Old School vs. Next Gen

[Tani Coyote]

Nearly every game has gone through the "old school" and "next gen" split.

For purposes of debate, the dividing area between these games is roughly ~2000. But due to different series, it can be whenever; the games certainly do split at different times, though generally follow a trend due to new console releases.

The old school years are filled with nostalgia, the next gen years are filled with technology and re-inventions of series.

For examples of what I mean, contrast:

Sonic the Hedgehog

Sonic 1 to pre-Sonic Adventure: 2D gameplay reigned supreme, with a simple point A to point B.

Sonic Adventure onwards: The plot became an actual plot, voices were introduced, some designs redone however slightly, and, unfortunately, new character spam galore.

Crash Bandicoot

People always critique Sonic, but Crash has fallen hardest of all. He went from nearing Sonic and Mario to being a nobody. Compare the old school area of Crash 1 to Wrath of Cortex to Twinsanity(Which was a bit of a bridge) and the games from Crash of the Titans onward. Gameplay has enormously changed; Crash's original gameplay has shifted into melee brawls and he even GETS DIZZY FROM SPINNING. That's like Sonic losing health if he runs too fast!

There's probably better examples in series such as Zelda and Mario, but I don't feel like researching those. Tough cookies.

So, the ultimate question is, which do you prefer?

You can mean in general, or to each specific series.

My answer:

I'm neutral, not really fetishising over either group in any case. I don't consider a series "meant" to be something; if I like the game, I like the game.

1. I like old school Sonic and next gen Sonic. Shadow. I was also born in 1992, so unlike some people, I can move on with the times. I believe Sonic Adventure 2 to be the best Sonic game.

2. I played Super Mario Sunshine and actually found it enjoyable; I've never really played the originals however, obviously.

3. I think Twinsanity was the best Crash game: the rampant humor combined with the gameplay made it for me. I did like the originals however, but I have a little bit of a mix of dislike/liking for the newer re-design games.

Overall, I'm not really biased towards any time period; I give every game a try if it looks good enough. I liked Sonic Unleashed(apart from the excessive Werehog playing times) and Sonic and the Black Knight, but I also abhorred Shadow the Hedgehog 2005 and Sonic 2006.

 

[Thrawn]

Old school vs next gen is kind of irrelevant for me. If I enjoy the game then I'll play it.

 

[Maniacal]

Old school vs next gen is kind of irrelevant for me. If I enjoy the game then I'll play it.

I don't really like it when people do this but it kind of is all I can say.

/thread

 

[Omega124]

For Sonic, I am a old-school, and proud of it. Unlike what crap you spew at me, can you really justify the need of a Emo Black Sonic? I mean, they were originally going to have Metal Sonic as the role as Shadow in SA2 (Only without Maria, and the horrible lack of personality, but I guess he wasn't just emo yet. At this point, he was just a bland anti-hero), and I think the decision to go with Shadow killed off the Sonic series. Sonic Heroes was meh, not bad nor good, but the amount of *** Metal Sonic (Whom is my favorite character, which doesn't help my hatred for Shadow) kicked was phenomenal. Too bad he never did something like that again. StH was just horrific. Shadow crossed the line of boring anti-hero to a full on whiny emo, and the guns. Dear god, what was Sega thinking adding guns to Sonic? Too bad it just got worse with Sonic 2006. I had to cry myself to sleep the first (and only time) I ever played it. Sonic is as slow as molasses, Shadow still uses vehicles even though he's like 9x faster on foot, and Silver just added Sonic clone #9894335287579490, only this one has crappy controls and is most likely the slowest character in the entire series. Unleashed, however, was a step in the right direction. If it was just the day levels, I would say it would rival the old Adventure games (Which I'll admit I loved), and possibly the old 16 bit games. But the night levels just killed it. Why combine Altered Beast with Sonic, Sega? AB is a pretty awesome arcade game you made there, Sega, it's one of your best. But what was the point of combining it with Sonic? The controls, as always, were crappy, slow, and the jazz. Though the Daytime levels, as I said, a giant leap in the right direction. (For the sake of my sanity, I have abstained from going into the spin-off games)

The next Sonic game? Sonic 4! They are going back to the style Sonic deserves to be in, and if this is as anywhere as good as Mega Man 9 was (Haven't tried 10 yet), I'd say Sonic is officially saved, as long as they don't pull another crappy title afterwards (Or even worse, make /Sonic 4/ crappy).

Now, to defend the old games.

There is an actual plot. It's called reading the manual and watching the cutscenes. In fact, Sonic CD had anime-like cutscenes, which were quite good. And hats off to Sonic 3, who, at least to me, could tell a coherent and entertaining story without a single line of dialogue. Too bad modern games can't pull that off.

Also, the simplicity means simple and unbroken controls. Sonic actually moves fast, and using special techniques is just a button and d-pad movement away. Also, no guns, no vehicles, no PSI abilities, no swords, and no other gimmicks. You'd use Sonic's speed, Tail's flight, and Knuckles' strength against foes, like the way it should be. Just jump on them, roll into them, and in the case of the latter, glide or punch into them.

Also, no VAs is a good thing. Even without the horrible swap from the regular VAs into the 4kidz VAs from SonicX because Eggman's VA died in StH, one of the charms of the old games was the ability to imagine your /own/ voices for them. After all, in your opinion, who could choose the correct voices better than yourself? You can imagine the conversations going on.

Well, I hope Tanicus, that you see I have actual reasons to defend the Old School games other than "THEY CHANGED IT NOW IT SUCKS", even though I'll admit the changes they did is what killed the series (But, as seen in the Daytime levels in Unleashed, there is such things as a good change).

 

[Tani Coyote]

For Sonic, I am a old-school, and proud of it. Unlike what crap you spew at me, can you really justify the need of a Emo Black Sonic?

So missing somebody who died, and wanting to keep a promise you made to them makes you "emo"?

Very well; I shall call you emo whenever someone you love dies and you mourn, and also if they beg you to do something for them as a dying wish and you agree to do it.

Furthermore, the "OMFG it's Sonic!" thing has gone way out of hand. Metal Sonic... understandable; he's a clone supreme. Shadow... mmkay, when it's dark, the similarity between blue and black makes it possible. But a WHITE hedgehog being Sonic? That's just going too far. Maybe Amy's just ******** though.

I mean, they were originally going to have Metal Sonic as the role as Shadow in SA2 (Only without Maria, and the horrible lack of personality, but I guess he wasn't just emo yet.

Wanting to avenge somebody you were devoted to is a "lack of personality"? Are you serious? Never mind he is cold-hearted.

They may not be heroic traits, but he is cold-hearted, polite, honest - for the most part - and above all, devoted to whatever cause he has.

I think the decision to go with Shadow killed off the Sonic series.

No, I'd say corporate greed is what killed it if anything; they ignored the fans for so long and produced one potboiler after another. Then they finally attempted to try and listen to fans, and bring back the Adventure and Classic series in some way, and bam, Unleashed and Black Knight.

StH was just horrific. Shadow crossed the line of boring anti-hero to a full on whiny emo, and the guns. Dear god, what was Sega thinking adding guns to Sonic?

For once, I can agree with you; my review of the game shows you I think it was terrible, which says a lot considering I'm a fan of his. I was SO excited when I heard about it, and enjoyed the first level... and then all Hell broke loose. Bad voices, ******** plot, ******** gameplay - Shadow has so much power according to every previous source; WHY THE HELL DOES HE NEED A GUN?! And if he's as fast as Sonic with his shoes, why does he need a vehicle?

You can make a game GTA and be successful; Jak 2 pulled it off. Sega did it horribly; vehicles for one were pointless in such linear stages, and guns are pointless for a character who's supposedly as power-packed as Shadow: he has chaos ammunition in his body!

Too bad it just got worse with Sonic 2006. I had to cry myself to sleep the first (and only time) I ever played it. Sonic is as slow as molasses, Shadow still uses vehicles even though he's like 9x faster on foot, and Silver just added Sonic clone #9894335287579490,

Satan called; he says he's skating to work now. Hell has frozen over, since I agree with you again. Those "speed" segments are nightmares, I again have my grievances with Shadow's gameplay(at least they started giving him his chaos powers back), and Silver was okay but could be frustrating.

If it was just the day levels, I would say it would rival the old Adventure games (Which I'll admit I loved), and possibly the old 16 bit games.

There is hope, as you at least are not a rabid 3D hater.

But the night levels just killed it. Why combine Altered Beast with Sonic, Sega? AB is a pretty awesome arcade game you made there, Sega, it's one of your best. But what was the point of combining it with Sonic? The controls, as always, were crappy, slow, and the jazz. Though the Daytime levels, as I said, a giant leap in the right direction. (For the sake of my sanity, I have abstained from going into the spin-off games)

The Werehog wouldn't have been so bad if it didn't take 20-30 minutes a level.

Or if they made all stages like Eggmanland, which was an interesting - and HELL ON EARTH - combination of day/night gameplay, and was probably one of the hardest stages I've played in a while.

The next Sonic game? Sonic 4! They are going back to the style Sonic deserves to be in, and if this is as anywhere as good as Mega Man 9 was (Haven't tried 10 yet), I'd say Sonic is officially saved, as long as they don't pull another crappy title afterwards (Or even worse, make /Sonic 4/ crappy).

They're going to have a homing attack in that, by the way, I was told. That will be fun for sure.

There is an actual plot. It's called reading the manual and watching the cutscenes. In fact, Sonic CD had anime-like cutscenes, which were quite good. And hats off to Sonic 3, who, at least to me, could tell a coherent and entertaining story without a single line of dialogue. Too bad modern games can't pull that off.

I prefer a more in depth story, and I feel Sonic Adventure 2's was very coherent if you listen to it; for instance, if you look at the context, you find out that Shadow was the real villain all along(even if, again, it turns out there's yet ANOTHER true antagonist, Gerald), as he knew the ARK would crash into Earth.

Also, no VAs is a good thing. Even without the horrible swap from the regular VAs into the 4kidz VAs from SonicX because Eggman's VA died in StH, one of the charms of the old games was the ability to imagine your /own/ voices for them. After all, in your opinion, who could choose the correct voices better than yourself? You can imagine the conversations going on.

I liked those regular VAs quite much, as they fit their roles and didn't make me want to plug my ears; I hate Shadow's new voice with an absolute passion, as it is so vastly inferior to David Humphrey's words cannot describe it.

Well, I hope Tanicus, that you see I have actual reasons to defend the Old School games other than "THEY CHANGED IT NOW IT SUCKS", even though I'll admit the changes they did is what killed the series (But, as seen in the Daytime levels in Unleashed, there is such things as a good change).

Well, most people who dislike Shadow tend to be those who are stuck in the 90s and can't move on with the times, so I generalise a lot. They're also people who want nothing but speed: no modern graphics, no real plot other than the paper thin one, and WRYYY over something as simple as Sonic's eyes being green rather than brown. WTH, really.

I'll defend the old school titles, but to expect me to call them the pinnacle - as those who fetishise Sonic 1, Sonic 2, Sonic 3, or Sonic CD do - would just be insane.

I'm eager to see what they pull off in 2011, however, given their recent progress(I especially loved Black Knight; I might just be biased because of Shadow's awesome, if short, role in it); my hope is that it will displace Sonic Adventure 2 as my favorite game. ...Hope. Sega has crushed my hopes one too many times.

 

[GoodGame]

It seems like a false dichotomy at times, and only relevant if you have definite periods. E.g. 1970-1980s arcade games vs. PS3 games.

I like old-school in that I enjoy some modern shmups, but not sure if that means 'revisionist' shmups or not.

 

[cardgame]

Old school is usually better.

Perfect examples would be Sonic and NFS, quite possibly some others too.

 

[azzaman333]

Super Smash Bros Melee remains unsurpassed as the greatest game of all time.

And new Pokemon is just as good as old Pokemon, despite the nostalgia.