Open Letter to Firaxis Concerning the Editor.

Kilroy

Bitter.
Joined
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Firaxis:

The latest patch has "fixed" a few "problems" with the editor concerning the ability to add and delete, among other things, improvements and units. Namely, the work-around to add and delete such objects no longer exists. Certainly, a hacked editor will appear within the next few weeks which will remove most of those limitations. So, the mod community will only have to wait a while before most of the limitations are overcome.

What I'm asking, and I believe I can speak for just about everyone with even a passing interest in modding the game when I ask this, is that Firaxis simply remove the intermediate step of a third party hacking the editor and release a more functional editor. I understand that this editor couldn't be supported, since there are certainly many issues related to modifying certain parts of the game that haven't been completely resolved yet. For this reason you'll need to make it clear to anyone who downloads the "expert" editor that it's unsupported and not recommended for use by Firaxis. However, many of us have no problem spending the time it would take to troubleshoot any problems that may arise from the use of a powerful yet more bug-prone editor.

As I'm certain you're aware, there are many precedents for such an action. Many software houses will release unsupported programs for their products with no intent of supporting them, ever (Valve - Half-Life, Relic - Homeworld, Activision - Call to Power, Microprose - Civilization 2, to name a few). And, certainly there are some areas of the rules you don't want people to have access to just yet (and perhaps never). However other parts, such as adding units, improvements, etc, will have little effect on the future sales of say, an expansion (although admittedly, since I don't know whether you're releasing an expansion and what it would contain if you did, I have no business saying this - I could very well be completely wrong).

Anyway, know that many of us have no qualms about working with an editor that may not be exactly "fit for mass consumption." So, if this is all that is holding you back, I implore you to release the "expert" editor I speak of as a separate download on civ3.com. On the other hand, if there are other issues preventing you from releasing this editor (I can't think of any myself but then I'm not on the Civ3 team), please just quote the following line of text:

Ain't gonna happen, chunky.
 
Funny, I just post a very similar comment here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20575&perpage=20&pagenumber=4

in the Civ3 - General Discussions > Patch v1.21f Bugs & Problems Report forum.

I even refered to Valve/Half-life. Why stifle the efforts of the best thing you have going for you, meaning Free Innovation.

I'm sure they pay top money for creative types and here people are doing it for free and they're taking their tools away from them.

-Bchaeus Maximus.
 
I'm fully behind this proposal !

Bump this thread to show Firaxis what a mistake they made eliminating the "add" unit workaround .
 
I also agree 100%.

Firaxis, I don't know what the heck you think you're accomplishing by making the fans angry at you. It's already bad enough that we have to wait before we can make some real scenarios, but now you're trying to keep us from making mods that do more than change a few rules??? Is this your way of "supporting" the mod community?
 
What I'm worrying is that it might be a problem not only with the Editor. It may do something with civ3.exe.
Notice that all the rules will be stored in the save file now, I guess adding/modifying unit may cost problem for the new system.. 2 cents
 
Originally posted by sekong
What I'm worrying is that it might be a problem not only with the Editor. It may do something with civ3.exe.
Notice that all the rules will be stored in the save file now, I guess adding/modifying unit may cost problem for the new system.. 2 cents

Why wouldn't those added units just be saved in the .SAV file along with everything else? If they weren't, it would be an extremely bad design decision on Firaxis' part, so bad in fact that I'm 99% sure this is not the case (plus it would hint that the code is held together by a shoestring and a prayer).

Anyway, this is a moot point - the mod community wants a more functional editor, and to hell with the consequences. Now to be fair, IF Firaxis were to release a more functional editor, and it turned out to be really buggy and many things didn't work, many people would, in fact, complain. But I wouldn't. Most people serious about modding wouldn't because they'd be smart enough to know what not do with the editor, and what was safe. I just want tot be able to decide for myself what I can and can not do.
 
I've been reading posts for the last three hours . . . and the last few weeks. I must say, it's sad to see such a large collection of truly talented and dedicated people being stifled at almost every turn in one way or another.

. . . just a thought . . .

Dear Firaxis,

If you truly love something . . . set it free.

Let it become as wild and woolly as we can make it.

You do NO ONE a good service by maintaining such an omnipotent, over-protective attitude.

(i.e. I bought my last new car from Ford. If I want to put mags, a racing cam and headers on it that's MY business; and I wouldn't have bought it if I knew the manufacturer would be apparently trying his/her best to disallow such USER options. The fact that it may void my warranty is an issue for ME to decide. [Disapprove of is not the same thing as Disallow].)

Give US the control . . . for in doing so you gain not only our gratitude and respect, but also our business, and the business of all those who seek our recommendation (or lack thereof).

CivIII is a pretty good 'TWO or THREE TIME' game. But it will require the assistance of some pretty damn inventive USER minds (and there truly are quite a few of them out here) to make it an ongoing classical thing of beauty and desire.

FRAXIS . . . LET MY PEOPLE GO!

. . . just a thought . . .




.:alien: :alien: :alien: :alien: :borg: :alien: :alien: :alien: :alien:.
RESISTANCE IS . . . DESIRED
 
Not only is the Editor inadequate as you described, but arrogant and haughty Firaxis took away the 'multi.sav' cheat that allowed us to see the entire map!! :eek:

THIS STINKS OUT LOUD.

Give the fans what we want, Firaxis!! :mad: :mad:


BTW, as for adding new units, here's an idea. . .

Certain units are acknowledged to be useless: submarines, privateers, the F-15. and helicopters. I will never use tactical nukes or ICBM's as there is no way to respond to a first strike. That gives us six units we can edit into something more useful:

Crossbowmen for all as Longbowmen become an English UU; American "minutemen" (fast musketeers); horse cannon (slightly more expensive cannon with 2 MP and needing horses); shock troops (offensive infanty with more punch than marines but less than tanks; and musket infantry (advanced musketmen also with more punch). And maybe another.

Works for me.
 
Stop whining, people! :D I got this reply from Jeff Morris concerning the editor:

More work continues on the editor and I think you'll be happy with the results. For now, those features just aren't ready for prime time. Stay tuned.

Sounds like something BIG is coming and it's probably not too far away. Maybe the next editor update will contain a mini-map!

Just relax and don't be too harsh on Firaxis... :)
 
Well, we obviously wouldn't care so much if it wasn't such a good game already. But sometimes you have to make a little noise to get what you want. I think it's because they actually took a feature/bug away from us that made us so upset.

If they feel they have to take a step backwards to go forwards I guess we have no choice but to be patient or hack ourselves.

BUT, I think we made our point, and if no one whined, perhaps improvements wouldn't be forthcoming.

anyway, i'm rambling. ciao



-Bchaeus Maximus
 
Originally posted by Bchaeus Maximus
I guess we have no choice but to be patient or hack ourselves.

There is a work around IF you still have a copy of the previous editor. Add your units in the "old" editor version, then read it into the latest editor! VOILA ! :egypt:
 
Originally posted by Nuke on a Stick


For the love of god, a company can only do so much in a amount of time.

Well, if they're so concerned about not wasting any time they shouldn't have disabled a "bug" they plan on later releasing as a "feature."

That is, IF they plan on releasing it as a feature.
 
Hope you won't be insulted by this, but what I see as Civ3's greatest strength is the innovative and creative game model, the chassis, which you have made, not the actual, specific, game which you chose to put on top of it. So I'm surprised you'd want to take away part of the ability to throw on new paint jobs, so to speak. :confused:

Many people want to change things (especially the combat model) and make their own "versions" of the game, from Star Wars to Ancient Times to Lord of the Rings. And as I'm sure you've seen, we're capable of creativity ourselves, from Marla's World Map, which you thought good enough to put on the civ3 site yourselves, to all the great unit animations which have been made since the release.

If you feel you need to work out the bugs in the Editor first, and then release a new editor with new features and the unit capabilities put back in, that's fine. I'm totally okay with that and will promptly be quiet and patient. :D

But let me assure you, that if this is some "ploy" to sell expansions with new units in them, or if you just plan not to let Civers build and delete units, the Editor WILL be hacked and we will continue to make our own mods with new units.

~Sincerely, Loyal Civ Player
 
Originally posted by sealman


what do you mean by "read it into the latest editor"?

Sorry it took so long to get back to you but I had to go watch the Carolina Hurricanes defeat the New Jersey Devils. GO CANES!

Startup the version of the editor that came with the 1.17f patch if you still have it, then open your OLD civ3mod.bic file if you still have it. Then add your new units. Save the file. Now startup the new editor and open the the old saved bic file with the new units. Then save it. This will save it WITH the added units.

If you don't have an the old unmodified civ3mod.bic file still around, startup the old editor, add your units and save it. Then use the new editor to open the newly 1.17f version bic file. The will give you the new 1.21f version of the bic file for all your new games.

If you don't have a copy of the 1.17f editor, I can supply one.

OR ..you can use the new "hacked editor" announced by Thunderfall in this thread.

HAPPY CIVING!

JL

:lol: :lol:
 
MODS = SALES

... What part of this simple economic fact don't you guys get!?

MANY of us bought Civ3 so that we could model - MOD - the forces shaping history in different contexts. NOT allowing mods makes what can be a surprisingly enlightening, fun, academic / historiographic tool utterly uninteresting.

Granted, you've given us some -- unnecessarily little -- in the current editor, but, to quote Grace Slick:

Either go away or go all the way in!

Perplexed Regards,

Ozymandias
 
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