Overbuffed Farms?

[BiteInTheMark]

I recently played a game, concentrating on using farms and growth and noticed..... there are so many buffs for farms. Really a lot of buffs that makes other improvements and also unique improvements completly useless.

You can stack:
Farm +1 Food
Improvement by Technology +1 Food
Cathedrals (Religion) +1 Production +1 Gold
Exploitation +1 Food +1 Production
Urbanization (Freedom) +2 Food
Adjacent to other Farms +1/+2/+3 Food
Harappan Reservoir (Indian UA) +1 Food

A lot of increase in yields for simple Farms, even overwhelming a lot of unique improvements. only the social policy of ideologies improve unique improvements too.
I think, thats a bit too strong, cause the AI isnt using this stacking advancement proper or even building special builldings on places, denying itself the food bonus for his farms.

As you can see, the bottom left Field is a simply Grassland Field with a River and is producing
12 Food, 4 Production, 2 Gold, 2 Science

 

[Gothic_Empire]

I'm all for the AI using more farms.

I like the stacking farm buffs, though. It makes for interesting decision making about where to build roads / villages / towns.

Also, it saves Inca from being RNG victims.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

Building Terrace Farms on hills that also have access to freshwater are now simply overwhelmed by Farm output. Cause all the Social benefits only targets farms (or mines and lumbermills etc. ) and not the Unique Improvements.

 

[tu_79]

Building Terrace Farms on hills that also have access to freshwater are now simply overwhelmed by Farm output. Cause all the Social benefits only targets farms (or mines and lumbermills etc. ) and not the Unique Improvements.

A couple of terraces worth 4 farms for adjacent farms. You are making the wrong assumption that you are going to work all tiles. Some excellent food tiles is all that it takes to work every specialist.

Also, happiness system makes it unwise to focus too much on food.

 

[Freaky Freddy]

I think it's fine. A lot of those bonuses are just tradeoffs, for example, instead of going imperialism to get exploitation you could have gone progress and gotten +3S, +2C on your villages instead. Different choices, different bonuses.

And food is nice but at higher pops it diminishes in value like in your case where you have tons of laborers just sitting there. I fell that at that point the only thing you're really getting out of them is the 4P 2G 2S.

Unless i'm missing something.

 

[Strigvir]

I recently played a game, concentrating on using farms and growth and noticed..... there are so many buffs for farms. Really a lot of buffs that makes other improvements and also unique improvements completly useless.

You can stack:
Farm +1 Food
Improvement by Technology +1 Food
Cathedrals (Religion) +1 Production +1 Gold
Exploitation +1 Food +1 Production
Urbanization (Freedom) +2 Food
Adjacent to other Farms +1/+2/+3 Food
Harappan Reservoir (Indian UA) +1 Food

A lot of increase in yields for simple Farms, even overwhelming a lot of unique improvements. only the social policy of ideologies improve unique improvements too.
I think, thats a bit too strong, cause the AI isnt using this stacking advancement proper or even building special builldings on places, denying itself the food bonus for his farms.

How is it "overwhelming UIs" when India doesn't have any? It's cool you can stack up to 10f farm, but if your religion doesn't have Cathedrals, you don't take take Imperialism, don't go Freedom and isn't India, then all left is +2f bonus on farm.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

I think it's fine. A lot of those bonuses are just tradeoffs, for example, instead of going imperialism to get exploitation you could have gone progress and gotten +3S, +2C on your villages instead. Different choices, different bonuses.

And food is nice but at higher pops it diminishes in value like in your case where you have tons of laborers just sitting there. I fell that at that point the only thing you're really getting out of them is the 4P 2G 2S.

Unless i'm missing something.

Villages are not really that good in my opinion, you really need railroads and a trade route passing it, to really get something. But the limitation by placement makes it impossible to place enough of them, not like farms.
And of course, none can reach such a high amount of population like india, to get so many laborers. Btw. It is 6P 2G 2S, i had mastery as second belief but it isnt shown.

Ok, Terrace Farms improving Farms and other Terrace Farms is new to me, looks like, someone noticed, they are underwhelming in comparisson to farms.

How is it "overwhelming UIs" when India doesn't have any? It's cool you can stack up to 10f farm, but if your religion doesn't have Cathedrals, you don't take take Imperialism, don't go Freedom and isn't India, then all left is +2f bonus on farm.

You dont understand, instead of a unique improvement you dont need, cause farms can handle it, you can chose a civilization with a unique building, giving more benefits.
Eki as example, gives only 3F + 3P + 1G + 1C. And can only improved by ideology social culture.

Polder also give more money but much less food. When i have reached the technology for polder, my gold problems are already gone, and polder have more restrictions then farms.

Encampments are also relativly weak in comparison to farms, due to their placement restrictions like villages.

I think UI should gain more increases in yiels by social policies.

 

[pandasnail]

Non EUI Version doesn't show City Happiness anywhere?? Really? Am I just not seeing it?

 

[BiteInTheMark]

Non EUI Version doesn't show City Happiness anywhere?? Really? Am I just not seeing it?

1 or 2 month ago it was shown, and i was also able to arrange my great works. But both is gone, after I installed the newest version.

 

[Strigvir]

You dont understand, instead of a unique improvement you dont need, cause farms can handle it, you can chose a civilization with a unique building, giving more benefits.

The are you talking about? Only India benefits from overbuffed farms, everyone else can just ignore them. Russia can easily get 10p mines, which is comparable to Manufactories yields, is it OP too?

 

[Theral]

The new production bonus from Cathedrals is perhaps pushing farms a bit far now. It makes the farm improvement just too well rounded if it can do food and still have decent production.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

The are you talking about? Only India benefits from overbuffed farms, everyone else can just ignore them. Russia can easily get 10p mines, which is comparable to Manufactories yields, is it OP too?

Yeah, the Happiness.
Its more about the unability to improve UI, while you can improve Farm/Mine to a point, same to GP Improvements.
Also... look at the banana plantage on the left side, it produce less food and only one more gold then the farms on the top right side.

 

[Enginseer]

"Congratulations, your farms have been pillaged." -Events

 

[tu_79]

"Congratulations, your farms have been pillaged." -Events

Nope. Not for me. Events disabled.

To me, the bad side of those big farm clusters is that you are only going to work a few of them because you don't really want to grow so fast. It hurts happiness.

 

[Stalker0]

The new production bonus from Cathedrals is perhaps pushing farms a bit far now. It makes the farm improvement just too well rounded if it can do food and still have decent production.

Well that is the point of cathedrals, they are intended to make farms one of the best things you can build.

Villages to me are still rock solid. Its not hard to at least get +1 g/p off them, and 5 gold (yes I said 5 because towards the late game GA is very common), 1 hammer, and the all important culture (still considered one of the strongest yields in the game) is great. Throw in another +2 science and culture if you go rationalism....villages are still great. And of course as the game goes on the yield balance changes. Early game is about food....as the game goes gold becomes more important and food much less so, and so the balance between farms and villages moves towards villages as the game progresses.

Mines are the one improvement I don't generally want to build, but I do when necessary.

 

[Stalker0]

To me, the bad side of those big farm clusters is that you are only going to work a few of them because you don't really want to grow so fast. It hurts happiness.

I've heard this remark a few times, but I have to ask the question. If your not getting your cities growing and working the tiles, than what is the point in having them? Sure you get an unhappiness penalty when you settle and grow a city, but at the same time you are taking a science and culture penalty for that city being in existence. If you don't start working to make use out of it (unless you settled just to get a key resource)....than you would be better off just not have settled the city in the first place.

 

[Aldebaran1997]

I actually attempted this strategy, and my civ's unhappiness was 152 with only 7 unoccupied cities when I won that game through diplo victory.
It's fun, but not that practical strategy.

 

[tu_79]

I've heard this remark a few times, but I have to ask the question. If your not getting your cities growing and working the tiles, than what is the point in having them? Sure you get an unhappiness penalty when you settle and grow a city, but at the same time you are taking a science and culture penalty for that city being in existence. If you don't start working to make use out of it (unless you settled just to get a key resource)....than you would be better off just not have settled the city in the first place.

At 10 happiness you have a global +10% to every city production, and iirc to other yields. At -10 happiness you have a global -10%. At -20 happiness you face rebels. You really want happiness more or less over 10.
Good food tiles are good because you don't need to work too many of them, so you can release some workers for specialists.

 

[Stalker0]

Completely agree that happiness is important...but instill think my point stands. If a city doesn't grow up to get the hammers it needs to build real infrastructure, or start producing yields to justify the science and culture loss, than theirs not a lot of reason to have that city

 

[Funak]

Most strategies completely neglect farms later on in the game, in favor of heavy food-tiles and specialists.

These changes are making farms a powerhouse in the mid-game and decent in the lategame, I don't really think it classifies as overpowered however.