One City Challenge advice

[prestermatt]

Expansive is garbage. Just build the National Park in your city and suddenly is just as irrelevant as is with Globe Theater.

As a huge fan of the National Park, I generally agree, but sometimes you can manage without it and free up space for another useful wonder. If you don't have many forests to give you specialists, is it really worth it?

 

[Harbourboy]

There is no National Park for those of us who don't have BtS installed yet........

 

[KMadCandy]

ah, but if you're playing vanilla or warlords you don't have to limit your national wonder choices either, so you're lucky that way

 

[Bird Brain]

That's partly why I was advocating Peter before since his health bonus really was useful in vanilla OCC. Like everybody else I'm still getting used to BTS . . .

So who is the best leader for OCC then? I'm thinking Philosophical is a must . . . To me Charismatic, Expansive, Aggressive, Creative, Imperialistic, Financial, Organized, and maybe Protective all seem rather useless. So that just leaves Gandhi . . . Or am I missing somebody?

Still, with OCC I don't switch civics very much. I pretty much stay with Representation, Bureaucracy, Caste System, and Pacifism . . . In vanilla I used to take Environmentalism, but it doesn't seem needed now, does it? It seems like Mercantilism would be best now since you're not going to be having many trade routes anyway.

 

[Bast]

So who is the best leader for OCC then? I'm thinking Philosophical is a must . . . To me Charismatic, Expansive, Aggressive, Creative, Imperialistic, Financial, Organized, and maybe Protective all seem rather useless. So that just leaves Gandhi . . . Or am I missing somebody?

Yes because there's no philosophical/industrious. So you're pretty much advocating Gandhi or else for OCC.

I think yes Gandhi is probably the best. But other philosophical leaders can work too. All militaristic ones are out especially imperialistic.

Peter (philosphical,expansive), obviously.
Pericles (philosophical, creative), ok so the +2 sucks but he does get cheap theatre, library and odeon. I guess it's got to count for something.
Elizabeth and Frederick are the other possibilities.

So it's

1. Gandhi
2. Peter
3. Take a pick: Pericles, Elizabeth and Frederick. That's it.

 

[tboner23]

I though Louis was Phil/Ind... or is it Ind/Cre?

 

[KMadCandy]

Still, with OCC I don't switch civics very much. I pretty much stay with Representation, Bureaucracy, Caste System, and Pacifism . . . In vanilla I used to take Environmentalism, but it doesn't seem needed now, does it? It seems like Mercantilism would be best now since you're not going to be having many trade routes anyway.

mercantilism ... are you planning to be always at war? if my OCC is coastal with harbor, the trade routes are a serious portion of my commerce. one free specialist wouldn't nearly make up for the loss of that. in fact, when the other guys start swapping to merc, i watch and pray for them to get close to econ so that they'll swap to FM. but maybe that's different in BtS, since looks like the screenshot was in merc? i dunno, haven't done it myself yet.

spiritual is pretty much my number 1 favorite trait for anything, so i'm completely biased. but even in OCC, where i don't tend to change civics very much, it gives me the freedom to cave in to demands to change civics or state religions, which can be a lifesaver if you're as bad at fighting actual wars as i am! but i'm totally biased there. if you don't get any use out of spiritual ever in any game, you probably won't here either. like any trait, it's one you have to develop a style with i suppose.

 

[Julian Delphiki]

I though Louis was Phil/Ind... or is it Ind/Cre?

Latter.

10ch.

 

[Bhruic]

In vanilla I used to take Environmentalism, but it doesn't seem needed now, does it? It seems like Mercantilism would be best now since you're not going to be having many trade routes anyway.

Environmentalism is still pretty valuable. Assuming you did the "save the forests" route, it'll give you +2 per forest preserve, which'll give you more than any single GP will. Plus, if you didn't build the National Park, it'll give you some more bonuses, which you'll likely need.

Bh

 

[popejubal]

With the National Park's free specialists from Forest Preserves, you picked up another 7 specialists for a total of 18-19 extra real population in your city.

I'd say that an extra 18-19 population is worth dropping from x3 production to x2.5 production in your only city.

Expansive is garbage. Just build the National Park in your city and suddenly is just as irrelevant as is with Globe Theater.

well but you can't really get that extra population in OCC. unless maybe you have sid's sushi and the AI really will trade you that much fish? he had room for 14 more people than he could feed!

You can, indeed get that extra population in OCC... and he did get exactly that in this particular game. Except for the one tiny mistake I made...


Without the National Park, each person would have consumed 2 food and produced 1 pollution. He gets away with not having 2-4 pollution from coal because National Park eats coal for breakfast.

Since he has 14 from non-population sources, he has 14 remaining until he runs out. That puts him at 14 population consuming 28 food and breaking even on health.

Each person beyond 14 consumes 3 food. 2 food is consumed by the citizen and 1 food is consumed by the that the citizen adds. That means the extra 20 food he has will "fund" an extra 6 people. He ends up with 14+6=20 people without National Park. If he has Coal, that becomes 14+5 = 19 people without National Park

With National Park, he ends up with 24 + 7 = 31 people. That's 12 more people with National Park than without (if he has coal).

It's not the 18 or 19 that I had originally claimed because I somehow thought that he would have 0 more people than the 14 where he breaks even on vs. .

This difference becomes even more significant with more food (and also with more significant with more pollution) because the 2 food per person for National Park continues to compare with the 3 food per person without National Park.

 

[KMadCandy]

You can, indeed get that extra population in OCC... and he did get exactly that in this particular game.

i'm still not seeing your point. i'm sorry, i'm honestly confused. look at his screenshot, he does not have food to feed anybody else. he has health room for 14 more people but that spare health is doing him no good because he cannot get that extra food to turn it into population is what i mean.

 

[uberfish]

Forest preserve + environmentalism + national park = 3 (food or hammers) + 2c + 1 representation specialist, which is the best output in the game you can get from a tile. If you're going into the late game you definitely want national park.

I generally pick Liz, just to get the bonus commerce from any cottages I build early and Financial is useful in the late game with +1c per Environmentalist forest preserve.

 

[popejubal]

i'm still not seeing your point. i'm sorry, i'm honestly confused. look at his screenshot, he does not have food to feed anybody else. he has health room for 14 more people but that spare health is doing him no good because he cannot get that extra food to turn it into population is what i mean.

The spare health that he has is irrelevant. He could have 4800 population instead of 48 population and he would still have 14 pollution.

What is relevant is that each person is costing him 2 food.

If he had to worry about people producing pollution, each of the first 14 people (assuming he has no coal) would cost 2 food, but each person after the first 14 costs 3 food. That's because he breaks even on vs. at 14 people.

Since he has 48 food available, the first 14 people would cost him 28 food. He'll have 20 food left. That remaining 20 food can only support 6 people since these people consume 3 food each. That's a total of 20 "normal" people in the city.

If he has access to Coal, I believe he'll only get 19 people since I believe Coal produces 4 on its own. If Coal produces 2 on its own, then he'll still be able to support all 20 people that he can without.

With the National Park, he can support all 24 people that he (obviously) has in his city. He also gets an additional 7 free specialists which brings him to a total of 31 real population (rather than his listed 24).


I'm not saying that he could support even more people than he has now. He obviously doesn't have enough food for that. What I'm saying is that he can support a lot more people now (his total of 31 real population) than he could support if he did not have the National Park.

With National Park (see screenshot): 24 "normal" people + 7 free = 31 total.
Without Nat. Park: 20 total people.

 

[McGoo]

I am finishing up a game (Warlords) with Brennus. I did a feudalism slingshot and had Longbowman by 1250BC. With those I went out and beat up on Shaka. Rounded out my techs by Suing once for peace and then 10 years latter finished him off (by now I had my Celtic Warriers and Cats). I got 3 workers from him (never had to build my own.

I didn't know have useful Charismatic would be, but with generally fewer units those extra promotions come in handy. And with the early war, I had several 6th level units so I didn't have to use any GG's to get West Point.

At this point in the game (1950AD) I just started building my tanks and am about to go medieval on Toku. He's got tons of Cavs I will need to get though, but I am pumping out a level 6 tank every turn. I am giving most of the formation and first strike as much as possible, but some I am making commandos.

Stuff I have learned...
early war is good. allows herioc epic and west point...and all those CR4 swordwmen become CR4 rifles/inf/mech inf.

When/if wiping out an AI, pillage everything you can. You are creating open space for another AI...don't give them the advantage of existing improvements.

Use those traits...I could have more wisely switched back and forth between civics to help my cause. Swich to Vass/Theo when building units, etc.

The Feud slingshot seemed to work well at least this time. One nice thing about it is that you do not require special resources and the longbows make good defenders or (early) attackers with the right promotions. Give them cover and FS and they do very well against archer defenders.

Another mistake I have made is playing on too big of map. Smaller maps tend to concentrate resources more and limits the AI's.