Os-Gabella: Misunderstood? or pure evil?

[Darksaber1]

I never thought about it like that. However, I still think she is insane, regardless of her resoning.

 

[thomas.berubeg]

I don't agree with you darksaber. She operates on a complete other plane from humanity. to her, we are ephemereal, about to die anyway... what does a few days difference make? if by killing some poeple, she can get closer to ending creation, that's les time those people will have to suffer in hell.

Though i'm not sure if she really cares about them suffering in hell...

 

[El_Duderino]

well i think if Alexis and Flauros would just send her a mothers day card she might actually be some what friendly, how better to reconect with your long lost children then by threatening to end all of existence
but on a side note i wonder what she thinks of epona, they both live forever but epona dosent remember all her other lives

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

About the post saying that an immortal cannot be physically restrained of their free will when under extreme duress, actually, the only way you can be free from physical restaints is if you are omnipotent. Only The One is, not even the Angels, even though they do not die of age. An immortal only means one that does not die of age, it doesn't mean you don't simply break down when subjected to enough duress. I'm sure Os-gabella can jump off a cliff and kill herself, unlike the story that the starter of the thread wrote. But she wants her soul to end.

Actually, the definition of evil might be a little different in Erebus. Agares wants to be The One himself, with a different vision of how Temporance should be, and will fight towards that end. Os-gabella just feels that creation is causing pointless suffering to herself, to the followers of the Angels, to the mortals that are unwilling to serve the Angels, and even to the Angels themselves. She is, I believe, deeply mis-understood. What needs to be done to stop her is to convince her that there is hope that creation can be a better place. But then, the Angel of Hope fell, so meh, the only way to deal with her is to kill her with some ridiculous arcane powers (if she were a unit on the map, she would have some crazy abilities). Yeah, back to killing the villian.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

About the post saying that an immortal cannot be physically restrained of their free will when under extreme duress, actually, the only way you can be free from physical restaints is if you are omnipotent. Only The One is, not even the Angels, even though they do not die of age. An immortal only means one that does not die of age, it doesn't mean you don't simply break down when subjected to enough duress. I'm sure Os-gabella can jump off a cliff and kill herself, unlike the story that the starter of the thread wrote. But she wants her soul to end.

That is not correct. It is specifically stated that while only the soul of later generations of man is immortal, the original humans are truly immortal, physically and spiritually. Os-Gabella has been experimenting to find a way to kill herself for millennia. It has already been shown that a knife to the throat has no effect. I believe Kael has stated that her body could be ripped to shreds, but her immortal nature would cause the pieces to gather themselves together again to form an uninjured whole.

The angels too are supposed to be truly immortal, but by agreeing to the compact they created a way for them to be killed. This power beyond that of any individual comes from the combined force of an agreement between all the gods. It is not clear that the Godslayer would work on anyone who did not personally agree to the Compact though, so it probably wouldn't help Os-Gabella. It is also unclear as to how Mulcarn manages to kill Sucellus. Perhaps an Immortals body parts would naturally be drawn back together but can be forcefully held apart?

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

MagistarCultuum: Did Kael say that? Because story-wise that would be kind of hard to justify. Why would any Angel create such powerful beings, and for what purpose? Shouldn't it obvious that they may be... erm... issues... with this idea?

If that's the case, I have a side question: could you truly kill Bambur, one of the immortal dwarves?

 

[Tyrs]

I wonder...If all the angels agreed to end Os-Gabella's life, along with her obvious consent, would that work? If they can agree for a way for themselves to be killed in the Compact, couldn't they just mercy kill her?

 

[Morni]

I wonder...If all the angels agreed to end Os-Gabella's life, along with her obvious consent, would that work? If they can agree for a way for themselves to be killed in the Compact, couldn't they just mercy kill her?

I don't think she's on best terms with the gods.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

MagistarCultuum: Did Kael say that? Because story-wise that would be kind of hard to justify. Why would any Angel create such powerful beings, and for what purpose? Shouldn't it obvious that they may be... erm... issues... with this idea?

Yes, Kael did say that. I think that Man was supposed to be the children of the Gods, and so was supposed to inherit their strength and immortality.

If that's the case, I have a side question: could you truly kill Bambur, one of the immortal dwarves?

I don't know. In the game you certainly can. (I've played around with making the unit immortal, but that seems overpowered for such an early hero. I might decide he should be immortal, but move him to a much later tech.)

Kael hasn't even revealed to us whether Dwarves even have souls, or if they are basically intelligent biological golems. Humans only have the Divine Spark (soul, which also gives us the power to channel magic) because we are descended from Nemed. (This also begs the question of whether Os-Gabella has a soul and how she can use magic.) I'm inclined to think that the Dwarven creation story is just a myth, and the Dwarves are just humans who (like the Elves and Aifons) were changed by exposure to their god(dess). In that case, Bambur and the other original Dwarves would probably have been one of humans from the first couple generations, who were not actually immortal but were incredibly long lived.

I wonder...If all the angels agreed to end Os-Gabella's life, along with her obvious consent, would that work? If they can agree for a way for themselves to be killed in the Compact, couldn't they just mercy kill her?

Maybe. I don't know.

I don't think she's on best terms with the gods.

Well, she certainly isn't on good terms with most of the gods. I think Ceridwen likes her though, and Agares may identify with her too. A lot of the good gods might agree just to get rid of her, but I don't think that getting everyone together to make such an agreement would be easy. Probably the only way that would happen would be if another Godswar broke out and then another Compact was reached to end it.


There is also the view that she may think that creation itself i just as tired of existing as she is, and so would not want to selfishly kill herself unless she can euthanize creation at the same time. I'm not sure how canonical this view is though.

 

[Darksaber1]

Wll, I'm not sure that Agares would be on good turms with her, since Os-Gabella wants to end the world, while Agares want's to take over all creation. I can see Agares trying to use Os-Gabella to weakon the forces against him in creation, but he would have to have some whay to restain her from destroying creation, otherwiss he loses, and all that effort is put to wast. Is in it?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Wll, I'm not sure that Agares would be on good turms with her, since Os-Gabella wants to end the world, while Agares want's to take over all creation.

Wrong. Agares is now the God of Despair, not Hope. He long ago abandoned the hope of ruling creation or supplanting The One. He knows that he cannot win, and so wants everyone else to lose with him. He even chose to destroy everything in his own vault rather than merely rule over it. He is bitter about his own imperfections, and so wants everyone and everything the One ever made to likewise fall, so that he can take solace in blaming The One for all his failings. Misery loves company...

 

[Darksaber1]

Oh, then ingore my last post. I thought he still wanted to run creation. Was it always the way (in the game) or was it a retcon I missed?

 

[Milosrdenstvi]

Bambur immortal is actually pretty cool-sounding. After all, he isn't a very strong hero -- none of the RoK heros are, save the golem.

 

[BCalchet]

There is also the view that she may think that creation itself i just as tired of existing as she is, and so would not want to selfishly kill herself unless she can euthanize creation at the same time. I'm not sure how canonical this view is though.

I imagine I'm the one responsible for that, and as far as I know, I made it up all on my own.

Since I don't believe in evil, my Os-Gabella isn't that, though I do see most people misunderstanding her.

She has lived for a long time. She has tried caring about the world, working to make it a better place - but in the end, she is just one woman, and she has no special abilities apart from immortality. As things stand currently, she cares about those she chooses to care about - mainly her family, an unspecified amount of adopted daughters. While she does use them as palace staff, officials, agents and such as they grow up, she wishes them no harm - she truly loves them, and would prefer if they could live out their lives happily and peacefully.

Apart from her children, she cares about her nation, those who have chosen to follow her - were she to make a speech, she might call them, too, her daughters - the men are there, and they do serve a function, but they're unimportant on the grand scale of things.

Looking outside the borders, she still holds a soft spot for Alexis - she does not agree with the way she lives, and she would make war upon her nation if needed, but were Alexis to ask, she would gladly allow her into her home and heart once again.

And finally, though she'd never admit it even to herself, she has grown somewhat fond of Flauros, too - she could, for example, never bring herself to kill him given the chance.

(I'll just leave this spoilered story here - this topic made me write it! It probably clashes with the real story, too.)

Spoiler :

A few more hours, and she would have made it. They wouldn't have dared once the morning crowds arrive.
She knows she shouldn't have gone out - how many time has she heard other children whisper of girls who
never came back, disappearing without a trace in the night? She is eight years old, and she knows what will happen.

There is no way to escape - her back is against a wall, and they alley mouth is far away. There are three of them,
huge and bearded, and one is holding the largest knife she's ever seen.
"Com'ere, girl. We won't hurt ya, so long as ye keep quiet."
"The street aint no place for chil'ren, aye?"

They are going to tie her up, carry her off, and sell her. This is what big sis said happened if you weren't careful.
Her small hand behind her back still clutches a half-eaten apple, her only prize this night. Not worth it...
"Oy, jes grab'er already!"
"Shaddap! Them li'l ones bite, they do."
"Scared of a girl, are ye? I'll do it meself, then."

One is approaching... she trembles, ready to dart off to the side... but no, the other two are too close. She can't get away.
Then, a glimmer of hope - one of the men half-turns at a noise from behind-
"Hert? What's wrong? "
A fourth one, guarding the alley entrance, then. Even if she gets past these, there's no way...
...but no, wait, that's something else. A wet crunch, and behind the approaching man - now stopped and turned -
she can just make out a silhouette standing over a man on the ground.

The approaching person does not speak, but instead comes closer. One of her assailants raises his voice-
"O-oy! She killed Hert! Get'er!"
They move quickly - more knives join the one already drawn, and they spread out, approaching the hooded stranger
- then all at once, they--- fall!?
She can't look away from the scene - the stranger, and the three men sprawled on the alley floor, struggling to rise.
A booted heel comes down once, twice, three times, and the men struggle no longer.

The hood is drawn back, and a pale, black-haired woman with deep, sad eyes walks up to her, and goes down on a knee,
speaking in a voice softer and more... refined? than any of the women she has met. The hair, and the skin, too, reminds her
of the nobles you can spot from time to time within carriages, but even more so - if there really was such a thing as a queen,
she thinks, this is what she would look like.

"There, do not worry. You are safe now."
A smile, an outstretched hand, then continued.
"Nobody shall hurt you, now - we shall go somewhere safe."
The way she speaks is strange. But... no, no time to think about that. She must hurry!




The woman who still, after all these years, bears the name Gabella rises again, looking in confusion at the half-eaten apple in her hand.
"Wait... what?"
No answer. The little girl is already at the mouth of the alley, running as fast as she can across the corpses.
She mumbled something word, to be certain, but what could it have been? This has never happened before.
"Interesting."
The apple finds a resting place within a pocket, and Gabella moves quickly but quietly in pursuit - no need to scare her even more, after all.
Down the almost-empty street, around a corner, then into another alley - narrower, and with a suspicious smell hanging over it... ah, the building
on one side is a tannery, that explains it. The girl disappears into a hole in the wall at the far end of the alley, and the remains of a blanket falls
back down to cover it.
Gabella slowly walks up to the hole - no, the doorway, it appears, and knocks lightly on the wall next to it and waits a moment before pulling the
covering aside and peering inside.

A small room - no, more a hole than a room. The girl, trembling in a corner, and in her arms, a boy - probably no older than five, still half asleep.
Unexpected... Very unexpected. But, after all, why not? She brings a smile to her lips - it may be somewhat forced, but nobody could tell.
"Hello. My name is Gabella, what is your name?"
A whole range of emotions play across the girl's face, settling finally on stubborn defiance.
"Dun' hurt m' brother."
"It is good, that you take care of him. But do not worry, I am not going to hurt either of you."
They look at each other for a while, then - the smile does not falter. It is a friendly smile, and perhaps a motherly one.
Finally, the girl relents.
"Al'sis.", she says, clutching her - now awake and starting to struggle - brother closer. "I'm Al'sis."
"That is a fine name. Say, would you-" slight hesitation "-and your brother like to live in a big house?"
The girl does not know how to answer - most do not, after all. From here on, Gabella knows how it will play out...
But perhaps this time - she glances at the boy, now being calmed by his sister, as she supresses certain emotions that keep trying to bubble to the surface - it will be a bit more interesting?

 

[thomas.berubeg]

That's great, BCalchet! I love it...

You (and your stories) are really the reason i started this thread... made me think more of Os-Gabella besides "crazy woman who wants to destroy the world"

 

[Marksman77]

Three good stories in one thread, that's something!
For me Os-Gabella is evil. Even if you can at least partly understand her personal reasons why she wants to end creation, you cannot justify her intention to bring the end upon all beings that not necessarily share her vision.

 

[El_Duderino]

out of curiosity was it ever explained in the lore why alexis and flauros left os gabella?

 

[MacGyverInSpace]

She wantrs to break the whole cycle. She doesn't want to kill everyone in the normal anti-life kind of mentality, she wants to end creation itself. She believes that the experiment has failed and the only thing to do now is to end it.

So she's Erebuses' Yeltsin to its Grigorbachev?

What is the nature of her immortality? Is it very literal or like Epona and Kylorins? Also....does that pair somehow secretly equal Os-Gabella and Tebyn....no. I remember it doesn't. Anyway, their should be a world ritual to kill Os-Gabella or something. . .

And for those who say she is evil, I think if she's doing wrong she is only ill informed. She think's she's saving everyone a lot of trouble. This thread reminds me of Hitchiker's in a way. . .

 

[A_Hamster]

Os-Gabella is an example of what would happen if a whiny, angsty teenager got power. Her desire to destroy creation is similar to the typical teenager's whine of, "I don't ask to be born!" when confronted with the less pleasant facts of life (such as the world does not revolve around you.) Os-Gabella's suicide attempts fit the pattern of some troubled youth. If she confined herself to that, then she would be a misunderstood and sympathetic character in my eyes, but her decision to destroy Creation and everything in it makes her evil and hypocritical.
If it was wrong for the gods to create her solely for the purpose of being a wife and helpmeet to Nemed then it is equally wrong for her to make a similar decision regarding the fates of others. "I can exercise free will, but all others must bow to MY judgement!"

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I figure they just got tired of being treated like children and left. Most children leave their parents at some point. They also seem to want to live and rule forever, and so wouldn't want to help her destroy Creation.





Os-Gabella is a true Immortal. Kyorlin merely never ages but can be killed. Eve/Epona's soul is reincarnated to begin life an an infant whenever she dies. Os-Gabella cannot die at all. Her body will instantly heal from any injury, even those that would e fatal to anyone else (except Nemed). She could be ripped to shreds, but all the fragments will be drawn back together by an insuperable force and will reassemble themselves perfectly. I don't think this stops it from causing great pain though, so I doubt she does it often. Nemed might be torn to shreds on a regular basis though, as a test to see if various attempts to make him mortal have worked.