Open Role Play Challenge: Barbarric Monty

[madscientist]

JT, the next one will be a normal sized map. This was a Terra map and they work best on large/huge maps.

 

[JTMacc99]

Picking up from where I left off...

Spoiler :

Shortly into the 18th century, the central continent production powerhouse city of Shelbyville built the following:



The Supreme Leader Monty has given the okay to flood the rest of the continent with settlers. By his calculations, that will be eight more cities. Many workers have are on the continent now, and many more will be needed ASAP.

As the empire concentrates on organic expansion, a threat comes in from the new world:
Umm... No. This did inspire Mad Monty to pick up rifles with the next research project however.

A little while later, Mining Inc. is founded in the holy city of Homer. It will build a single Mining Executive and then start work on Wall Street. A great merchant (from Economics) is working furiously on a business plan to sell raw fish and rice in the same city.


We went on for another dozen or so years before the computer decided it was done for the night. 4 of the eight new cities were founded and two more settlers are on route. Sadly, we are no longer turning a profit at 70% on the slider, but this has a lot to do with the discovery of banking in the new world.

Next on the check list is more cities, the spreading of Mining Inc, researching through Medicine to fuel some explosive growth, found some cities down on the southern continent and then finally start thinking about bringing a few of the new world countries into the fold.

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

@ mad Thanks for your praise, to be honest, I was over medicated when I wrote part 3, and probably still writing part 4 the next day. It just flowed out, it wasn't intended to be like that, I just took so many screen shots in the end, it seemed like a natural split.

Spoiler :

and boy was I issed: when I saw Tokugawa's fleet, right out side my 2 turns engine part city, but dumb AI, No attack on first turn of war, went for a city 1 TILE CLOSER TO ITS HOME LAND, and then tried to take Uzbek Via land, and NOT SEA!!!! GENERAL DUMB A No's 3-12.

Really mad, I have to bow to your effort, consistent sustained, quality work,

Thanks for all who read it, I really enjoyed playing the game, and wanted to convey that, the story just came out of left field really.

P.S. I've edited it a bit, to clean up some grammar, explain the U.N. vote, and changed a from to form or vise versa. Scan's better.

I'm a bit disappointed in the ending, so flat.

 

[madscientist]

@ mad Thanks for your praise, to be honest, I was over medicated when I wrote part 3, and probably still writing part 4 the next day. It just flowed out, it wasn't intended to be like that, I just took so many screen shots in the end, it seemed like a natural split.

Spoiler :

and boy was I issed: when I saw Tokugawa's fleet, right out side my 2 turns engine part city, but dumb AI, No attack on first turn of war, went for a city 1 TILE CLOSER TO ITS HOME LAND, and then tried to take Uzbek Via land, and NOT SEA!!!! GENERAL DUMB A No's 3-12.

Really mad, I have to bow to your effort, consistent sustained, quality work, :bow:

Thanks for all who read it, I really enjoyed playing the game, and wanted to convey that, the story just came out of left field really.

P.S. I've edited it a bit, to clean up some grammar, explain the U.N. vote, and changed a from to form or vise versa. Scan's better.

I'm a bit disappointed in the ending, so flat.

Nonesense! I have found the most popular RPC of all was Sury which I played and wrote up either after having too much to drink or had a fever from the flu!

And grammer?? Come on, this is an RPC, since when has anyone cared about grammer

 

[madscientist]

JTM, That's a nice situation for yourself there!

 

[JTMacc99]

JTM, That's a nice situation for yourself there!

Indeed. As I think I mentioned in one of my first posts, I should have played at my normal Monarch rather than dialing it back to Prince because I wasn't sure about the Large Map and the Aggressive AI.

Quick update with City Status:

Spoiler :

About 2/3 of the way through the 18th century, The Plan for economic world domination is zipping along at a brisk pace. Biology is one turn away, then at the request of the Great Merchant in the city of Homer, we will work on Medicine, needed for his Sushi Corporation.

New world activity has picked up quite a bit, as many caravels and some galleons have been spotted off the coast. Mad Monty has ordered drydocks and privateers built in a couple cities to patrol our coastline. Unfortunately, a lone Holy Roman galleon managed to just outrun an Aztec Privateer and landed a settler and heavy footman on a tundra iron tile directly to the north of our northern continent. Rather than destroying it (and our lucrative trades with Charlie) we simply stationed two Privateers next to the city and set up a blockade. We believe we are successfully disrupting the flow of Iron back to the Holy Roman Empire.

Some privateers are marauding near the Holy Roman and Arabian coasts, and the newest ones are heading down to protect the unclaimed Atztec Southern continent and islands from any potential settlers. It's a big area, so we may even recall the marauders to come back for a while.

They have served the country well, and the Great General El Cid came home and became a military instructor in the Heroic Epic city of Shelbyville. After Shelbyville builds a market to help with its unhappiness issues, it has been ordered to start producing riflemen.

Also of interest, the city of Aztec Park was founded in the central region of the central continent (around where St. Louis would be.) It has rice, bananas, cows, and is on a river. The supreme leader has a vision of preserving all of the jungle and woods surrounding this fertile city to make a glorious national park someday.

The Aztec empire's economy briefly dropped into the red at 70% research, and many heads were in danger of rolling, but some deft trading and reopening borders with some of the new world brought us back into the green. The Supreme Leader is happy. He may even declare a national cultural celebration and bring back slavery for a few years. It seems like every city has some people willing to give their all for the good of the nation.

So, here are the 25 cities as we stand now. Final tally will probably be 40-45 organic.



Shortly after this city update, with Biology fueling growth and Medicine 4-5 turns from completion, the Supreme Leader declared it national heritage week! Seven whole turns of slavery! (Note how this will allow the 8-9 cities I whip in the first turn also go ahead and whip again on the last turn of the "week". The altar is 7 turns of unhappiness at Epic speed.)

Lastly, the first settler to found a city on the southern continent is on a galleon and about to depart. It just needs to make a quick stop to pick up a rifleman on the way.

 

[JTMacc99]

In the year 1826, Supreme Leader Monty...

Spoiler :

is very pleased with the progress of The Plan for complete economic dominance of the world. The middle continent is now mature enough to start building the settlers, workers, and now Infantry to colonize the southern continent. The cities of the Northern continent are building factories and are starting to spread the two powerful corporations of Sid's Sushi and Mining Inc.

Mad Monty contemplates what he should do with his production cities in the North, and that is when he realized that he could easily assemble the greatest army, navy, and air force the world has ever seen.

He begins secret meetings with his advisers on what research paths to take next.

 

[madscientist]

@ JTM

Spoiler :

As was frequently requested to me during numerous RPCs

We want BLOOD, we want CHAOS, we want Aztec sacrifical alters to run with the inner fluids from War0mongers afar!

Am I making myself clear enough!

 

[JTMacc99]

@ JTM

Spoiler :

As was frequently requested to me during numerous RPCs

We want BLOOD, we want CHAOS, we want Aztec sacrifical alters to run with the inner fluids from War0mongers afar!

Am I making myself clear enough!

Heh-heh-heh.

Spoiler :

That seems to be exactly where I'm heading. I just haven't figured out if I should wait until I have enough armed forces to declare war on the whole world at the same time, on a continent, or just start picking them off one at a time as soon as possible. I kind of thought it would fun to issue 8 declarations of war on the same turn, but this group has been building a lot of military. We'll see how it shapes up.

 

[JTMacc99]

Man, this large map thing is a killer. Between managing a boatload of cities and having endless jungle to clear with my workers, every turn requires a lot of decisions. Supreme Leader Monty is looking forward to finally finishing his peaceful expansion and completing his quest for world domination as soon as possible. He has many luxurious resources, and would like to spend the rest of his days enjoying them.

Spoiler :

With economic dominance thoroughly achieved, and with the newly settled cities all being set up with many grassland cottages and supporting themselves within a few short turns, Mad Monty is settled in to a comfortable place. It is now just a matter of completing the settlement of South Aztecia and assembling armed forces that will rapidly convince all other nations to join him or die.

Interestingly, with all of the constant fighting and deal breaking, the Aztec nation frequently needs to make sure it is trading it's excess resources for something valuable. In 1848, we strike a couple deals with the Zulu nation.

One to up the value of Sid's:


And another one to bring in 3 separate things that are not currently being collected in any of the Aztec lands:


And speaking of resources, a few years later, General Monty would like to know why he can't upgrade his galleons to transports. Apparently, nobody bothered to check if we were actually in control of an oil resource. OOPS. Several were discovered, but most of them were offshore. There is one in the southern portion of Central Aztecia, but no cultural borders are going to be capturing it any time soon.

A city could be founded near that oil, but it is near the "Mountain Wheat", and no Aztec citizens are willing to live anywhere near what they believe to be the work of the devil.

So, where is the most convenient oil? Why, it is in the tundra directly to the north of Northern Aztecia:


Well. This certainly seems like a good opportunity to try out some of the newly commissioned infantry. We give Charlie a jingle:


A couple turns later, they are Aztec cities and four workers are dropped off to get the oil rig up and running. We accept a peace treaty with Charlie, since we would really rather have some nice metal ships in our possession before we drop in to visit his homeland.

Business went back to normal. Airports were constructed in all of the ancient cities of North Aztecia. Then these cities were going to start producing some workers, corporate executives, and settlers to fly down to South Aztecia to complete the expansion. The Central Aztecian cities were either completing the basic needs buildings (Forges, Drydocks for the future naval yards cities, commerce multipliers for the cottage cities) or building the garrison troops for the new cities.

Then, this happened:


The city of Grandpa Simpson was taken in a shocking surprise attack by useful trading partner Shaka!

Hmph. He brought a lot more troops than just that knight. Most of them died trying to take the lightly defended city. (I think there was a CGIIC1 Rifle and maybe a couple older units there.) General Monty ordered most North Aztecian cities to immediately switch over and build a strong military unit (paratroopers mostly, as industrialism was just a couple turns away), but....


Railroads and a couple of infantry units in the vicinity quickly recaptured the city.

A destroyer and a couple of transports quickly hunted down and destroyed the fleet of galleons and caravels. Shaka accepted peace and gave us some cash to pay for the trouble he caused.

The Aztec citizens will not forget.

As the 19th century came to a close, Aztec scientists had launched their first satellites, and General Monty will use his new maps to develop his military strategy. To be fair, he is being extremely cautious with his planning, not at all living up to his barbaric roots. Those who know him best think it has a lot to do with being kind of fat and happy with all of his domestic success.

Hopefully he will eventually remember what he's really good for, and start teaching the rest of the world a lesson sometime soon.

 

[madscientist]

Man, this large map thing is a killer. Between managing a boatload of cities and having endless jungle to clear with my workers, every turn requires a lot of decisions. Supreme Leader Monty is looking forward to finally finishing his peaceful expansion and completing his quest for world domination as soon as possible. He has many luxurious resources, and would like to spend the rest of his days enjoying them.

Heh Heh! Dispicable I know, but the idea was somewhat suggested during/after the Sury RPC and saved it anticipating an open RPC! When things get long in this RPC just think back to those 72 hours playing the insane Sury RPC!!!!

Now, let me go read the spoiler!

 

[Loknar]

I played this game to the end, achieving an apparently not much appreciated Cultural Victory with a score of 53’072 in 1818 AD. It’s certainly not one of my top games and this is the first report I write, so don’t expect too much.

I normally play Monarch, so I just took Mad’s save. I had read none of the other reports when I started the game and had seen nothing but the starting screens of Mad Scientist - and indeed, I missed a crucial part of the setting, as you will see in the report. I decided for a cultural victory before I started the game, mainly because my computer wouldn’t allow a fun warlord game of a large map while running BUG 3.6.

I had overwhelming dominance over the whole course of the game and I built all wonders except Temple of Artemis and founded all four late religions. When the game ended, only one of my competitors had Astronomy whereas I had Combustion.

The report may be worthwhile to read for two reasons - the second being a first time achievement for myself:

1. I set up a very juicy triple holy Oxford University Wall Street Capital that also became Creative Constructions cradle towards the end of the game and made quite a nice show under Bureaucracy.

2. I took Railroad from Liberalism. Yeah! (I know this is stupid if you want an early cultural victory, but did it for the same reason as dogs lick their balls.)

Spoiler Phase 1: Where I set up the three prospective legendaries :

I did not settle in place because my capital had to be mainly a production city building wonders and I wanted all grassland hills visible, so I settled on the Spices. Stone in the BFC was a nice surprise, though the capital was a little low on food. Well, never mind, I started building a worker and teching Mining:

Tech Path: Animal Husbandry (hut) - Mining - Masonry - Bronze - Wheel - Agriculture - Poly - start Mono - Priesthood - Writing - Code of Laws (Oracle) - finish Mono - Iron - Fishing - Sailing - Mathematics - Aesthetics - Lit - Theo - Metal Casting - Compass (hut) - Music -



Shortly after, I popped Animal Husbandry from a hut:



All the better I had started with a worker! I found another nice surprise near Tenochtitlan:



Horses in the BFC! I also popped two turns of research for Mining (and another Scout):



I then teched Masonry and after that the Wheel to connect the stone while starting on Stonehenge to let the city grow a little before starting on the second worker. I should have built Stonehenge in my second city to keep GP pools clean, but at that point I didn’t realize that I would be able to build so many wonders, so I just built what I thought easily available.



Once the Stone was hooked up, the Wonders took a blink:



And in 2560 BC, I got my defenses in place, no moment too soon. Tenochtitlan still didn’t have a single defender - and now wouldn’t need one soon:



I had only some Chariots hanging around in my cities. I then got a very clear hint that there was not too much grandeur in my behaviour:



After I explored my part of the continent, I drew my first dotmap:



The red spots were to be settled first, and after some pondering I decided the copper-fish site would be my third culture city and the marble-wheat site my military production city. In retrospect, I should have founded my third culture city 1E2N of the western red spot. But I didn’t know it would get Iron then.

In 2110 BC, Teotihuacan, my future capital, was founded - with a lot of rivers, the floodplain rice and cows, and two hills for production an almost ideal spot. And as a financial centre, it would simply be cottaged up:



As you can see, I had produced two Chariots and had began building the Pyramids. I also aimed at Monotheism to found a first religion in Teotihuacan, but lost it (to Toku). I decided to go for the Oracle and teched Priesthood, followed by Pottery.

In 1710 BC, the Pyramids came in and I switched to Representation.



I also got my first GP, a Spy who got settled in Teotihuacan:



Finally, I got some good news from the world - not much of a surprise, though:



At this point, I stupidly forgot to tech Writing and had to reload because soon, the Oracle was ready to spit out its wisdom:



And:



Religion number 1! I proceeded to found Tlatelolco and Texcoco according to schedule:





In 130 BC, I got my first Prophet and built the Confu shrine. You can also see that I had founded another city and that the Great Library and the Hanging Gardens had been whipped this round while Texcoco is still building a Lighthouse:



Confu was spread to all of my cities and I had already switched to OR, so Teotihuacan was ready to receive religion number 2. As you can see, the pops of the other cities were so low that they had a very slim chance to get Christianity - and indeed:



I began to build the AP immediatly in Tenochtitlan. Meanwhile, I had also explored the vast southern landmass and found several huts one of which gave me:



I got a first Scientist who built an Academy in Teotihuacan, and another Spy who was also settled in Teotihuacan. Teotihuacan later also got a Scotland Yard and was producing enough espi points that I later saw the techs of all my competitors and mostly also their production without ever touching the espi slider.

I also got the Classical Literature quest, and since the Great Lighthouse had still not been built, I tried a desperate shot at it in Texcoco:



And indeed, in 270 AD (!), I could whip the Great Lighthouse in Texcoco for three pop and so it got its first wonder:



And I began to wonder what the rest of the world was doing. I didn’t even get many messages about Generals being born. They probably just enjoyed live and their luxurious resources.

The Artist from Music was settled in Teotihuacan which already had Library and stuff. For the sake of my victory, I should have settled him in Texcoco which was to lag behind in culture badly, as you can imagine.

 

[Loknar]

Spoiler Phase 2: Setting up the religious economy and meeting my opponents :

Tech path: Meditation - Civil Service - Drama - Calendar - Machinery - Optics - Engineering - Currency - Monarchy - Feudalism - Guilds - Banking - Paper - Education - Nationalism - Printing Press - Steam Power - Gunpowder - Steel - Liberalism - Railroad

In 645 Tycho de Brahe was born, who was not to found Astonomy but the principles of Philosophy - but not just yet:



I had already spread Christianity to all my older cities and produced a last missionary to bring Confu to my newly founded city, Xochicalco, which got Christianity by itself.



As you can see, Tlatelolco has pop 9 and Texcoco pop 8 - so I switched to Slavery and most cities got a violent lash with the whip:



After that, Tycho de Brahe had to sacrifice himself for the higher good - and Bingo! - religion number 3!



And though I had only seven cities, Pliny had something nicer to tell me than in his last "greatest work" (he must be an American with his penchant for superlatives):



Shortly after that, I got a second Prophet from Teotihuacan, who was used for:



As you can see, I prepared to move the Palace to Teotihuacan to put Bureaucracy to good use before Liberalism came in. I was also teching towards Optics and thought it would be a good idea to settle some of my spacious lands before the others would get Astro.

This was my draft dotmap:



The lower cyan city with the Horses should have been my National Epic city since Texcoco was building the Moai Statues and also needed the Hermitage when it was available. But National Epic never got built - nor Globe Theatre. The barb city in the east had more food in the fog, so I had to rearrange everything later.

And while I was building Caravels and upgrading my Triremes, Tenochtitlan worked on another wonder that I thought crucial to my strategy:



Well, it turned out not to be. But for now, I carefully avoided first contact before it was done, as you can see on the minimap.



Then I met my first competitors: Solemn Charly:



Stiff-necked Ghengis:



I’ll spare you the rest - except this:



On the upper right corner, you can see the place were Monty’s settler had started the game before he had been beamed to the new world by Mad Scientist. This gave Toku a considerable advantage - which apparently he was able to use later on to the point he was leading the whole flock of thugs. Land really is power in this game. And concentration is still its essence, though not as much as before.

And then I checked the all-important tech screen:



LOL! At this point I checked Mad Scientist’s game description and realized the game was without tech trading.

I wasn’t too popular, but still more than Charly:



The next turn, I got my third Spy from Tenochtitlan and used it for a Scotland Yard in my new capital, Teotihuacan. It gave me city visibility to most of my competitors, which had its advantages:



I switched production, whipped some pop away and:



Charly would have better invested the hammers into military, since he got badly dogpiled by his not too amiable neighbourhood and later vassaled to Al (who himself got dogpiled a little later). The MoM was not much good to me either, because I only had one GA (from the Taj).

I was surprised to see Al in charge of the Buddhist holy city, but he got it from Justin, of course, who was stupid enough not to block the chokepoint to Al’s peninsula in the south. I then switched back to OR as Diplomacy didn’t really matter in this game. I sent a confu missionary to most leaders (except Toku, who wouldn’t want to open borders, of course), but didn’t really aim at a diplo victory - which would have been cheesy anyway.

Meanwhile, I got Archimedes, the great Engineer, which I wanted to use for Versailles when Divine Right was researched, because, as you can see, my research rate had dropped considerably while I began to settle the middle part of my continent. And I finally finished the Classic Literature quest (which I long before supposed to be lost) and got:



Nice! Meanwhile, on the religious front:



My cities: Before -



and after another hearty lash with the whip:



It didn’t matter if Tenochtitlan or Texcoco got Islam, and I got the desired result again:



Religion is obviously much easier to control in Civ than in RL.

I then teched Education and wasn’t sure how to proceed. Liberalism would be important for the cultural victory, but it was also tempting to expand my tech lead even further. I decided for the latter and went Nationalism - Printing Press - Steam Power - Gunpowder - Steel and finally:

(drum rolls)



I actually had to save while researching Steam Power because I was too tired. This was the situation then:

The main part of the old continent was a total mess:



I saw no reason to interfere since they were obviously entertaining themselves without me.

Toku’s lands:



Al’s peninsula:



Diplomacy:



My good pals Ragnar and Shaka were constantly asking for some help with wars, and I always agreed if it was a dogpile, as here with Al. My support was only morally, though, as I never spilt any of my esteemed artists’ blood, of course.

And techs:



Still LOL. Charly, Ghengis and Sal didn’t even have Alphabet yet! Perhaps they didn’t realize it was useful for other things then tech trading. Ragnar and Shaka had Optics, though, so it was time to build some defenses.

 

[Loknar]

Spoiler Phase 3: The short end with some laughable military action at last :

Tech path: Constitution - Corporation - Combustion - Democracy - Rifling - Sci Meths - Mil Trad - start Physics

In the meantime, I had built the Taj and after a long time, Teotihuacan got its third shrine:



It already had Oxford University and I was heading for Wall Street, as you can see, and I even got some help from the RNGs:



To appease my fellows, as hard as they were to be, I then joined into another dogpile, this time against Ghengis:



And I finally sent Archimedes to build Creative Constructions in Teotihuacan:



You can also see that Toku finally got around to research Astro and I was sure that he would try to invade me soon. And indeed, as soon as he had finished it:



I wasn’t too bothered, though, as the game would be over soon. But again, I had to save the game, as it took longer than I had expected.

Victory conditions (as you can see, I hadn’t even really turned up the culture slider up to now):



Toku landed a big stack of backwards forces and in fact took one of my cities, the one which was closest to him. I whipped some Cavalry, Rifles and Cannons and took it back - and he was never seen again, especially because I had blocked access to my continent with a line of Destroyers after that. He could have taken Texcoco, my coastal cultural city, and spoil my victory, as I had not prepared properly for his invasion, but he was so eager on Sushi that he didn’t bother. I forgot to take a screen shot from the unequal battle action, but Coyotepec was the city Toku had besieged:



And shortly after:



Graphs:



Look at my GNP! Religious economy rocks! Culture is also quite impressive, but I didn’t expect the others to invest much in that. And Military - well, any additional troops would have been a mere luxury in this game.

Demographics:



Why do my people alway seem to die so young? Is it because I am running a Corporation Health Care System? Does anyone know how Life Expectancy is measured? It can’t be my Chariots which were hanging around idly for 3000 years, can it?

Top cities:



All mine! The ToA had originally been built by Charly, IIRR.

My cities, one turn before victory:



I had been to lazy to properly settle the whole continent, as it didn’t seem to matter.

My cultural cities:

Teotihuacan, my new capital:



Tenochtitlan, my old capital:



The cottages had been built only after Democracy, before it was only farms and mines.

And Texcoco, which got a great work culture infusion towards the end and has caught up quite nicely:



Polaroid:



He’s looking more dumb than insane, I think.

And finally, flying camera parting shot from my homelands:

Some final remarks:

I find no tech trading dull, since it takes out the most important part of diplomacy. It was the first time I played such a game and I don’t think I’ll ever do it again.

I can’t play any large maps since the battles run in slow motion with BUG 3.6. Does anyone know if I can disable some options in BUG to speed things up? (I know it’s relatively easy to disable it completely, but I really like the dotmapper, so I only do that as a last resort when my opponents begin to spin off their micro-vassals on an Archipelago map.)

The game would have been more balanced if the original setup had one leader less and Monty had been added in as an extra leader in WB. (I don’t know if this is possible in WB, though, as I’ve never fumbled with WB so far.)

I could have won much earlier - as in most games I play - if I didn’t divert to some experiments like my Lib tech, if I had properly assigned only Artists, run a proper SE and so on.

The religious economy is quite strong since it adds to other types of economy, but it involves some micro-managing and is only easily doable with a spiritual leader.

Thanks for the game, I enjoyed it though it wasn’t really action-loaded the way I played it.

 

[madscientist]

Loknar

Spoiler :

A win is a win! Plenty of the RPCs I played well and ended in a loss

I understand the boredom with no tech trading, but given the map I thought it best! Little diplomacy, Bah I just helped you by keeping you away from those morons in teh old world!

 

[JTMacc99]

those morons in the old world!

My Aztec citizens prefer to think of them as the morons in the new world, given that they are the most cultured and advanced of the ancient civilizations. Not to mention, we found them, they didn't find us.

 

[kartrak]

Well, i acually won my first monarch space win only two days ago, have neved played with aggressive ai and no tech trading, and had no idea how to change the level to monarch and epic, so i went with the default settings....built the great wall and rexed poorly ..but still got a few wonders, oracled confu, bulbed philo for tao and actually managed to win lib and get astro incredible by my poor standards. My joy was short lived however , on seeing this...

Spoiler :

Seriously..no matter how poor my playing skills are... every other ai vassalizing means i cannot even dream of an intercontinental war...was fun though,first time on emporer and 3rd time marathon... gonna play out to the end anyway.

sorry for the poor image display, never done it before

 

[JTMacc99]

"Holy" Crap. That's fascinating.

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

Kartrak, you should read my game, there they all vassalized to Tokugawa, HOLLY CRAP...

Thing is, they all lasted till about 1800's before they all fell in line, the last one, falling in line in 1920's or so, after I kept gifting troops to support them but just a matter of time.

and you know what victory conditions Tokie had, space and conquest. Tried both, read to find out if he actually succeeded.

PLUG PLUG.

 

[kartrak]

Kartrak, you should read my game, there they all vassalized to Tokugawa, HOLLY CRAP...

Thing is, they all lasted till about 1800's before they all fell in line, the last one, falling in line in 1920's or so, after I kept gifting troops to support them but just a matter of time.

and you know what victory conditions Tokie had, space and conquest. Tried both, read to find out if he actually succeeded.

PLUG PLUG.

Yep, ur story was brilliantly written and great fun to read....
In my case, charlie had spent over 5000 years fighting,fighting and ...fighting.
I went into WB and saw that justinian had been reduce to 2 cities, sal had only six cities, no use strengthening him.... and charlie had most of gengis empire

Still, this has convinced me to stick to monarch for the time being... one step at a time