Over the Reich - Creation Thread

[Civinator]

JPetroski, it´s great, that your work on that ambitious project is continuing.

I think the best way to do it will be to have it only be fuel for attack runs meaning every time you hit 'k' to shoot ammo, you'll lose money/fuel. It is a bit abstract but actually probably preferable to my original method because it won't take nearly as much planning or forethought on the players behalf - just a quick look at their treasury to see if they can afford to attack with a particular unit or not.

This is not so bad. Ammunition is expensive, too. A term, that covers ammunition and fuel could be supply.

 

[JPetroski]

JPetroski, it´s great, that your work on that ambitious project is continuing.

Thanks Civinator. I almost feel like I have to finish this for YOU because you've been here cheering me on for years and years and years for this one at this point

This is not so bad. Ammunition is expensive, too. A term, that covers ammunition and fuel could be supply.

I think it will work OK. It's probably better honestly. Earlier feedback suggests I need to reign in the creativity once in awhile to make things playable and I think it will be much easier to just lose funds each time you go on an attack run. Your idea for "Supply" is a good one.

Right now initial testing of all the units went well so I'm just slowly putting things together. I'm hoping that by the end of this weekend I'll have all the k units completed in lua and possibly (depending on if I screw it up and if so if any help is around) get the industry events working too.

One more thing that I'm considering here (because it is possible with lua) is a VERY labor intensive job on my part that I think would be incredibly cool for the player... I could actually have the clouds change frequently. If I want to go to the trouble of building some huge tables in lua with many, many different coordinates and what they should be (clouds vs. whatever they're supposed to be underneath) then I could have this change every few turns. This could really affect operations because I have elected that for this scenario, air units will have terrain bonuses. While this means that everything on the lower map must be the same (so no terrain bonus for mountains which would be unrealistic), aircraft can dart into clouds to have less chance of being shot down. Likewise, however, TARGETS could be temporarily covered by heavy cloud cover which would make them more difficult to shoot down. I might have a weather event change every 4-6 turns which might necessitate the allies needing to change targets en route if it turns out that there is heavy cloud cover over their first choice.

This would be a giant PITA for the designer but I think it would be a lot of fun for the player so I'm considering it. Much about lua is actually a PITA for the designer. Not because it is harder so much as because you can do so much more with it that you try to do that.

 

[Civinator]

Thanks Civinator. I almost feel like I have to finish this for YOU because you've been here cheering me on for years and years and years for this one at this point

I do this, because creating this mod is really very ambitious and difficult. To create this scenario even for human vs. AI play in my eyes would be the highest level of modding difficulty in Civ 2.

 

[JPetroski]

I've been making good progress with lua and have the primary and secondary attack buttons working (k and v). Here is a short video of how I plan to implement ranged attacks in air combat and why I feel this will revolutionize this scenario as well as the way we look at air combat in civ2 scenarios in general (especially multiplayer ones). Enjoy!

 

[JPetroski]

I've finished collecting data coordinates for the German cities and have broken ground. It's a bit slow going because every city has certain units that must be placed on specific terrain and must be tied go a particular improvement, so there's really no way to do it besides building up the cities completely as I go.

While doing this I realized that capitalization is not going to work well in this scenario. I do want an AI "utility/events" civ, however. Can they handle having no improvements to build, or will the game crash?

 

[McMonkey]

Love the video John. These new techniques will probably improve air combat/strategic bombing to a greater degree than the land units you've already successfully tested with Gallic Wars. When I get the time do you think it would be OK to add the videos you have created to the SL You Tube channel to get it going? I guess this might involve you sending me the video files so I can upload them again & add some commentary unless I can find another way to link to the videos you've already uploaded. We can discuss what works best for you.

 

[JPetroski]

Of course! Just let me know when (I might re shoot this one now that the terrain is complete and the strategic bombing mechanism is almost working).

 

[Patine]

I've finished collecting data coordinates for the German cities and have broken ground. It's a bit slow going because every city has certain units that must be placed on specific terrain and must be tied go a particular improvement, so there's really no way to do it besides building up the cities completely as I go.

While doing this I realized that capitalization is not going to work well in this scenario. I do want an AI "utility/events" civ, however. Can they handle having no improvements to build, or will the game crash?

If a civilization is unable to build ANYTHING in ANY given city on ANY given turn, the game does indeed crash.

 

[Knighttime]

You could let them build Capitalization, though, and then have a Lua event reset/reduce the money for that tribe. Or you could only let them build a single unit, and then have a Lua event delete that unit the moment it's created, before they can even move it.

 

[JPetroski]

The only reason they exist is so that I can have an Allied freighter unit attack one of their dock units and spawn some GIs in England. An easier option would just be to have the freighters be another disbandable (@McMonkey unfortunately we will not totally escape the need to move industrial units around but I assure you it will take 2-3 minutes--if that-- vs. 20-30 this time around!!!!)

 

[Prof. Garfield]

The only reason they exist is so that I can have an Allied freighter unit attack one of their dock units and spawn some GIs in England.

Why not do a key press trigger to check if the freighter is in an English port, and, if so, remove it and create the GI units? Or, do an on-activation trigger to check if the freighter is in an English port? In the latter case, you would have to select another unit, then re-select the freighter. Maybe pressing v twice would work.

 

[JPetroski]

Love the video John. These new techniques will probably improve air combat/strategic bombing to a greater degree than the land units you've already successfully tested with Gallic Wars.

I took a little break from placing cities for a short while tonight (there's only so much one can stand of that at a time) to think this through some more and I think air combat is going to completely change here.

I'm not sure how you felt about the air combat in the past versions but for me it basically came down to: I sent a lot of aircraft over a target, you shot a bunch down, I shot down almost all your interceptors, you shot down almost all my escorts. Kind of boring to be honest!

With lua, I think there will be much more strategy surrounding how we position our forces. There really is a benefit to having escorts rendezvous with the bombers at different times rather than simply follow them the whole way. There will be a real advantage to having some escorts detached and searching for the Luftwaffe, or for plain old fighter sweeps aimed at catching bomber destroyers on assembly (the destroyers move fewer spaces over many turns so the German player needs to think a few steps ahead about how to get them where they need them). Aircraft like the P-51 will truly shine now. Before it simply had more range which was nice, but it still could only attack once. Now, more range means that it doesn't just go further into Germany, but can roam about and attack the Luftwaffe where it finds it, just as in the real war. It should be a game changer for the Allies and have significant effect on German strategy. The Germans may well need to carefully choose which airbases they use.

Medium bombers will matter much more too (they used to be fairly worthless) because they'll actually be able to move and attack to some extent whereas the heavies slowly plod along.

I'm also hoping that the 'k' units means that it is less likely that everything either player sends up is destroyed every time - aircraft should limp home and targets won't necessarily be destroyed. This in turn will hopefully prevent hundreds of aircraft in the skies (to move) each turn. You didn't get to experience that drag of things but it wasn't much more fun than the housekeeping issues you had to handle. I'd envision a very large raid having between 20-30 units comprised of bombers and escorts - it used to take that just to get a small raid through.

Why not do a key press trigger to check if the freighter is in an English port, and, if so, remove it and create the GI units? Or, do an on-activation trigger to check if the freighter is in an English port? In the latter case, you would have to select another unit, then re-select the freighter. Maybe pressing v twice would work.

That's an awesome idea right there. I will do this. Thanks!

 

[JPetroski]

Special thanks to @Knighttime and @Prof. Garfield for their help getting the strategic bombing mechanism to work!

You can find a detailed explanation in this thread: Strategic Bombing in Civilization II - Finally Solved!!!

This explanation also discusses how Germany can rebuild her cities (the video focuses on how the Allies can destroy them).

It's a great day for Civ2!!!!

 

[Prof. Garfield]

One more thing that I'm considering here (because it is possible with lua) is a VERY labor intensive job on my part that I think would be incredibly cool for the player... I could actually have the clouds change frequently. If I want to go to the trouble of building some huge tables in lua with many, many different coordinates and what they should be (clouds vs. whatever they're supposed to be underneath) then I could have this change every few turns. This could really affect operations because I have elected that for this scenario, air units will have terrain bonuses. While this means that everything on the lower map must be the same (so no terrain bonus for mountains which would be unrealistic), aircraft can dart into clouds to have less chance of being shot down. Likewise, however, TARGETS could be temporarily covered by heavy cloud cover which would make them more difficult to shoot down. I might have a weather event change every 4-6 turns which might necessitate the allies needing to change targets en route if it turns out that there is heavy cloud cover over their first choice.

If you can do without fortresses on the ground, you could make them your "clouds" instead of changing the terrain.

Then use civ.scen.onResolveCombat to change how combat is resolved when the defender is on fortress terrain.

This method means you don't have to keep track of what the terrain under clouds is supposed to be.

Keeping that information could be done, too. ToTPP has the functionality to write extra information at the end of the save file (it is how the just once function is implemented). If the fortress idea is unappealing, we can work on this. It would take some effort, but I don't think you'd have to write out a giant table by hand or anything like that.

 

[JPetroski]

There has been tremendous progress, thanks in no small part to the infinite patience and considerable assistance of Knighttime and Prof. Garfield!

COMPLETE AS OF 8/6/18:

-The map is finalized, which was no small feat considering I'm using so much terrain for special reasons, meaning that I had to use irrigation, mining, and farmland to liven up the place and avoid a non-stop expanse of grassland (try placing that on three matching maps! Fun, fun!)
-All cities are in place
-All units are in place
-The ammo/fuel event is working
-The build restrictions event is working
-The strategic bombing event sequence is working and all cities/improvements ready to roll!!!
-Terrain, icon, and improvement art is done
-Unit art is 96% done
-Title art is done


TO DO:

EVENTS
1. Deletion of air units that are on city squares at start of turn
2. D-Day gives Operation Neptune tech
3. D-Day counter (if city recaptured within 10 turns later, you lose)
4. State flags for destruction of ports for Germans/presence of same for Allies
5. Creation of airfield terrain under any newly founded city

UNITS
1. A wurzburg radar set (looks like a dome)
2. A freya/chain home radar set - something that could function for both (looks more like a tower)
3. Two distinct types of radar wave units (could just be different colors--just something that conveys what it is better
4. A V1 launch site
5. A V2 launch site

OTHER ART:
1. Large pictures for the improvements. I've only made 14 out of 39 improvements/wonders used in the scenario

TEXT FILES
1. Game text
2. Labels
3. I'm strongly considering a civilopedia that captures how much fuel ($$$) it takes for each unit to attack and how many times they can attack. It either has to go here or (and?) the readme
4. Readme
5. Cities.txt as new cities are encouraged

So, we aren't that far away from an alpha test at which point I'll likely need to tweak unit stats somewhat.

Third time's the charm....

 

[JPetroski]

Thanks to the exceptionally, incredibly, amazingly helpful assistance, counsel, and flat out work by @Prof. Garfield , @Knighttime , and @Grishnach , the events for this scenario are complete, functional, groundbreaking, and user-friendly.

I intend to spend as much time as possible this weekend tidying up the other things and then will move to alpha testing and with the goal of a playtest soon.

Thanks everyone! "Many hands!"

 

[CurtSibling]

Very great work here, guys...Exciting strides being made for CIV2.

 

[JPetroski]

Thanks, Curt! This Lua thing is pretty nifty! I think once this and @tootall_2012 's Napoleon are released, there should be a large enough sample size for other designers to start copying and pasting the code and incorporating it into their own work. Maybe some day Overlords will see Lua? (Multiplayer is a pretty good place to start as they tend to have less events).

As to Over the Reich, Alpha testing is going well and uncovered an unexpected (but useful) side effect:

Units with 0 attack cannot spot subs, at all. They just run into an invisible wall, but never determine what is beyond it, so to speak. As most nighttime aircraft have the "subs" flag this leads to a lot of bumbling about trying to find the bomber streams. Radar will be much more important in this version than last, because it has an attack of "1" (useless for damaging anything, but very important for seeing things). Without it, you'll be clawing in the dark. I'm playing myself -- I KNOW where the bombers ought to be, and it's still hard to find them.

The first radar waves have a pretty short range in this scenario. Only the Germans can develop better Wurzburg sets that have expanded range. To balance this, the Allies' 2nd night fighter model can "carry" radar with it (as a secondary attack), while the Germans have to wait for their third night fighter model to do this.

All of this makes the Bomber Command game much more interesting than it was in the last version-- a real cat and mouse affair until someone invests in a better radar system.

 

[techumseh]

@JPetroski If I may ask (out of curiosity - I'm not looking to stir up controversy), but that shield you and @techumseh attached to most of your German units with the WW1 Imperial colours in a diagonal slant - was that an actual WW2 German military crest or symbol, or is it to avoid certain - ahem, social issues - with those who are not long-standing SL members who take alternative symbols the wrong way (or live in countries where such symbols are legally banned)?

The shield in national colours (Third Reich as well as Imperial Germany) was used on some helmets. The stylized eagle with the swastika was more common however. So it is, IMHO, a perfectly legitimate symbol for those of us who want to minimize swastikas in our scenario art. The Balkenkreuz
(square arm cross) was utilized more generally, but in Seelowe I wanted to use something different for each branch of the armed forces, so I reserved it for Luftwaffe units.

 

[JPetroski]

Attached is the readme. I anticipate starting a playtest with @McMonkey soon. Anyone interested in following along would do well to read this so you can understand the mechanics. Also, the game is novel enough that I would like feedback on if this actually makes any sense and if you can follow it, or if I need to revise it.