5250 tourism) with Kupe in the same turn
Here is the victory screen before and after the the same turn. So domestic tourism no longer effects in the same tuirn or I miis saw last time I tried but note Kuope's briefcase has updated.

If we look at the kupe detail screens it becomes clearer

T164 before rock bands

T164 after rock bands (going to rerun to check where that 6 tourism suddently has come from)

T165

So... Lifetime tourism is being updated in the detail popup (which is doing a call to the DB I imagine)
The main screen is not being updated BUT...
if you close it and open it again after doing something else you will find that your tourism will rise for the rock bands...
however Kupoe's domestic does not change for another turn.

How you can get the tourists vbefore they leave the country is beyond me.
One thing with testing is always try and refresh screen, it is easy to make mistakes with stale data.

I would provide that screen but I forgot the refresh on the first run so did iot again with differeing band results ... but you seem like a tester tso try yourself, just remember to refresh... tool tips tend to query the DB and be more accurate.

 

[Victoria]

Maybe it is possible to roll a zero (which I have not seen), in that case the max range values are wrong and one above what they should theoretically be.

I decided to try and iron this one out so I went to rand_calls.csv, left the huge list of random calls unfiltered and sorted on the max range then roll. I looked through the file and the max range is never met by any random calls but 0 happens a lot.
I also checked my hundreds of spy attempts and lo and behold... 0's are present but not 216.
This would then make your 160 an 8 and not a 9 answering the issue... Why it got a 1 star and not a 2 as you surmised?

What we do not know is how it deals with a 196 roll with regard to 3d6. Does it discard and roll again? or does it do something fancier? If I was to discard the lower rolls then I get tables like this... would this be the wrong way to do it? % chances are the colours , this may not be the right way to come up with the final solution if it rerolls. @ggmoyang and @Karmah and any other maths whizzes out there?
Is the table on the left close enough to reality to use?

 

[Karmah]

I decided to try and iron this one out so I went to rand_calls.csv, left the huge list of random calls unfiltered and sorted on the max range then roll. I looked through the file and the max range is never met by any random calls but 0 happens a lot.
I also checked my hundreds of spy attempts and lo and behold... 0's are present but not 216.
This would then make your 160 an 8 and not a 9 answering the issue... Why it got a 1 star and not a 2 as you surmised.

May I trouble for the actual volume of random calls studied?
Even better, could you share it?

 

[Victoria]

May I trouble for the actual volume of random calls studied?
Even better, could you share it?

Well the volume of random calls for checking the 0 and max values was thousands.... just go into your log directory and bring up the rand_calls.csv file.

Studying rock concerts ... the volumes are not so great because it all takes time
DanQ has a file here stats sheet Dan Q

I pasted mine in and am not near my main PC where I think I still have them but the pasted values are here
First Vic paste
Second Vic Paste

Now before you go too far about how fewer values there are, in the units.xml file it states
<Unit_RockbandResults_XP2>
<!--BaseProbability needs to be within 3 and 18. Must be specified from highest BaseProbability to lowest-->
and so we can assume it is a 3d6 roll which the the stats seem to follow out.

If you are wanting to help validate then thats great and I will post some more findings when I get a chance but it does look like what Dan says it true... it is just getting some of the finer points right as I am writing up a guide.