On balancing war and peace

[Provolution]

On balancing war and peace

First I must I am new to this game, and should not be too direct about my obervations. However, I have seen two-three main camps develop along the lines of security policy and economic policy.

The Keshik Party

The Keshiks, primarily represented by Dutchfire, wants to build Mongol Power on total military domination of the continent, eliminating Rome and Germany.
His preferred civics are based on the acquisition of the German Pyramids, with a base in the present Bureaucracy of None of the Above and an inclination to for Slavery in order to accelerate production. By the gain of the Pyramids, the Keshiks seek to select Representation and thus use the conquest of the pyramids to trigger a revolution to sort out the civics.


Keshiks
Hereditary Rule/Representation (German War dependent), Bureaucracy, Slavery, mercantilism and paganism.


The Silk Trail Party

The Silks, represented by Grant, wants to have a more peaceful economic development of the nation, coexisting with Rome and Germany. His preferred civics are conservative, with Hereditary rule as the core, but also a reform to organized religion later, and a leaning to go for Caste System.

The Silks
Hereditary Rule, Bureaucracy, Caste System, decentralization and organized religion.

The Harem Party

The Harems, represented by Provolution, wants it all. The Harems wants to bridge those two camps, by completing the elimination of the furious Romans and coexisting peacefully with the Germans until Rifling and a Napoleonic War for the continent, well ahead of the Germans getting their UU Panzer, and well after the obsoletion of the Chichen Itza, depriving them of the defense bonus.

The Harem Party wants a major treaty with the Germans, trading Bureaucracy and Civil Service for Monotheism, Feudalism, 50 gold and German conversion to Confucianism. These technologies allows a major revolution to vassalage, serfdom and organized religion, maintaining Hereditary Rule. The core idea is to boost our production and workers and using Germany as a partner in facing the new continent, we may use their panzer as useful allies, or we may kill them.

The Harems
Hereditary Rule, Vassalage, Serfdom, Decentralization and organized religion.


This is a summary of the three main political motions within the mongol empire.

 

[grant2004]

Looking at the vassalage civic it would also give us +13 free units, saving us 15 gold per turn (unit cost for 13 units + inflation), this makes it more effective at reducing the deficit than our current civic, by a few gold per turn, therefore it might be worth a switch.

As for the other civics, I would definitely support a change to mercantilism and caste system. This would allow us to create 13 free specialists, if we chose all merchants, that would create 42 gold per turn (equal to our current deficit) before the benefits of marketplaces and such.

Therefore I would suggest that we continue the war with Rome, until we are able to get feudalism in a peace treaty. Then we would convert to vassalage and retreat our units back into home territory. After that we would push towards banking so that we can make the big conversion. All the while we would continue our policy of building as many cottages as possible. Hopefully this could revive our economy relatively quickly.

 

[Provolution]

This is why we need organized religion (Monotheism) in order to produce 25 % more/faster buildings and serfdom (Feudalism), to get 50 % more/faster cottages. I say we go with the German deal.

 

[dutchfire]

Thanks for mentioning me

As labor civic, I'd like to use slavery now, whipping some economical buildings, and when we've finished banking we should switch to Caste System.

 

[Provolution]

I think slavery is the way we should not go, we need Feudalism for serfdom and vassalage. Vassalage gives us 13 free units, and will save us some money, even though we pay more for the civics. Serfdom makes our workers build roads, cottages and goods improvements 50 % faster. Monotheism is a small bonus we could ask the Romans to throw in for the peace accords, as I guess they will not part with feudalism.

 

[dutchfire]

Vassalage will not save us money at all, as we'll lose the bonus in NotA, Slavery beats Serfdom any time of the day and OR is just way too expensive.

 

[fed1943]

Just trying to understand: are Romans and/or Germans dangerous or not?

Some say, in war and diplomatic threads, they are not; then,in next city

site, the same point a lot of treacherous evil things they will do, if they can.

Best regards,

 

[dutchfire]

At the moment, the Germans aren't dangerous, but they might become dangerous in the future. The AI can upgrade their units at ridiculous prices, so when they get some techs, their military will immediately improve a lot.

Rome isn't dangerous at the moment, and probably won't be dangerous in the future.

 

[ordinaryguy]

Well currently we have 389 gold in the treasury and losing 42gpt at 50% science. This is quite a lot. I almost never let myself lose this much money.

However, it is not too big a problem. There are two solutions,

1) Continue warring. But we must capture cities to compensate for the deficit research

2) Peaceful rebuilding of our economy. Cottage spam. Build windmills. Spread Confucianism etc.

I like to play more of the 2nd option but the first is fine with me too, provided we have the forces to take out the Romans and Germans within the next 25 turns. It may take longer than expected, but we shouldn't let the war drag on too long. Otherwise, it's going to hurt.

Essentially, I think that we have to make a focused choice. We can't build markets and macemen at the same time without inhibiting our progress.

 

[Provolution]

I think we need a major civics change (vassalage, serfdom and organized religion) and more workers to work our vast empire.

 

[dutchfire]

Well currently we have 389 gold in the treasury and losing 42gpt at 50% science. This is quite a lot. I almost never let myself lose this much money.

However, it is not too big a problem. There are two solutions,

1) Continue warring. But we must capture cities to compensate for the deficit research

2) Peaceful rebuilding of our economy. Cottage spam. Build windmills. Spread Confucianism etc.

I like to play more of the 2nd option but the first is fine with me too, provided we have the forces to take out the Romans and Germans within the next 25 turns. It may take longer than expected, but we shouldn't let the war drag on too long. Otherwise, it's going to hurt.

Essentially, I think that we have to make a focused choice. We can't build markets and macemen at the same time without inhibiting our progress.

The few cities that don't have economical builds left, like NotA, can build enough military for our military campaigns. One thing I would like to point out is that it really doesn't matter that much how our economy looks, as long as we stay ahead of or at almost the same pace as our neighbours. As long as they don't outrun us, we'll be able to dominate the continent. As long as we're the strongest civ on the continent, not much can go wrong, as our economy will only be able to improve and our territory will be big enough to outpace any AI.

 

[Provolution]

Well, heard about imperial strain ? Civ4 is built to harness wild expansion with infrastructure, or the economy will falter, as it does now. We already dominate the continent by a strong margin, and I am not afraid of neither German nor Roman. Yet, I think we should be more worried about what is outside the continent. We need a strong continent to handle what comes from overseas.

Civ4 AI is much much better at handling naval operations and landings.

The only thing we need now, is a strong economic resurgence. And yes, I know the mongols, and their keshiks very well, through the demogames at Apolyton, CGN and now this one. The militarist party always seem to break the economy at the back of continuous military efforts. This is what I call a North Korea strategy, an army with a country, not a country with an army.

We need to get out of this mindset, and fix our economy before we conquer the rest of the cities. We cannot chew more than we can digest.

 

[fed1943]

"An army with a country - a country with an army". Really liked.

Since I am a builder at heart, I want:

Wars to be as quick as possible; wars not to come back (like a cat who keeps

the mouse to have fun again); wars when we want and not when we are

forced to.

And to preparation, just one/two/three high production cities building "war

materials" while most of cities build the economy.

Best regards,

 

[ordinaryguy]

The few cities that don't have economical builds left, like NotA, can build enough military for our military campaigns. One thing I would like to point out is that it really doesn't matter that much how our economy looks, as long as we stay ahead of or at almost the same pace as our neighbours. As long as they don't outrun us, we'll be able to dominate the continent. As long as we're the strongest civ on the continent, not much can go wrong, as our economy will only be able to improve and our territory will be big enough to outpace any AI.

We are already dominating the continent! I don't think they will be able to outrun or outpace us now.