Over the Reich Playtest - McMonkey v. JPetroski

[McMonkey]

The crews of Germany's Flak Batteries stand ready to repel any incursions by Allied Sky Bandits over the Reich!

I take it the AA crews were mainly Luftwaffe personnel?

I hope the zip format is Ok. Civ Fanatics don't accept .hot file uploads. I guess I could always rename the file .sav and you could then rename it .hot. Whatever is easiest!

 

[JPetroski]

First of all, did you play your Luftwaffe turn too? You need to play Germany and the Luftwaffe, then turn it over to me... (I can't check, I'm at work).

- On my first turn I got a lot of messages from the Civ Advisor saying Fuel Supplies exhausted in many of my Flak Batteries. When I zoomed to the cities they seemed to be Ok. There were also a couple of Population decrease messages. I don't know if the above are intended but it struck me as a bit of a rough edge that could be eliminated (like old scenarios where every city riots on turn 1 ) Not a biggie though!

This thing has been driving me bonkers. I do not know how to fix it and any advice would be appreciated (they really did exhaust and disband the cities until I gave them all granaries). I would just use civcity to give each city a few rows of food, but the program does not support multiple maps

I don't know if I could hex edit it out. I've managed to learn a thing or two about hex editing (or perhaps better read as: I've managed to follow some of Catfish & other's instructions on hex editing), but I'm not sure if I could pull this off, or if it would even be worth it.

At the very least, you only have to deal with it for one turn (make sure you get rid of those aqueduct/sewer messages from your city report options though)!

- When you go to the Defence Minister screen it says Holy Empire of the Germans. I guess you might want to change that.

There are going to be TONS of little "issues" like that for now. I've barely touched any text files besides rules and events...

- On the City Status screen the Flak 88 Batteries are showing the purple triangles and signatures. Recolouring them should eliminate that.

Not sure I follow you, so I'll have to check it out...

- On the city screens the icon for fuel on the maps if of wheat but in the box it is Jerry Cans. It may be best to keep them the same (I'm guessing you just haven't got round to that yet!).

Yep. Many graphics are the same deal as text files.

- What does the Heavy Flak improvement do? I could not find it listed in the Pedia and I couldn't be bothered to work it out in the rules file!

It is either aqueduct or sewer; I can't recall. It was supposed to help keep some cities looking the right way until I figured out that there'll be a problem with the science rate (see a few posts above).

- I noticed that it is not possible to scroll through the whole city list. This is because the 88mm Batteries and Light Flak Bat. only get displayed once when scrolling. If you go to the City Status list you can check each one individually. I guess if you wanted to allow scrolling you could have to give each battery a slightly different name (possibly a Roman numeral?).

Yes I've noticed this too, and you're probably right that it is the name causing the issue. I'm going to hold off on doing anything because I'm not sure if I'll even keep most of those cities (we will have to see if the light flak ones serve any purpose at all, and if their ammo wouldn't better be served as a radar wave).

At any rate, it was never really my intention for those cities to support scientists/tax men, but then the science rate issue. I'll have to figure out what I'm going to do to clean it up for release. As of now I don't think it's that big of a deal one way or another, because they aren't the major cities anyway.

- I went through all of my cities and where possible I removed the single trade arrow workers and made them into specialists (not telling if they were Taxmen or Scientists ) which gave me a much better output. Did you intend the player to be able to do this. Will it have a negative effect on the overall balance if they have more money or faster science? I found it hard to boost the tech rate up very much with this method so I guess my secret is out what specialists I went for

It is fine for you to mess around with the specialists. In fact, I advise you check out your attitude advisor frequently, because different actions by both of us will tend to change how many specialist slots are available quite abruptly.

- Is the TENO unit given via events?

No. They are buildable by the Luftwaffe ONLY. (This is because Germany can receive the tech "Railroad" to reduce the trade benefit of locomotives, but I didn't want the TENO's to build railroads).

- As City Walls cannot be constructed I guess you intend for Flak Batteries to be possible candidates for destruction, right?

Yes. That is a strategy available to the Allied player, if they feel it prudent to spend the resources on it.

 

[McMonkey]

The Jagdflieger Squadrons of the Luftwaffe eagerly anticipate the chance to add to their scores by downing any Allied aircraft foolish enough to encroach into German skies!

At this stage I'm still a bit hazy on the details of the High Level. I think I get things at the low level. Story of my life really

 

[McMonkey]

If this is a rough draft (IE icons and text barely touched) then its one of the slickest rough drafts I've ever seen in Civ2. The things I mentioned are really very minor and wouldn't be a massive problem even if they were not resolved in the final release though I'm sure they will be. Focusing on getting the gameplay and game mechanics working properly is absolutely the right way to go! I'm really excited about the prospect of spotting the first enemy bombers, perhaps a tiny bit nervous too

 

[JPetroski]

Thanks for your kind words

I figured I’d better give you a better idea about a few details that are very important!

Spoiler :

McMonkey Primer



THE MAPS

First of all, the map is divided into two parts: low level and high level. At low level, you will find cities, airfields, flak batteries, and essentially the entire logistics system of Germany (railways, locomotives, raw materials, etc.)

At high level, you will find roughly 45 “target” units (owned by Germany). They are divided into three main “types.” Cities, marshalling yards, and specialties (ball bearings, chemical plants, etc.).

If I attack a CITY target on the high map, then your industrial squares on the LOW map will turn into rubble.

If I attack a RAILROAD target on the high map, then the nearby railroads on the LOW map will be erased.

If I attack a “SPECIALTY” target on the high map, I will check off one flag needed to trigger D-Day (I think I need to hit 21 such targets).

If I trigger D-Day, I spawn ground forces to take your cities and win the scenario.

Thus, it is extremely important that you regularly patrol the high alt map, and shoot down my forces on it. When I go home, I will make you a target list to keep for reference so that you will know where these units are (the Luftwaffe player can’t see them – I need to change that for release).

THE GERMAN ECONOMY

Your Luftwaffe civ researches units and chooses which units to build. However, they are extremely expensive and your Luftwaffe civ doesn’t get much money (and not much chance to incremental rush build).

Your Germany civ researches production runs (north, south, east, west). When, for example, Production Run North is researched, a few trains (controlled by the LUFTWAFFE) will spawn near Hamburg. The Luftwaffe then moves them into their city, disbands them, and gets a new unit.

Your Germany civ can speed up production by researching faster, and you do that by delivering your locomotives (trade). These too are very expensive, so you have to move the “raw materials” unit into your cities and disband it for its shields.

All ground has a hefty move cost. If you move off the railroads, you will take forever to move supplies from point A to B. Therefore, you should note that keeping rail lines open is extremely important. Opening up new ones would also be very beneficial, once you see where the old ones are wiped out.

TENO BRIGADES

These are perhaps your most important unit. Only they can repair your roads, rebuild your industry, and extinguish firestorms (caused by British research that abstractly represents the RAF… Every 10-11 turns one of your cities goes up in flames).

HINT – NEVER leave these out in the open, waiting for something to happen. ALWAYS keep them in a Luftwaffe airfield until needed. They are vulnerable out in the open to USAAF straffing runs, and disappearing via terrain changes from events. You should endeavor to build a distribution chain of these near major choke points. A good rule of thumb is to have at least one (and preferably more) near the Ruhr, Hamburg, Berlin, and Munich, as these are around where your very important production runs will create units—you want to keep these lanes open!

(That's not to say that other lanes aren't important--especially Paris--but these are the big four that are critical to immediate resupply).

AIR FORCE ATTRITION

Your Luftwaffe starts considerably stronger (in fighters) than my USAAF. However, it takes you many turns to build a unit (really, you need the production runs to realistically build something) whereas it takes me roughly:

4 to build a bomber
6+ to build a fighter

However, I must cross unfriendly skies to get to my targets, and it takes on average 4-5 units to kill each target (vets can sometimes pull it off with 2, yet I start with no veteran bomber units--though all Spits are). Worth noting when I have strong escort and you have few fighters later in the game (if you’ve knocked me down to 1-2 bombers, you can usually get away with retiring)!

It’s also worth noting that every fighter of yours I kill is a small victory for me, while every one you lose is a large loss. Definitely make use of your anti-aircraft guns whenever possible to soften me up. Don’t be afraid to shoot them off into the air searching for likely targets (since you have no radar in this version). They replenish frequently. At any rate, I will have to disclose which targets I destroy, so you might at least be able to hit one bomber with them!

Anyway, I hope that is helpful for now!

 

[JPetroski]

Air Chief Marshall Arthur Harris can only shake his head as he listens to his American allies' grand plan: they essentially intend to repeat former British mistakes and attempt daylight precision bombing against strategic targets!

The British aren't so foolish, and quickly make preparations for an all-out nocturnal assault on Germany's cities.



Meanwhile, as the American heavy bomber groups get settled in and await reinforcements before testing German defenses, The USAAF's B-26 medium bombers are busy across the channel, heralding the Yanks' arrival.



B-26's strike (1) German army unit on the approach to Paris, (1) locomotive presumed to be carrying raw materials away from Paris, and destroy (1) light flak battery near Rouen. Though met with fierce ground fire, and suffering minor damage, all aircraft make it safely back to England (this is my single 1-turn unit. It has a total range of 50 squares, meaning that it shouldn't be too unbalancing, but we will see).

 

[JPetroski]

Here's the target list, as promised. When you're flying a patrol nearby, just fly close to spot it and it should stay visible for the duration. They will be visible by default to the German/Luftwaffe player at

release, but I forgot to do that.

I'm probably going to package the scenario with this target list in the readme. There's not much point not

to, considering that they will always be in the same spot, game to game. If people want to figure it out,

they will. Might as well make it easier for them

Spoiler :

TARGET LIST

Cities

Strikes against these destroy industrial squares near target.

Berlin - 298,50
Dortmund - 207,51
Hamburg - 249,35
Dresden - 300,78
Cologne - 201,63
Essen - 202,52
Dusseldorf - 200,58
Duisburg - 197,53
Bremen - 229,39
Hannover - 248,58
Munich - 271,99
Nurember - 268,80
Leipzig - 278,70
Kiel - 254,22
Lubeck - 264,32
Rostock - 286,28
Stuttgart - 215,85

Railroad Marshalling Yards (RR)

Strikes against these destroy surrounding railroads, often quite extensively

Dortmund - 210,48
Hamburg - 249,39
Berlin - 295,53
Nuremburg - 270,82
Frankfurt - 213,71
Paris - 125,77

"Specialty" Targets (BB, EP, AC, AG, CH, OIL, SUB)

Strikes against these have two purposes: (1) They count towards D-Day trigger threshold; (2) When all of

a certain (GROUP) are destroyed, a negative consequence occurs (wonders go obsolete, terrain changes, etc.

The (AG) and (OIL) combine for a particularly nasty side effect.

Schweinfurt (BB) - 261,71
Brandenburg (BB) - 289,49
Karlsruhe (BB) - 208,96
Paris (BB) - 124,84
Chemnitz (EP) - 292,76
Brunswick (EP) - 263,53
Kassel (EP) - 255,61
Gotha (AC) - 260,60
Regensburg (AC) - 276,88
Stettin (AC) - 311,37
Pilsen (AC) - 291,95
Brux (AG) - 297,85
Merseburg (AG) - 272,62
Magdeburg (AG) - 289,57
Mannheim (AG) - 211,79
Mainz (CH) - 203,71
Friedrichshaven (CH) - 259,103
Saarbrucken (CH) - 204,84
Bielefeld (OIL) - 212,42
Ruhland (OIL) - 295,69
Linz (OIL) - 306,118
Vienna (OIL) - 328,124
St. Nazaire (SUB) - 44,86
Bordeaux (SUB) - 59,119
Brest (SUB) - 12,70

 

[McMonkey]

Spotted a British Locomotive during a raid over Britain. I was weighing up whether it was worthwhile risking one of my Fighter Squadrons. Decided discretion was the better part of valour when I spotted some Spitfires on the horizon!

 

[JPetroski]

B-26 raids continue across the channel, but not without loss, as one is shot down in a strafing run against an enemy gun emplacement. Flying at low level, there was no chance to deploy parachutes. The crew has the dubious distinction of being the first U.S. casualties.

USAAF Casualties
1x B-26

German Casualties
3x Light Flak Batteries wiped out (Near Cherbourg, the Pas de Calais, and east of Paris).

 

[McMonkey]

Nothing to report

I think radar stations (in the same style as flak batteries) with a radio wave unit would be a good move. The unit could have a pretty good range (you should be able to be fairly accurate with this) and could fly out and back. Obviously it would have no combat ability.

 

[JPetroski]

I think you're probably right, but then again it's not like I've ventured anywhere for radar to see me yet, either.

If I change it, I might just give flak and radar the same looking city graphic, but then use farming and irrigation next to the city to denote what each one will auto-produce (irrigation could look like flak, farming like a radar tower). That should make things easier on the science rate issue, as other cities can then grow freely.

If you would like, I'd be happy to hex-edit the light flak for you to allow native transport, and change its icon and stats to a radar wave. Just let me know before one of my turns and I'll hex edit the save (this is a very simple fix, not a problem at all).

 

[JPetroski]

Another B-26 raid destroys another light flak battery in the Pas de Calais. The bombers return chewed up, much to the chagrin of the flight mechanics!

 

[McMonkey]

I think we should carry on with the current setup for this game and then you can asses if radar is needed.

Sorry for the delay. I forgot to say that I was going away of Friday to take part in a charity event. My team and I had to climb three of the biggest mountains in Wales, beginning with Snowdon at 4am! We then went on to Cader Idris (a real tough SOB!) and finally a stroll up Pen-y-Fan which is normally a doddle, but after the other two seemed like K2
We did the lot in just over 8 hours (not including driving between them). Needless to say the beer and burger at the end tasted like manor from heaven.

Will play my turn this morning.

 

[McMonkey]

I'm not sure if I like the idea of the range 1 medium bombers. Its quite frustrating to have no way of responding to these raids! But then I would say that

No news

 

[JPetroski]

No need to apologize! I too was gone for a long weekend. I was celebrating my anniversary up near Ticonderoga, NY (a pretty darned fitting place to be on July 4th weekend). It's an interesting crossroads of the history of several great nations (Fort Ticonderoga was once called, "The Gibraltar of the Americas"), and an amazing supplement to any trip to states centering on NYC (it is roughly 4 hours from NYC, but you would get two vastly distinct slices of American culture). A great time!

Man, mountain climbing for charity eh? Around here we think we're special if we sign up for a gingerly walk Nice work!

And back in 1943...



USAAF B-17 bombers strike the Paris Marshaling Yards in their debut raid! Two bombers are lost, but a lucky strike on the third wave blows the facilities to smithereens! This will not contribute towards the 21 attacks needed for D-Day, but it will severely hamper the German economy!*

A probing attack is also launched on the ball bearing factory near Paris, but without success.

Meanwhile, a pesky B-26 squadron destroys a flak battery near Normandy.

USAAF LOSSES
3x B-17 bombers

GERMAN LOSSES
1x Light Flak city
1x Paris Marshaling Yards

*I believe that by setting "# of Turns for settlers to make a change" to 0 for all categories, that you should be able to fix each thing each turn, but I made a mistake and forgot to give your TENO brigades alpine abilities. I have attached rules that correct this.

 

[McMonkey]

Three B-17 Squadrons virtually wiped out (actually in game!) by the Luftwaffe's mighty Butcher Birds.

 

[JPetroski]

B-17's return to finish the job at the ball bearing plant over Paris! Three squadrons are lost, but the ball bearing facility is destroyed! 1/21 requirements to invade the continent are fulfilled!

In other news, Spitfire squadrons clash with Fw190's over Paris, shooting down 2.

USAAF CASUALTIES
3x B-17

LUFTWAFFE CASUALTIES
2x Fw190A
1x Paris (BB)

 

[McMonkey]

Another argument for German Radar is that the Army goes before the Luftwaffe who have the ability to spot enemy high altitude raids. Unless I just fire off my 88mm flak randomly looking for bombers they have little chance of ever finding a target.

 

[McMonkey]

The air duels continue to rage over Paris. Two Spitfires and one B17 shot down.

 

[JPetroski]

I went ahead and hex-edited the save. It is definitely 100% going to be changed for the final release version, and you're right, your 88's are pretty much useless without it.

I gave it the ability to go to high alt, and to travel 15 spaces for now (this might not be completely accurate, but they are everywhere in this version so I think the shorter range is temporarily justified). Although it cannot attack, I left its hp/fp the same to give it some chance against B-26's.

I haven't changed the unit picture because I haven't been able to find something that looks like a "radar wave." I just made a little green > on my game, but didn't figure it was worth the upload (should take all of 30 seconds with any graphics program).

On to the Game...

A massive U.S.A.A.F. raid that has been brewing since turn one finally reaches its targets! The sub pens at Bordeaux, St. Nazaire, and Brest are destroyed! The cost, however, is enormous, as 5 B-17 squadrons and 7 B-24's are lost to enemy flak! Further, the raid is not out of hot water yet, as it is still well within range of enemy fighters!

The D-Day threshold has been reduced to 17 targets left. Unfortunately, all of these are well outside of escort range, and the majority are deep inside Germany.

In other news, two Fw190A squadrons are destroyed over Paris for the loss of one Spitfire squadron, and a B-26 squadron destroys a radar facility in NE France/Western Belgium.

USAAF Casualties
5x B-17
7x B-24
1x Spitfire

Luftwaffe Casualties
2x Fw190A
1x Brest (SUB)
1x St. Nazaire (SUB)
1x Bordeaux (SUB)
1x "Radar Facility" (I think 3 "waves" caused it to be destroyed, though I don't usually keep track of these).