Opinion of Game Strategy?

[direblade99]

Hello everyone,

So I'm an emperor level player who's had a couple early games on immortal, and although I can consistently win on both difficulties I can no where near match the output of many of the people I see on these forums.

I find it hard to understand how many other players here manage to win turn 250ish or even earlier science wins, when my earliest ever win (standard speed of course) was in the late 280's.

And please don't tell me that when I move up to deity I will tech faster because I've seen HoF results as well as many of the statements of people like tommynt on these forums and typically they can get good (or in tommynts case insane) turn times on any difficulty. Now I'm not asking to be like Tich or Tommynt, but I just want advice on how to optimise my playstyle.

So here goes.

My opening build order is usually something like scout - monument- shrine/granary - if I went granary first worker/ if not then i go granary - worker/library - library

My policy choice when going for science is straight tradition with progress going up to landed elite, then monarchy, then wonder one, then oligarchy. After that I tend to sink a couple policies into commerce and then rationalism as soon as available.

Tech choice is usually pottery - lux tech - mining (if not lux tech) and then writing and i make my way up to philosophy (unless I have a close neighbour or someone around who looks warmongery then I almost certainly go archery before philo and build at least 4 by turn 60 ish which is when i find most AI tend to attack on my difficulty if they're agro. After that I go construction for colluseums and comp bows and then I go Civil service beeline - education beeline

City count is usually 4, occasionally 3 if my area sucks (low food/production or both) or 5 if there's no one around and happiness is OK.

I tend to get NC by early 80's most games, never later than 95, often I will use a couple workers to speed it up even more to 70's.

I usually have about 3 cities by the time I go NC and then get a fourth straight after.

I do steal a city state worker too in early game in case you're wondering.

This is all I can think of right now (it's 3 AM) but tomorrow I may put up some screenshots of my typical games and ask for advice.

All constructive feedback is welcome.

Thanks you all so much

 

[budweiser]

The optimal strategy for a fast finish is salt and wheat.

 

[TheGrumpyBuddha]

Hello everyone,

So I'm an emperor level player who's had a couple early games on immortal, and although I can consistently win on both difficulties I can no where near match the output of many of the people I see on these forums.

I find it hard to understand how many other players here manage to win turn 250ish or even earlier science wins, when my earliest ever win (standard speed of course) was in the late 280's.

Don't put that kind of pressure on yourself. Those win times are with OP civs on good/great maps, and mostly before the patch where building the spaceship took fewer hammers. Sure, with Poland on a map where you start next to wheat, salt, and a mountain, have 4+ settling spots, and can mug a couple of workers early, yes you can get pre-250 SV wins if you play everything else superbly. No early mass mugging, no cap next to a mountain, no primo settling spots, of course you're not going to get a turn 250SV win, or even 270.

(I can't emphasize how important the worker muggings can be -- I'm amazed at how much faster my game goes when I have mugged a couple of AI workers before turn 20, vs struggling without any until turn 30 or 40).

 

[joshua43214]

People do win with any old civ before T250, it only requires a decent map, not an OP civ or baked start. Those are the elite players though for the most part, so I agree not to put too much pressure on yourself about it.

You seem to have the earliest part of the game down. The first 100 turns sets the ground for the rest of the game, and you seem to be doing that well from your post. The only suggestions I might make is to steal workers from the AI rather than a CS if possible, and not make peace until it is impossible to steal more. I would build 2 scouts while researching Pottery, then granary/shrine and take the free monument from tradition, this way you can use one scout for worker stealing and build a 3rd scout at some point to help the other one.

The super fast win times are now all about the next 80 turns. Sticking with 3 cities means a 300 turn win (which is just fine). Getting 250 turn wins almost requires 5 or 6 well developed cities. So you have to get them out by T110ish and get them pumped up and ready fro schools by the time to reach scientific theory (hard to do if landlocked), or go capture a couple of nice tall cities from the AI (most efficient method usually). Set your self the goal of plastics and 1300bpt by turn 165, and your finish times will then be dictated by how fast you can produce the parts rather than how fast to tech.

 

[Parlique]

One thing I find interesting is trying to replay your games. (I know it may appears quite boring to many players) The game which helped me the most was a Shoshone one. Although I was favored, I managed a ~300 the first time, 280 the second and 260 science victory the third time I played it. The idea is not only to try to avoid errors, but to try differents things which might help you for future games.
In my case, I consider that city states diplomacy was a part of the game I was ignoring to much.

 

[Plumfairy]

Tech choice is usually pottery - lux tech - mining (if not lux tech) and then writing and i make my way up to philosophy (unless I have a close neighbour or someone around who looks warmongery then I almost certainly go archery before philo and build at least 4 by turn 60 ish which is when i find most AI tend to attack on my difficulty if they're agro. After that I go construction for colluseums and comp bows and then I go Civil service beeline - education beeline

Wow. You sometimes wait that long before researching archery? How do you keep the barbarians away from your settlers & workers? Do you play w/out raging barbarians?

This isn't a criticism or suggestion, by the way. I'm honestly curious.

 

[direblade99]

Wow. You sometimes wait that long before researching archery? How do you keep the barbarians away from your settlers & workers? Do you play w/out raging barbarians?

This isn't a criticism or suggestion, by the way. I'm honestly curious.

Nah fair enough , well my build order was established when i used to play with no barbs, but I usually have the starting warrior escorting settlers and workers between cities, sometimes i make an extra scout to keep lookout. When not being escorted I make sure that workers (I ALWAYS escort settlers) are within close enough range of the city to quickly hide from any barbs seen.

But you're right in that I generally do go archery first, I only don't if there's like no AI around my area. I probably should have been more clear on that

 

[direblade99]

People do win with any old civ before T250, it only requires a decent map, not an OP civ or baked start. Those are the elite players though for the most part, so I agree not to put too much pressure on yourself about it.

You seem to have the earliest part of the game down. The first 100 turns sets the ground for the rest of the game, and you seem to be doing that well from your post. The only suggestions I might make is to steal workers from the AI rather than a CS if possible, and not make peace until it is impossible to steal more. I would build 2 scouts while researching Pottery, then granary/shrine and take the free monument from tradition, this way you can use one scout for worker stealing and build a 3rd scout at some point to help the other one.

The super fast win times are now all about the next 80 turns. Sticking with 3 cities means a 300 turn win (which is just fine). Getting 250 turn wins almost requires 5 or 6 well developed cities. So you have to get them out by T110ish and get them pumped up and ready fro schools by the time to reach scientific theory (hard to do if landlocked), or go capture a couple of nice tall cities from the AI (most efficient method usually). Set your self the goal of plastics and 1300bpt by turn 165, and your finish times will then be dictated by how fast you can produce the parts rather than how fast to tech.

How do you generate enough beakers to get to plastics so fast? I get that you have to grow really fast but when I do that (esp with 5-6 cities) I always go unhappy and can't sustain it.

 

[TheGrumpyBuddha]

How do you generate enough beakers to get to plastics so fast? I get that you have to grow really fast but when I do that (esp with 5-6 cities) I always go unhappy and can't sustain it.

I think we'd all like to see a game where they're at 1300bpt by turn 165.

 

[direblade99]

So I decided to play the first few turns just to show you guys what I'm doing and to get feedback

So I decided to go Siam, and on my first roll I got this start.

Spoiler :

I thought that start looked pretty good (really good in fact, I haven't had one like that in ages, my luck with starts is terrible) and so I decided to go with it.

I moved my settler one tile and settled on the hill, for obvious reasons.

Spoiler :

Sukhothai

City Screen turn 3 (I got a dude from ruin)

Spoiler :

Turn 7

Spoiler :

Found Lhasa and a barb encampment, 2 turns in to monument

Turn 10, met another city state and found china

Spoiler :

Turn 19, barbs are being dicks, found more city states.

Spoiler :

Next turn I stole a chinese worker with my warrior

Spoiler :

Turn 46, got forward settled by china who's still at war with me. Going philo and waiting for my pop to grow one more, after that I will switch from library to settler, also sending an archer up to help my scout barb bust for city states.

Spoiler :

Turn 55, getting out second settler.

Spoiler :

Turn 61, busted an encampment for 4 different city states, including maritime quebec city.

Spoiler :

Turn 62, killed a barb, now allied with Quebec city.

Spoiler :

Capital City screen turn 62

Spoiler :

Empire screen turn 65, here's where I left off.

Spoiler :

I reckon I've done uncharacteristically well, I've gotten lucky with lots of things I don't usually get lucky with. A strategic error I made though was not enough workers.

Does anyone have any feedback on this stage of the game? If so, please contribute.

Thank you.

 

[tommynt]

I think we'd all like to see a game where they're at 1300bpt by turn 165.

should have video footage of that

edit: yes assyirya final 1500 bakkers turn 165 and boosting them fast till 1800+ in t170
space win t190

Also this is very little about land unlicky some1 else posted.
doesnt really matter if u got wheat and salt or coastal or lots mountains or op natural wonders or lot dschungel tiles.
all of these above mentioned are very helpful, but u wont have all of these in one game but usually at least 1

 

[direblade99]

should have video footage of that

edit: yes assyirya final 1500 bakkers turn 165 and boosting them fast till 1800+ in t170
space win t190

Also this is very little about land unlicky some1 else posted.
doesnt really matter if u got wheat and salt or coastal or lots mountains or op natural wonders or lot dschungel tiles.
all of these above mentioned are very helpful, but u wont have all of these in one game but usually at least 1

Out of curiosity, what difficulty? Deity?

 

[chumchu]

Looking at your screenshot I suggest either settling one tile northeast by the mountain for a standard tradition strategy or on the gems for a fast start and a larger number of tiles for petra and/or desert folklore if you want to gamble a bit.

 

[Johan^^]

You seem to have the earliest part of the game down. The first 100 turns sets the ground for the rest of the game, and you seem to be doing that well from your post. The only suggestions I might make is to steal workers from the AI rather than a CS if possible, and not make peace until it is impossible to steal more. I would build 2 scouts while researching Pottery, then granary/shrine and take the free monument from tradition, this way you can use one scout for worker stealing and build a 3rd scout at some point to help the other one.

The super fast win times are now all about the next 80 turns. Sticking with 3 cities means a 300 turn win (which is just fine). Getting 250 turn wins almost requires 5 or 6 well developed cities. So you have to get them out by T110ish and get them pumped up and ready fro schools by the time to reach scientific theory (hard to do if landlocked), or go capture a couple of nice tall cities from the AI (most efficient method usually). Set your self the goal of plastics and 1300bpt by turn 165, and your finish times will then be dictated by how fast you can produce the parts rather than how fast to tech.

If you plant cities after turn 100 your not during it right and it will delay your finish time. If you dont have your cities Down by turn ~100, you should take one or two nice AI cities, as they easily can contain 20 pop and tons of nice Buildings...

Just a commend on the "OP" civs, i dont really think this is the case. It can be done with every Civ, ofcause denmark might be a Little worse than korea, but its not like it matters 30-50 turns...

On the other hand, city placements does ! So try and get cities with good Growth potential and with a mountain in the first ring or just generally good city spots. Another ting that matters greatly is happiness. NEVER go into red. Keep that Growth going all the time.

 

[Johan^^]

You want to have a fast science Victory and then you forgo settling NeXT to mountain, meaning that you will lose the 50% science from observatory ?

 

[direblade99]

You want to have a fast science Victory and then you forgo settling NeXT to mountain, meaning that you will lose the 50% science from observatory ?

There was no food there basically and it was landlocked

 

[TheGrumpyBuddha]

should have video footage of that

edit: yes assyirya final 1500 bakkers turn 165 and boosting them fast till 1800+ in t170
space win t190

I don't see Science 2, Science 3, or what happens between Science 4 and your 1600bpt, so that's an issue with seeing how you managed that.

Also, do you really think you were guaranteed Petra in that game? Beating out the AI on Deity for Petra is damned tough, even with the almost-ideal placement you had re all those hills.

 

[TheGrumpyBuddha]

BTW, if through some combination of a great starting spot, perfect play, and miracle you can take over one or two civs and get most of your science from them, that's great -- it's beyond my capability -- but I don't see how it's possible without Assyria. As a general rule, I don't see how it's possible without a huge conquest early on, and I don't see how a huge conquest early on is possible on Deity without incredible luck and/or Assyria.

I mention this because Joshua's line

Set your self the goal of plastics and 1300bpt by turn 165, and your finish times will then be dictated by how fast you can produce the parts rather than how fast to tech.

sounds like a general rule and I think it's a goal the way winning a gold in the Olympics is a goal.

 

[Plumfairy]

I moved my settler one tile and settled on the hill, for obvious reasons.

I think you would have been much, much better off moving your settler one more tile & founding a city on the hill that's touching two mountain tiles. (one on either side) All 3 currently visible resources would still be in range of the city, you'd still be settling on top of a hill, your city will have access to plenty of food-oriented tiles, and your capital would be able to house both the NC and an Observatory, which is *fantastic*. The only downside that I can see is that you would delay founding your capital by one more turn, which does kinda suck. (Especially considering that you probably want to get a pantheon ASAP for Desert Folklore.) But the benefits far outweigh the penalties, IMO.

 

[Memoryjar]

I thought winning super fast is a good path to progress. Now I prefer win in all conditions, try to not play again and again same gameplay (specially full tradition).