Oracle

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Dec 29, 2017
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Today I found a post by PotatoMcWhiskey on which Wonders he thought to be top tier. Among the usual suspects like Pyramids, Colosseum or the Mausoleum, the one that stood out for me was the Oracle. I have >1000 hours in game, play on Immortal 90% of the time and 10% on Deity, know decently about the game since I write the strategy parts for most of the civs and behind the scene game mechanics on civ wiki, but I never think much about this Wonder. One of Potato's viewers swore by it, telling me how amazing the Oracle was. What do you guys think about this Wonder? Is it good? Is it THAT good to the level that it is game changing in every situation you build it? (At least thats how I interpret S tier Wonders, strong and game changing in every situation and useful for every civs, like Pyramids, Colosseum, Forbidden Palace, Big Ben, blah blah blah.)
 
I think on higher difficulties it is a S-tier wonder for a couple of reasons:
- relatively easier to get than others of the early wonders;
- super useful to catch up on GPP, especially campus if you are going to sciences or culture, as the AI will have 5-10 great scientists points very quickly, and you want to have some of these early inspirations or add science for campus.
- great to boost other GPP, like merchants, general or others

Personnally i would always go for it, as it really has no huge downside. Maybe not that useful for diplo or religious, but it still strong.
 
Oracle is that good. Build it in the city where you will build the districts granting you the GPs you most want. Upgrade Pingala to Grants and watch them pour in. I always prioritize it before T55 on Deity and it's almost guaranteed.
 
If you're making or plan on making a lot of faith, it's great for santching Great People. At high-tier levels of play, gaming the GPP system correctly is very important especially if you're going for a science victory.

That being said, I wouldn't put it in the S-tier. It definitely has its uses, but their are just certain play styles that will never use it.
 
The only real downside I find to it is I swear I get invaded by my neighbor every time I'm in the middle of building it. It's at that awkward time when rushes happen.
 
Yep, totally worth it.
Oracle plus Pingala alone gets a district with a tier1 building to 8 GPP.
I am playing Scotland right now in a mp-game - oh boy a campus with library and university gets it to 14 GPP in that city alone. Not a single great scientist has been lost ... until right now (T140)
 
Another fan here - I love the Oracle and will build it every game, pretty much. It also has a nice synergy with the Divine Spark pantheon, which I often go for.
 
Oracle is good stacked as said: promoted Pingala is the main one. Divine Spark, Stockholm, and the second tier of a cultural alliance are other methods.

The GPP faith purchasing discount is a nice bonus if you are a big faith production civ, but there are a lot of things to spend faith on now.
 
It's the sort of wonder that I don't often build, but when I do, I'm impressed with how awesome it is if you have it in the right situation.

Basically, if you do go through Pingala's Grants promotion, a city with the Oracle, a campus, and Pingala now produces 6 Great Scientist points by itself. Which if you can get it early enough, can really rocket you through the great people. As he mentioned in his China stream, he had only one campus in his empire, but Pingala+Oracle meant that he was actually rolling in Great Scientist points.
 
My thoughts I posted elsewhere for wonders:

Spoiler :

A= Game changing wonder.

B= Solid wonders to have in a game

C= Borderline, Niche

D= Poor value

F= Useless or even detrimental.

Great Bath Decent, but impossible to build. Guess for capture like most early wonders. D

Hanging Gardens Not much use, also very hard to build. F

Oracle Good for dedicated GP strategies, but requires you to have some decent space to expand or else you'll be boxed in or just flat out killed. You also need to set this up by building districts quickly or having faith generation. B

Pyramids A fabolous wonder that scales as the game goes along since builders increase in cost the more you build. A

Stonehenge No F

Temple of Artemis Another strong wonder, but it requires you to build it fast at a massive opportunity cost. B

Terracotta Army Can be strong for niche military strategies, problem is building it in time. C

Apadana Good for certain cultural strategies or Sweden but also goes insanely fast and requires more investment for envoys. C (A as China)

Great Lighthouse Faster ships is not game changing D

Great Library It's somewhat interesting, as it keeps giving you boosts throughout the game. Also good for cultural victories B

Colossus-- 1 trade route isn't bad, but a bit w/e. If your empire is a bit small (playing on an island map, it looks better) C

Mahabodhi Temple-- Great for Diplomatic Victories, kinda meh for everything else. B

Macchu Pichu Great Wonder, but I can never build it. N/A

Mausoleum at Halicarnassus Massive value for your great Engineers, plus science and culture are the best yields to get at this point. A

Petra Situational, but makes use out of otherwise useless land. B

Jebel Barkal Can be useful if you lack iron. Faith is okay, but not really that groundbreaking. C

Colosseum-- Largest boost to an entire empire early game. A

Angkor Wat-- For an entire wonder? I think they must have overvalued housing. F

Alhambra Extra Military Slot isn't really necessary by this time, but it has its uses. Probably the weakest of the extra policy wonders. But it is an extra policy. C

University of Sankore Science is good, but you really have to work on the placement for this. B

Hagia Sophia-- Best wonder for a Religious Victory B

Chichen Itza-- Situational like Petra, but the AI has a weird obsession with it so I hate it. C

Kotoku-in-- Warrior Monks for an entire wonder? Extra faith is sorta meh but it could work with Reliquiaries. D

Kilwa Kisiwani-- Potential 15% global boost to multiple yields. This can be the strongest wonder in the entire game under some conditions and at the very least 3 envoys is good. A

Meenakshi Temple Gurus? I've never built one nor this wonder. F

Huey Teocalli Super niche, but notice it affects all lake tiles in your empire. C

Mont St. Michel Home to the cheesiest strategy in the game. A

Great Zimbabwe Solid Gold booster, requires a good setup though. B

St. Basil's Cathedral-- Snow Petra B

Casa de Contratación Great wonder for expansive empires B* (A as Phoenicia)

Taj Mahal Oh look, everyone gets to be Georgia. F

Potala Palace Diplomatic cards start to really pick up mid-game, and this wonder is perfect for it. B

Forbidden City An extra wildcard slot is one of the finest gifts around. A

Venetian Arsenal Strong for naval games, but the thing here is that ancient era ships are so cheap to make and upgrade since ship production cards are +100% production anyways. But I don't want to argue this too heavily. B

Oxford University-- 2 free techs, and the only thing in this game that can do it. Extra science is neat too. A

Bolshoi Theatre Also good for barreling down the last civics you need. B

Hermitage Basically an overpriced art museum that doesn't even theme if not Swedish. I don't even bother with this wonder most of the time in culture victories unless I have nothing better to do, much less outside. D (C as Russia)

Panama Canal-- I feel like this is more of a vanity wonder except in some naval games but it does have its place if you're going to place a strategical city-- may as well go all the way. C

Big Ben-- $$$$$$ and the card. Honestly, I value this over Forbidden City. A

Országház-- Cool favor generator, but I feel that's not the most important thing at this point. C

Statue of Liberty-- Has no use outside of Diplo victories, unless you capture it. C

Ruhr Valley-- Good production boost for your future spaceport city. B

Effel Tower-- Cornerstone of some cultural victories. B (A as Australia and Canada)

Golden Gate Bridge- Another strong addition to cultural victories, but a lot more specific. Best with the above. B

Broadway Decent culture boost and inspiration, but hardly vital. C

Cristo Redento Another component to late culture victories, but significantly more optional than Effel Tower ever since mountain resorts became a thing. C

Estádio do Maracanã Solves all amenity problems, and is usually worth pursuing if the game is going thanks to GS"s longer tech/civic trees. A

Amundsen-Scott Research Station Global boost to production and science. A bit hard to build, but at this point in the game, it's probably not too hard to grab some random pole spot with some deer and go for it. A

Sydney Opera House Music is the worst kind of Great Work and this wonder is expensive. Just build some broadcast centers if you want to hold some that badly. F


It's a decent wonder though I wouldn't say the best. . It has solid use in strategies but it requires your cities to also get districts up quickly while building wonders so it may not be the best idea in some starts that lack production or growth. If you can ignore growth like Germany, it's pretty good and also if you have faith generation.
 
The AI usually builds the Oracle before I even get around to attempting it, so I don't bother with it. Many people find it useful for boosting great people points, but I tend to focus on other things early in the game. I tend to focus on getting the 1st or 2nd religion, as I value the pantheon and religious beliefs as more important.

In an ideal game, I would get Fertility rites (faster growth rate), worth ethic (extra production) and meeting house (extra production), but that requires getting the 1st religion, negating any attempt at the Oracle. I don't really go the religious victory route, I just want the religious benefits for production and growth, which requires focusing on religion early in the game, and then building an army of Apostles to keep the AI from converting my cities.

For wonders, I always try and get the Coliseum as my first wonder (if I don't get Stonehedge for religion) and after that, I try and get other useful wonders like Ruhr Valley, Eiffel Tower, Mount St. Michel, etc. It all depends on what the AI manages to get in terms of wonders.

In my current game as Australia, my capital city (Canberra) has the Coliseum, Ruhr Valley and the Eifel Tower for wonders, while one of my other cities (Hobart) has Bolshoi Theatre, Mount St. Michel, Hagia Sophia and St. Basils Cathedral.
 
One reason I like it is because (at least in the game's I've played) the AI tends to not go for it very hard (ditto for the Pyramids).
 
Sydney Opera House Music is the worst kind of Great Work and this wonder is expensive. Just build some broadcast centers if you want to hold some that badly. F[/spoiler]

.

Thank you for your very detailed answer. Do you mind explaining a little bit more why you think music is the worst kind of great work?
 
I'm not sure about the Oracle, effectively it give an extra low level distict (district + first building) Worth of great people or with Pingala it become a fully developed district. At 290 production it is pricy for its time and you have to ask if the Oracle is a better investment than for example additional settlers, which can potentially produce equal or more great people while also produce actual resources.

Oracle reduce great people faith purchasing cost by -25% which do scale better than its great people Points, however that require you to spend faith to get great people.

Stuff like Hermitage while being much more expensive come at a time which mean their opportunity cost is very low compared to early wonders like the Oracle. I think in general people will overvalue early wonders (cheap and often powerful effects) and underestimate late game wonders (expensive and often not as powerful effects) simply because the opportunity cost is not taken account for.
 
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The Oracle also provides the Inspiration for Drama and Poetry, if no place for Pyramids, as well as early major adjacency for TSs. It only requires a few Magnus chops, so it never slows me down. +1 culture at T50-55 is nice too, since my empire isn't exactly booming at this point.
 
The Oracle also provides the Inspiration for Drama and Poetry, if no place for Pyramids, as well as early major adjacency for TSs. It only requires a few Magnus chops, so it never slows me down. +1 culture at T50-55 is nice too, since my empire isn't exactly booming at this point.
You can Magnus chop out settlers or something else so Magnus don't suddenly make the Oracle cheap or free from opportunity cost. Insperation and Theatre Square adjency is nice but this can be achieved by any early wonder and also to make most use of Oracle you need both good amount of faith to purchase great people as well as Pingala with several promotions.

1 Culture is still just half a monument or about 3 population, nothing to really brag about. Hanging garden can use its 3 housing and Pingala to give 4.5 science and 3.9 Culture from the Citizens the housing supports and temple of Artemis have even more housing
 
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