On Evolving Into the Paragon

[Civkid1991]

another question... you said this would include the dragon cult. the dragons, would they be like high level or is it like a baby-dragon-growing-up-to-adult-dragons type of thing?

 

[QES]

another question... you said this would include the dragon cult. the dragons, would they be like high level or is it like a baby-dragon-growing-up-to-adult-dragons type of thing?

Im uncertain if the cult could be paragonized. Im ambivilant on it.
-Qes

 

[Civkid1991]

ok... i was wondering about that. I think you should update that in the first post

btw, i think its spelled " ambivalent", isn't it?

 

[thomas.berubeg]

If the dragons were Paragonized, wouldn't it just be possible to have a few dragon "hereos," and the rest of your units more "reptilian".

buildings would be caves and holes in the ground

 

[QES]

If the dragons were Paragonized, wouldn't it just be possible to have a few dragon "hereos," and the rest of your units more "reptilian".

buildings would be caves and holes in the ground

I suppose the Lizzard Folk might be able to find a home. Kobolds need love too.
Why not a few of you write up what the paragon would look like after its DONE.

I think this whole idea needs to start at a finished product and work backwards, instead of the other way around.
-Qes

 

[Shadowsong0]

Well some ideas might be mentioned already but i like to deliver my suggestions in one wrapped up package, so please don't be offended if you mentioned something similar before


A 4 step way to paragon sounds like the most appropriate way to go, but i do not like any "holy city" or "specific race" requirements. If some orc barbarians want to devote themselves to the defence of order, so why not. Fun is all about choices.

So here is what i cought up so far:

Step One - Shaping the world

Spoiler :

Obviously you have to have a responding state religion and at least three temples (2 on duel and small maps) build to the religion before you can take the first step of becoming a paragon. The first step should weaken the civilisation considerably.

To start you have to build a national wonder (yes, more than one civ can do that per religion)

(wonder)
- +2 diplomatic bonus with nations of the same religion (faithful)
- -2 diplomativ relation with all other religions (fanatic)
- all non corresponding temples are destroyed
- all non corresponding religions are purged
- all workers you own are destroyed
- building normal workers is disabled
- if you are not OO all slaves you own will be destroyed, too
- you can upgrade your temple to a "nexus" of the corresponding religion

* nexus
- gives +2 happiness with corresponding statereligion
- gives a +8 unrest with all other statereligions
- prevents other religions to spread in that city
- gives access to religion specific workers (called shapers from now on)

- FOL gives Woodsman I to all newly build units in that city
- Kilmorph gives Guerilla I promotion to all newly build units in that city
- OO gives Amphibious to all newly build units in that city
- Cult gives Woodsman I to all newly build units in that city
- nothing for Veil / Order


*FOL-shapers
- Woodsman II promotion
- can work ressource tiles normally
- can not chop wood
- terraform all terrains to forest
- can build
# Elven Farm
# Elven Pasture
# Elven Plantation
(yes, that's no elven cottages, mines or new roads for you)

*Kilmorph shapers
- Guerilla II II promotion
- can work ressource tiles normally
- terraform all terrains to hills
- can build
# Cottage
# Roads
# Dwarven Mines
(no farms, sorry, you are about money and production, not population)

*Order shapers
- can work ressource tiles normally
- transform all terrains into grassland
- can build
# Cottage
# Roads
# Mines
# *Efficient Farm (like normal farm with an additional 0.25 to health, buildable on grassland only)

*Veil Shapers
- can work ressource tiles normally
- transform all terrains into tundra
- can build
# Cottage
# Roads
# Mines
# *Tower (tower improvement gives you +1 gold, only buildable on tundra)

*Cult Shapers
- Woodsman II promotion
- can work ressource tiles normally
- can not chop jungle
- transform all terrains into jungle
-can build
# Yuan-Ti cottage
# Kobold Slave Farm
# Kobold Slave Pasture
# Kobold Slave Plantation
(All 4 equivalent to elven counterparts, buildable on jungle only and giving +2 food, +1 hammer, +0.5 health additionally to counter jungle effects, destroy roads)

OO gets no shapers here, but they still retain access to all their slaves.
Terraform always destroys all improvements on that tile, including roads.

Step Two - Attracting allies

Spoiler :

After building another national wonder, you can upgrade the nexus

(wonder)
- +4 diplomatic bonus with nations of the same religion (inspiring)
- -4 diplomativ relation with all other religions (heretic)
- Order gives Heroic Strength to all newly build units in that city
- gives one mana
FoL - Life
Kilmorph - Body
OO - Spirit
Order - Law
Veil - Dimensional
Cult - Chaos


Religion specific techs may be researched:
- FoL (One with Nature) +0.25 health from ancient forests
- Kilmorph (Subterran Farming) +1 food from dwarven mines
- OO (Breeding Slaves) can build human, dwarven, elven or orkish slaves
- Order (Farming communities) +1 hammer from efficient farm
- Veil (Undead Servants) +1 food, +1 gold from towers
(turning much of the working classes into undead reduces the need for food or payment, resulting in more for the mages to spend)
- Cult (Way of the Scale) +0.25 health from Jungle

Nexus
- +1 happiness
- gives access to Tier 2 flavour units, prevents building normal Tier 1 units

Step 3 - Favoured by the Gods

Spoiler :

After building a worldwonder (now only one nation per religion gets lucky) you can upgrade the nexus again.

(wonder)
- You are instantly at war with every nation with another state religion and are unable to make peace with them.
- gives you access to the crusade civic
- allows an additional hero to lead the crusade (tier 4)
- -3 diplomatic relation with all nations of the same religion
- gives one mana
FoL - Chaos
Kilmorph - Enchant
OO - Mind
Order - Life
Veil - Entropy
Cult - Body

Religion specific techs may be researched:
- FoL (Elven Blood) +1 gold from ancient forests, elven, woodsman II and forest stealth for all new units
- Kilmorph (Subterran Living) + 0.5 from dwarven mines, guerilla 2 and for all new units, hills have a chance to spawn allied giant mercenaries, when an enemy crosses the cultural border (like treants)
- OO (Mindslaves) +1 hammer from water tiles, all newly build units get marksmen and command promotion
- Order (Righteous Fury) + 0.5 from efficient farms, all newly build units get undeadslaying, demonslaying and commando
- Veil (Demonic Blood) +1 gold from towers, all newly build living units get demon and sorcery promotion
- Cult (Draconic Blood) +0.25 health from Jungle, +1 hammer from jungle, all newly build units get dragon, march, woodsman II and forest stealth

Nexus
- gives +1 happiness, +2 hammers to city (it's wartime)
- allows tier 3 flavour units, disables tier 2 normal units
- gives one mana
FoL - Spirit
Kilmorph - Fire
OO - Mind
Order - Spirit
Veil - Death
Cult - Life

Step 4 - Enlightment

Spoiler :

This time you have to build a ritual
- req: you finally have to own the holy city of that religion

(ritual)
- destroys all nexi / temples of the same religion outside your cultural borders.
- wipes your religion from every city outside your cultural borders
- prevents passive religion spread
- You are instantly at war with every other nation
- allows tier 4 flavour units
- summons an avatar of the corresponding religion

(Avatar)
- tier 5 unit (equivalent to dragons)
- immortal
- can consegrate any nexus or temple in a conquered city, so it becomes a nexus/temple of your religion.

 

[steel.stiletto]

Oh my, such a well thought out idea. Is there any way that I could help to bring this to reality?

(I do have experience in python programming, just not with Civ4)

 

[thomas.berubeg]

QES has been unactive forevere... anybody has any idea where he's gone? i'd'e really like to see something like this happen...

 

[Chandrasekhar]

It's part of being the idea hurricane. He'll be gone for a few weeks, then come back as strong as he ever was.

 

[loki1232]

Or he got banned/haxored and he'll be gone for a few months for that reason.

I am starting to like this paragon idea a bit though. Perhaps it could be tied into armageddon and the end of the world... [hint]all your ideas are possible belong to the lazy dev team for the fire phase[/hint]

 

[Shadowsong0]

[hint]all your ideas are possible belong to the lazy dev team for the fire phase[/hint]

well, that's why they were written down here in the first place, weren't they?

Tying it into the armageddon thingy would be even better because, as you may have noticed i had a hard time giving veil something special. Allowing them access to hellspawns would really improve the flavour of an end-time cult, but i have a hard time thinking about why a player should choose the armageddon option. It does not benefit him (aside from maybe harming others even more than him) in any way i can think of. But oh well, maybe an option for those survival type of games on deity, where you are not actually trying to win at all.

 

[Cheshiremythos]

Ok Qes I have large ideas in my head, as I usually do, and about 15 minutes to get them all down tonight. First, Idea of rituals is great, I think your a little harsh, even for a paragon status, on the caster though. Also instead of static make it more changeable.
First Ritual 'Discovery' Agreed only T1 special units
Second Ritual 'First Steps' Agreed again
Third Ritual 'Sacrificial rites' Cultural Garrison? Don't know what that is. T2 units though agreed with.
Fourth Ritual 'Cleansing' Agreed, but maybe taken in steps, break down this ritual into smaller parts, first one takes away other religious buildings, second takes away non-military, and third takes away everything left.
Firth Ritual 'Ascension' The amount of anarchy should be equal to the number of different religions in your territory+number of other players with your state religion. You have to drawn on a lot of your god's power and its hard to do that with other people taking up his or her time.
Sixth Ritual "awakening" I can't suggest anything other than the pop. half right now, get back to me on that.
Seventh Ritual 'Party Time' At war with any religion opposite to you, in the case of ashen veil or Order, or better yet at war with any alignment opposite then you. Don't know what to do with Runes as they are neutral.

Units and Specials
Im going to start with the Octopus Lords because I like them so much.

Spoiler :

Special Bonuses/Drawbacks
Good Melee
Bad Archery *in fact I would say known*
No or little fire magic
Excellent Ships
Decent recon

Keep the drown as the base T1 unit, its only a 3 attack power. But you can not make them straight you have to make a sacrifice, we will call the unit Drowning Sacrifice or some such, and then pay a small amount of money, 30 gold. Another little thorn for a paragon, need to keep an economy going.

T2 is axeman, but also boats so. Axeman replacement would be a Lesser avatar, something that looks like Cthulhu himself, 3 Attack power, +2 unholy, and mind level I. Boats...Sea creatures such as the kraken, not sure of its attack power. Also as a second boat allow for a 'Sailor's Dirge' type of ship, where it can spawn Drown, only in bay and only for 30 gold but no sacrifice. 5 Attack power 3 speed, 4 Cargo, 30% withdrawal *Because it can sink just as much as stay afloat, if not better* EDIT: Scratch Krakens for T2 they have a 12 attack power and 4 movement, give them sea serpent instead for 5 attack power and change its movement to 2.

T3 Mainly Disciple Units. Start with follower, then Priest of Dagon?, then Underwater Lord. Starter, 3 level, 5th level respectively. The follower gains xp like a disciple unit. The Priest can found a church/nexus without killing himself to do so. Underwater Lord can walk on water and has boarding so that he can take over ships. +50% vs. Naval Units.

Compliant Minds, 6 strength 1 move, replacement for macemen. Start with Mind I and something that prevents from being affected by fear. Crazed minds, 6/3 strength 2 movement, starts with Crazed and Blitz.

Ships- Undead Pirate Ship, also Undead Boarding Party. Pirate Ship, 6 strength 3 movement, Hidden nationality, Undead, and +40% withdrawal rate. Undead Boarding Party, 5 strength 1 movement, start with Undead and Boarding. Kraken, 12 attack power and 4 movement, because they have no actual strong ships just ability ones. Also a hero ship, the second one in the game possibly , 7 attack power +2 water/ice +2 death 3 movement and 1 cargo, starts with hero.


T4 Mi’Go Emissary, 9 attack power 1 movement, -50% city attack +50% versus animals, can build a farm, cargo space 1 ‘carries “birds”’. Special Fungus Farm, no attack power no movement no range, but they can summon a 9 attack power explosive mushroom for 80 gold that starts with barrage I and II and lasts for 3 turns. Somewhat of a druid but they are supposed to be a recon unit. Chthulhu flavor also. National unit

Compliant Masses, 5/22 strength no movement, +25% city defense +25% archery units, reduces the pop. Of the city it is built in by 5 *good penalty for you?* Somewhat takes the place of shield wall, tried for a unique feel though and figured sense they have the ‘Tower of Complacency’ this would be a decent shield wall. Also, requires Tower of Complacency built, not sure whether to limit it to that city and give it a one-time teleport to another or just to have the tower needed to be built but not specifically in that city. National Unit

Dagon Spawn 8/2 strength 2 movement, starts with water II and III, sorcery, summoning, and water walking. Meant to replace berserker in a way, but instead of its collateral damage gave it summoning abilities, figured this more fitting of a Child of Dagon. National Unit

Child of Cthulhu 7 strength 2 movement, starts with immortal and water walking. National Unit

Some hero/avatar unit but I have no idea what that could be, I’ll look through the necronomicon for ideas.

Is this a good enough start for unique units or do I need to think up some more?

Buildings

The Deep Pool, can’t think of a better name, this would be the OO ‘nexus’ or super temple. Required to build all other units and buildings. +2 happiness, +6 culture, +30% cultural bonus, -2 happiness from any non-state religion, -25% war weariness *everyone is compliant so they are going to less likely to complain about war*

Sailor’s Graveyard, allows the building of ships and sea creatures. +20% production bonus for building naval units.

Great temple to the Transcendent Lord, national wonder, allows for the creation of Mi’Go Emissaries. -4 diplomatic relations with any follower of the fellowship of leaves, -8 with any paragon of the leaves. *Mi’Go are aliens, they look like giant crabs with fungus covering them and talk in movements and flashing lights, for those of you who do not know of them. Its another penalty worked in and even has a flavor reason *

Water of Complacency, an addition to The Deep Pool, +2 happiness and allows for the creation of Compliant Masses, along with The Tower of Complacency.

Gate to Atlantis, non-national, allows for creation of Dagon Spawn and Children of Cthulhu. +1 food and +1 commerce from ocean tiles. Needs a negative I think.

Ruins of Atlantis, world wonder, can only be built in a coastal city. All creatures built in city gain unholy taint and *Ability which gives increased attack power like +15%, in addition to bronze/iron/mithral weapon trait* -6/12 diplomatic relations with FOL, -4/6 with order followers/paragons. *basically this sets you at war with any fellowship of leaves follower and very close with order followers.*

If more things are needed Lovecraft put out a book called The Necronomicon and I can quickly search through there for ideas on buildings and units if need be.