One Last Roll of the Dice
- Thread starter grandad1982
- Start date
grandad1982
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Eng first. If we get those religious buildings then Paper and UoS would be nice eventually but not right now.
I really can't wait to get a war on our own terms started! Only a few more sets....
I really can't wait to get a war on our own terms started! Only a few more sets....
Opening Turn | 625AD | Turn 215
Shuffle citizens in Paris, Orleans, and Lyons.
Tours: Library (interrupt) > Worker
Marseilles: Market (interrupt) > National Epic
Isabella: Trade spare Copper <> 3
/turn + Clams
Turn 1 | 640AD | Turn 216
Paris: Barracks > Islamic Monastery
Vandal: Courthouse > Trireme
Chartres: Library > Trireme
Science up to 30%
Turn 2 | 655AD | Turn 217
Machinery > Civil Service
Mansa Musa also acquires Machinery.
Tours: Worker > Library (resume)
Turn 3 | 670AD | Turn 218
Rheims: Catapult > Aqueduct
Marble is now back on line.
Grenoble pops its borders and now has Rice in its BFC and begins to compete for the Fish.
Science back down to 20%
Turn 4 | 685AD | Turn 219
Paris: Islamic Monastery > Crossbow
Mansa Musa: Cancel Fur <> Bananas deal as cities are well below happy caps.
Turn 5 | 700AD | Turn 220
Chartres: Trireme > Barracks
Avignon: Forge > Library
Isabella: Trade spare Banana <> Fish
Turn 6 | 715AD | Turn 221
Orleans: Catapult > Crossbow
Mehmed completes The Statue of Zeus in Istanbul.
We spot a Barbarian Warrior emerging from the dark (far south east) and send forth an Axeman.
Turn 7 | 730AD | Turn 222
Orleans picks up Hinduism.
Science back up to 30%
Turn 8 | 745AD | Turn 223
Chartres: Barracks (interrupt) > Worker
Isabella drops out of WHEOOHRN.
Churchill goes into WHEOOHRN (Suryavarman is the least popular known leader with Churchill).
Isabella becomes more accepting of trading propositions with us, with Feudalism now on the table but Machinerys apparently not good enough for a swap.
Aryabhata (Great Scientist Wikipedia tells us a highly influential Sixth Century astronomer and mathematician) is born in Lyons. Hes sent to Paris for possible merging into the city on Turn 10, if not bulbing Philosophy.
Scouting Chariot uncovers the location of Konya.
Axeman kills Warrior.
Turn 9 |760AD | Turn 224
Paris: Crossbow > Crossbow
Rheims: Aqueduct > Catapult
Vandal: Trireme > Catapult
Science yo-yos back down to 20%
Within the last two turns Churchills empire has grown by two cities.
Turn 10 | 775AD | Turn 225
Not much to report on the final turn.
Christianity is quite widely spread now in Mali, and Lyons continues to be culture pressed. Were on the final turn of the peace deal with Suryavarman. Churchill and Mansa Musa seem to be continuing their charge through the technology tree (theyre trading with each other).
Overall the big disappointment of the turnset is that our gamble to trade Machinery for Civil Service did not pay off, with Mali acquiring the technology on the same turn that we did, and as such weve trudged ahead still researching Civil Service alone. I was able to add some Workers and units during this turnset (incl. a couple of boats), and made progress in getting the National Epic nearly built in Marseilles. I didnt undertake any whipping this turnset, although theres ample opportunity to go through the empire if the roster wants, although most citizens are well employed as either specialists or working improved tiles.
(Whoops) I didn't notice that Vandal hasn't got Barracks yet, so that Catapult build should be interrupted before completion in order to get Barracks underway.
English borders to the west;
Rather glum ongoing technology predicament (it will come good!);
Shuffle citizens in Paris, Orleans, and Lyons.
Tours: Library (interrupt) > Worker
Marseilles: Market (interrupt) > National Epic
Isabella: Trade spare Copper <> 3
/turn + ClamsTurn 1 | 640AD | Turn 216
Paris: Barracks > Islamic Monastery
Vandal: Courthouse > Trireme
Chartres: Library > Trireme
Science up to 30%
Turn 2 | 655AD | Turn 217
Machinery > Civil Service
Mansa Musa also acquires Machinery.
Tours: Worker > Library (resume)
Turn 3 | 670AD | Turn 218
Rheims: Catapult > Aqueduct
Marble is now back on line.
Grenoble pops its borders and now has Rice in its BFC and begins to compete for the Fish.
Science back down to 20%
Turn 4 | 685AD | Turn 219
Paris: Islamic Monastery > Crossbow
Mansa Musa: Cancel Fur <> Bananas deal as cities are well below happy caps.
Turn 5 | 700AD | Turn 220
Chartres: Trireme > Barracks
Avignon: Forge > Library
Isabella: Trade spare Banana <> Fish
Turn 6 | 715AD | Turn 221
Orleans: Catapult > Crossbow
Mehmed completes The Statue of Zeus in Istanbul.
We spot a Barbarian Warrior emerging from the dark (far south east) and send forth an Axeman.
Turn 7 | 730AD | Turn 222
Orleans picks up Hinduism.
Science back up to 30%
Turn 8 | 745AD | Turn 223
Chartres: Barracks (interrupt) > Worker
Isabella drops out of WHEOOHRN.
Churchill goes into WHEOOHRN (Suryavarman is the least popular known leader with Churchill).
Isabella becomes more accepting of trading propositions with us, with Feudalism now on the table but Machinerys apparently not good enough for a swap.
Aryabhata (Great Scientist Wikipedia tells us a highly influential Sixth Century astronomer and mathematician) is born in Lyons. Hes sent to Paris for possible merging into the city on Turn 10, if not bulbing Philosophy.
Scouting Chariot uncovers the location of Konya.
Axeman kills Warrior.
Turn 9 |760AD | Turn 224
Paris: Crossbow > Crossbow
Rheims: Aqueduct > Catapult
Vandal: Trireme > Catapult
Science yo-yos back down to 20%
Within the last two turns Churchills empire has grown by two cities.
Turn 10 | 775AD | Turn 225
Not much to report on the final turn.
Christianity is quite widely spread now in Mali, and Lyons continues to be culture pressed. Were on the final turn of the peace deal with Suryavarman. Churchill and Mansa Musa seem to be continuing their charge through the technology tree (theyre trading with each other).
Overall the big disappointment of the turnset is that our gamble to trade Machinery for Civil Service did not pay off, with Mali acquiring the technology on the same turn that we did, and as such weve trudged ahead still researching Civil Service alone. I was able to add some Workers and units during this turnset (incl. a couple of boats), and made progress in getting the National Epic nearly built in Marseilles. I didnt undertake any whipping this turnset, although theres ample opportunity to go through the empire if the roster wants, although most citizens are well employed as either specialists or working improved tiles.
(Whoops) I didn't notice that Vandal hasn't got Barracks yet, so that Catapult build should be interrupted before completion in order to get Barracks underway.
English borders to the west;
Rather glum ongoing technology predicament (it will come good!);
Very solid send Cam_H. Allthough the gamble was a failure... :|
Some minor points for the next player:
- I wouldn't whip Rouen and Avignon, these cities should work dyes's and silks as they help our economy quite much.
- Employ two scientists in Marseilles (GP farm) after NE is finished and finish the market. After market, employ two merchants as well.
- Grenoble (fish / iron) should whip library after granary is finished. That should be enough for us to win the culture battle.
- I'd still settle the scientist in Paris. We get CS and Bureurcracy in 5-6 turns so I feel that would help us the most.
Some minor points for the next player:
- I wouldn't whip Rouen and Avignon, these cities should work dyes's and silks as they help our economy quite much.
- Employ two scientists in Marseilles (GP farm) after NE is finished and finish the market. After market, employ two merchants as well.
- Grenoble (fish / iron) should whip library after granary is finished. That should be enough for us to win the culture battle.
- I'd still settle the scientist in Paris. We get CS and Bureurcracy in 5-6 turns so I feel that would help us the most.
grandad1982
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Bloody Mansa 
Seems like another solid set thre Cam H. Nice Wiki'ing.
Mansa Is really runnig away with the tech here. This really puts him back in my sights as a war target (don't want him to snaffle Lib...) along with the fact he's annoying!
If we see anymore barbs get our medic chariot to them to get it to medic2.
Once those jungle cities start to work commerce rich tiles/cottages DON'T whip them. Untill then we might as well (agree with Meiz on his assesment).
Will look at the save later.
Seems like another solid set thre Cam H. Nice Wiki'ing.
Mansa Is really runnig away with the tech here. This really puts him back in my sights as a war target (don't want him to snaffle Lib...) along with the fact he's annoying!
If we see anymore barbs get our medic chariot to them to get it to medic2.
Once those jungle cities start to work commerce rich tiles/cottages DON'T whip them. Untill then we might as well (agree with Meiz on his assesment).
Will look at the save later.
Apologies, forgot to add the roster;
As for the Great Scientist, I'm still a little undecided, but content with any of the three most apparent options in front of us;
Settle in Paris: Paris is most likely going to finish a University first and presumably will be the home of Oxford University, so getting those multipliers on the merged Great Scientist's output will be particularly advantageous from the mid-game onwards, although obviously getting him merged into the city this turn gets us immediate returns too.
Academy in Lyons: We'll probably be running four Scientists there for a while (two from The Great Library) so +50% to these guys under Representation is hard to ignore. Merging the Great Scientist in Paris would give a 
, whereas an Academy in Lyons would give +4
in a city that's going to be battling with borders until we invade Mali. Other factors such as what we do with the commerce slider and its direct impact on the Academy but not the merged Great Scientist 'muddied the waters', so I wasn't particularly taken with one option or the other as both had merit and there were a few variables to accommodate that affected either proposition.
Bulb Philosophy: Churchill still has this monopoly technology, so it's still of fair trade value if we're prepared to take a chance at not getting Liberalism just for a bit of catch-up now. I don't know if we can get Isabella to trade Feudalism to us with it, but Feudalism will allow us to eventually vassalise Mali, keep him in the game, and keep him as our trading partner when the rest of the world may have WFYABTA issues with us. Of course Mansa will be more than happy to trade something for it too, although I'd make a trade with Isabella first. On the other hand, if we don't want to trade Philosophy with a view to getting the Liberalism slingshot, I'd suggest we could wait for our next Great Scientist or self-research it closer to the time and make use of Aryabhata now.
- grandad1982 <<< On Deck
- Meiz
- Cam H
- Admiral Kutzov <<< Up
As for the Great Scientist, I'm still a little undecided, but content with any of the three most apparent options in front of us;
Settle in Paris: Paris is most likely going to finish a University first and presumably will be the home of Oxford University, so getting those multipliers on the merged Great Scientist's output will be particularly advantageous from the mid-game onwards, although obviously getting him merged into the city this turn gets us immediate returns too.
Academy in Lyons: We'll probably be running four Scientists there for a while (two from The Great Library) so +50%
to these guys under Representation is hard to ignore. Merging the Great Scientist in Paris would give a , whereas an Academy in Lyons would give +4 in a city that's going to be battling with borders until we invade Mali. Other factors such as what we do with the commerce slider and its direct impact on the Academy but not the merged Great Scientist 'muddied the waters', so I wasn't particularly taken with one option or the other as both had merit and there were a few variables to accommodate that affected either proposition.Bulb Philosophy: Churchill still has this monopoly technology, so it's still of fair trade value if we're prepared to take a chance at not getting Liberalism just for a bit of catch-up now. I don't know if we can get Isabella to trade Feudalism to us with it, but Feudalism will allow us to eventually vassalise Mali, keep him in the game, and keep him as our trading partner when the rest of the world may have WFYABTA issues with us. Of course Mansa will be more than happy to trade something for it too, although I'd make a trade with Isabella first. On the other hand, if we don't want to trade Philosophy with a view to getting the Liberalism slingshot, I'd suggest we could wait for our next Great Scientist or self-research it closer to the time and make use of Aryabhata now.
grandad1982
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Despite my earlier suggestion I think bulbing is the weakest option and should be ignored. I lean towards an Acad in Lyon. When Paris goes Buear I don't think one merged GSci will mean that much in the later stages of the game compared to it boosting the beakers in Lyons now. Its you set Admiral so its your call as I have no numbers to back me up!
We can 2 pop whip the NE so I suggest we do that as the pop will grow back v. fast.
Get some workers up to Vandal. We really want a second dedicated Millitary city for our war effort.
Leave the remaining forests in Paris (infact could you sign them as such).
What do we think about a civic switch when CS comes in? Buear and OR (Islam). We should just stay in Slavery for now as we might want to whip units for our war.
Just keep pumping cats and maybe xbows till maces come online.
After CS tech to Eng. After Eng run for Lib?
We can 2 pop whip the NE so I suggest we do that as the pop will grow back v. fast.
Get some workers up to Vandal. We really want a second dedicated Millitary city for our war effort.
Leave the remaining forests in Paris (infact could you sign them as such).
What do we think about a civic switch when CS comes in? Buear and OR (Islam). We should just stay in Slavery for now as we might want to whip units for our war.
Just keep pumping cats and maybe xbows till maces come online.
After CS tech to Eng. After Eng run for Lib?
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
Take this as a got it. I don't really have any plans. Need some strategic suggestions. Left to my own devices, I'd just get ready to attack and crush Mansu.
What about dumping all the EP onto Mansu?
I like the academy in Lyons for the culture boost.
Give me a sense of our target and I'll try to come up with a plan.
As Cam noted, Churchill and Mansu are trading partners. One way to shut that down is to take one out of the equation.
What about dumping all the EP onto Mansu?
I like the academy in Lyons for the culture boost.
Give me a sense of our target and I'll try to come up with a plan.
As Cam noted, Churchill and Mansu are trading partners. One way to shut that down is to take one out of the equation.
I was pretty sure we'd end up merging the Great Scientist in Paris, so my apologies therefore if you'd rather build that Academy in Lyons as I wasted a couple of turns running him over there. As before, I'm not that fussed which option we go with.
General plan I believe is to; continue improve the jungle terrain, build a Medieval invasion force where possible, not expose our borders to the north too much as Suryavarman and Mehmed aren't the most trustworthy of rivals (i.e. be wary of invasion), and eventually overwhelm Mansa Musa largely with a notable quantity of Catapults and Trebuchets. Rheims, Vandal, and for the time being Paris to pump out units, and other cities such as Tours, Grenoble, and Orleans when they can. Vandal to build a Barracks immediately. Try not to whip citizens off Cottages.
General plan I believe is to; continue improve the jungle terrain, build a Medieval invasion force where possible, not expose our borders to the north too much as Suryavarman and Mehmed aren't the most trustworthy of rivals (i.e. be wary of invasion), and eventually overwhelm Mansa Musa largely with a notable quantity of Catapults and Trebuchets. Rheims, Vandal, and for the time being Paris to pump out units, and other cities such as Tours, Grenoble, and Orleans when they can. Vandal to build a Barracks immediately. Try not to whip citizens off Cottages.
grandad1982
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Pretty much what Cam said. Just get some more mines around Vandal is all I'd add.
Hold the borders and get ready to crush.
Hold the borders and get ready to crush.
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
will do. sigh.
GS will settle in Paris.
me neither.
What about dumping all the EP on Mansu as an eye towards stealing some techs?
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
we could always uses the spies to take down his defenses.
I'll play in about 24 hours to allow time for final comments if any
grandad1982
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If you want to put some EP into Mansa how about using the slider for a turn or so? It might be nice to get some of those techs before he gets KOed but I'm not to fussed about EP.
As for taking down defences thats what building loads of siege is for.....
As for taking down defences thats what building loads of siege is for.....
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
Sorry, had some RL to deal with today. Will definitely play tomorrow.
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
The philosophy of NO.
There was:
1. No whipping
2. No trading
3. No research
4. No worker built
5. No wars
Pre-play goals:
Hold borders, get ready to crush - borders held, check
GS settled in Paris - check
More mines around Vandal - in progress
improve jungle - in progress
build invasion force - in progress, no research so we can upgrade those axes.
Rheims, Paris, Vandal - partial fail, only built a few xbows and cats
Vandal builds rax - done
don't whip off cottages - check
CS > Eng > Lib - CS finished, Eng started
775 - drop science to zero. Settle GS in Paris. Drop EP on Churchill to 1.
790 - Taoism spreads in our lands. Decline to convert.
805 - Tours Lib > CH; interrupt cat at Vandal to build rax
820 - Rheims cat > cat
835 - Marseilles NE > market
850 - zzz
860 - Paris xbow > xbow; Orleans xbow > CH; Lyons market > CH; Rheims cat > cat
870 - Meet Wang. He's surprisingly backwards. No trades as he is the worst enemy of Churchill, Mehmed, and Bella. CS > Eng. AP vote, we abstain.
880 - Bella wins the AP vote. I'm about to hit enter when I notice 4 barb swords near Marseilles. WTH? Please sentry the garrisons and not fortify. I start a couple of axes down from Tours to help.
890 - the 4 barb swords die flawlessly trying to attack 2 axes and a spear in Marseilles. Quarry lost to a spy. Rheims cat > cat. Grenoble WB > CH
900 - poor note taking.
Paris should be whipped. CH builds can be changed. Felt the need to build up the economy to get cash for upgrades. I also built some roads for defensive movement if we need to. The northern SOD is intact.
There was:
1. No whipping
2. No trading
3. No research
4. No worker built
5. No wars
Pre-play goals:
Hold borders, get ready to crush - borders held, check
GS settled in Paris - check
More mines around Vandal - in progress
improve jungle - in progress
build invasion force - in progress, no research so we can upgrade those axes.
Rheims, Paris, Vandal - partial fail, only built a few xbows and cats
Vandal builds rax - done
don't whip off cottages - check
CS > Eng > Lib - CS finished, Eng started
775 - drop science to zero. Settle GS in Paris. Drop EP on Churchill to 1.
790 - Taoism spreads in our lands. Decline to convert.
805 - Tours Lib > CH; interrupt cat at Vandal to build rax
820 - Rheims cat > cat
835 - Marseilles NE > market
850 - zzz
860 - Paris xbow > xbow; Orleans xbow > CH; Lyons market > CH; Rheims cat > cat
870 - Meet Wang. He's surprisingly backwards. No trades as he is the worst enemy of Churchill, Mehmed, and Bella. CS > Eng. AP vote, we abstain.
880 - Bella wins the AP vote. I'm about to hit enter when I notice 4 barb swords near Marseilles. WTH? Please sentry the garrisons and not fortify. I start a couple of axes down from Tours to help.
890 - the 4 barb swords die flawlessly trying to attack 2 axes and a spear in Marseilles. Quarry lost to a spy. Rheims cat > cat. Grenoble WB > CH
900 - poor note taking.
Paris should be whipped. CH builds can be changed. Felt the need to build up the economy to get cash for upgrades. I also built some roads for defensive movement if we need to. The northern SOD is intact.
Looking good, we can really use those courthouses. We could whip them to completion and then start to build some maces.
Some minor things:
- Revolt to Bureaurcracy immediately! (ok, this was little more than a minor thing
)
- Marseilles has no use for cottages, that is our GP city and it needs farms.
- We might have over built catapults, in case we want trebutchets as well (that's why we're researching Engineering, right?)
- I'm not sure, but we might be better off using the money for research and building fresh maces. Upgrading is quite expensive... What do you think?
Some minor things:
- Revolt to Bureaurcracy immediately! (ok, this was little more than a minor thing
)- Marseilles has no use for cottages, that is our GP city and it needs farms.
- We might have over built catapults, in case we want trebutchets as well (that's why we're researching Engineering, right?)
- I'm not sure, but we might be better off using the money for research and building fresh maces. Upgrading is quite expensive... What do you think?
Thanks for the turnset Admiral.
Can't disagree with Meiz's first two points. Too many Catapults though? Naaah. We may as well upgrade a few of those Level 3 Axes and Swords (mostly in Tours) immediately. Improve the Power Rating and gives us a better feel for our future vs. needs. Also, with such a big stash the A.I. might start getting demanding. Nice to have the though!
Two minor observations; I don't think Chartres needs a Courthouse particularly unless we're keen to get enough in the empire to build The Forbidden Palace, and Grenoble should irrigate the riverside Jungle to irrigate the Rice.
Can't disagree with Meiz's first two points. Too many Catapults though? Naaah. We may as well upgrade a few of those Level 3 Axes and Swords (mostly in Tours) immediately. Improve the Power Rating and gives us a better feel for our future
vs. needs. Also, with such a big stash the A.I. might start getting demanding. Nice to have the though! Two minor observations; I don't think Chartres needs a Courthouse particularly unless we're keen to get enough in the empire to build The Forbidden Palace, and Grenoble should irrigate the riverside Jungle to irrigate the Rice.
- grandad1982 <<< Up
- Meiz <<< On Deck
- Cam H
- Admiral Kutzov
grandad1982
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Ok will check the save and put up my plan later today.
I agree that not upgrading all axes etc is a good idea. Just the higher promoted units.
To many cats?? Never! They can just be spammed into the attack
I agree that not upgrading all axes etc is a good idea. Just the higher promoted units.
To many cats?? Never! They can just be spammed into the attack
To many cats?? Never! They can just be spammed into the attack
Yeah but I'd rather suicide Trebutchets which are way more effective. Cats are good for bombing down defences and I think we have enough.
