Own8 5BC Defiant Standard Continents

[Own]

My SG's have a knack for either failing or dying; only two out of seven have finished, but I am determined to not let that happen to this one.

Civ: Random
Start: First one I get with a river and w/o jungle, marsh, or tundra.
Standard
Continents 60% water
Deity (or DG if this seems too hard)
AI is very aggressive
AI civ's are the most aggressive one's, IIRC from the editor Germany,
the Mongols, Zululand, Rome, China, Aztecs, and Japan.
Climate is cool and wet and 5 Billion.

Variant: Defiant means no alliances, ROPs, MPPs, or trade embargos. Any unit in our territory must be given a boot order every turn (regardless of our military). We must refuse demands. Normally in defiant, you can't capture enemy cities but we obviously can do that in this game because it's 5BC. 5BC is just a five city challenge but we can capture AI cities.

Roster:
Own
Open
Open
Open
Open

 

[Own]

Here is the Deity start as the Vikings, first one I came across.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/55802/Own8_4000BC_Deity.SAV

And just in case we want to try DG instead, here is a DG start as the Americans.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/55802/Own8_4000BC_DG.SAV

This will be tough, requiring everyone to participate in discussions. Do not sign up if you aren't ready for a very tough game.

Edit: I've played many test games on Deity, and it's definately winnable. It plays like an AW except only a few civs at a time and you can expand and build a little infra before battle, and you can get concessions for peace.

 

[Sashie VII]

lurker's comment: Taking my place in the Lurker's Gallery. Good Luck and Good Skill

Your target VC?

 

[Own]

I'll take any VC on this variant. It's very similar to Charis's Defiant Nationalists of China (in archive of legendary games btw), except it's continents, not pangaea to make it easier, and 5BC to make it harder.

 

[gmaharriet]

lurker's comment: Sits down next to Sashie in the Lurkers' Gallery.

Own, I always cringe at the difficulty levels and variants you pick, but they're fun to watch. Good luck!!!

 

[Tone]

I love your stories so this looks like the opportunity to finally participate in one.

At the risk of looking as if I've finally lost my marbles, I'd like to sign up please.

Edit: ps I'd really like to go for the Viking one if I'm in.

 

[Own]

Welcome, Tone! It's an honor to have such a great player join an SG of mine.

I would prefer the Vikings one as well, and the Deity difficulty level. Question is: Where should we move the worker and settler? I think the worker should go to the S BG, and if the terrain looks good, settle SW to get the whale and closer to the gems.

Btw, I would play the first 20 turns but I wanted to discuss our first moves and builds first, so I waited for someone to join.

On games like these, early war is inevitable. We should play it like an AW except with more time at the start. The AI will send warriors to explore our territory, and the variant requires us to boot them (which will almost certainly start a war, though sometimes they do leave). So I would build curragh, warrior, granary, worker, settler, archer, settler, archer, worker, archer, settler, settler.

Researching pottery first seems obvious, and it will take very little time because seafaring gives us an extra starting gold. Then BW to IW then to cats I assume. I'm glad we start with alpha and almost none of our enemies do (I handpicked them for aggression, but that may be an advantage because only rome starts with alpha) because we can trade that around very well. Maybe a curragh before a warrior for quicker contacts?

 

[Tone]

Welcome, Tone! It's an honor to have such a great player join an SG of mine.

Thanks for the complement but we'll see if I'm actually any good by my performance in this game. It certainly looks like a challenge!

I would prefer the Vikings one as well, and the Deity difficulty level. Question is: Where should we move the worker and settler? I think the worker should go to the S BG, and if the terrain looks good, settle SW to get the whale and closer to the gems.

I agree. We don't have options in any other direction as we'd lose the coast and/or the river. We should only move if we see a really good reason to though as we'd be losing a few river tiles within our capital radius.

I'll trust your advice on the build sequence, although if we get a food bonus we might want to get a second worker but we'll see soon enough. A curragh before the AI can get to us sounds fine to me.

This is going to be fun!

 

[Own]

Allright, I'll play twenty tonight, of course, I'll modify the build order based on the situation.

 

[Own]

Nevermind tonight, I'll just finish them now.

Pre - turn - move worker S. See some ugly mountains .
Move settler SW.
1. Found Trondheim, starts on curragh, worker mines. Research
Pott at max.
7. Worker finishes mine, starts road.
8. Trondheim curragh > warrior. Send curragh N, discovers some
nice land.
10. Move worker to gem mountain, discover cow and another river
in the distance .
11. I tried to turn the governer off, but when Trondheim growed it made
an entertainer. If it hadn't, it could have produced one more shield, which
would have built the warrior. Sigh. Raise lux to 10%, Pott in four.
12. Warrior > worker. We've got great land nearby.
15. Pott > writing on min. I will switch to bronze if we can't trade alpha for it.
Trondheim worker > curragh, planning to build a settler afterwards,
because it is food poor capital and there is a food rich city
spot near by, I will let that city build settlers.
20. Trondheim curragh > settler.

Still no contacts, sadly, even though we sent out 2 curraghs and a warrior. The possibility of trading alpha is going down.

Order of settling for me would be yellow, periwinkle, green.

Just a view of the world.

Tone, you can play the next turns if you want, or we could wait for someone else, doesn't matter.

Roster-
Own - played
Tone - up, maybe
Open
Open
Open
Open
Open

 

[SimpleMonkey]

lurker's comment: A cow! A cow! Love the beef.

Would love to be in on this one, but I'm going into Civ retirement. (The ex-wife is getting the desktop, while I'm keeping the laptop, which means internet is still there -- and thus lurking -- but no more gaming for the time being.)

 

[Tone]

I've got a very long day ahead of me and I probably won't get back home from work until about 10pm tonight so I'll wait for another day before playing. Hopefully we can tempt a few more players to join us in the meantime.

 

[Mumpulus]

Hi Own. I really shouldn't, because I have no time for this, but I'd like to join. RL is slowing down a bit in the weeks and months ahead, so it will probably be ok .

I really appreciated the way you reacted to my "comments" in Mump2. I promise I'll constrain myself here .

So, just to be clear on the 5BC part of the variant: we can build 5 cities ourselves, and then capture however many we like?

First thoughts: agree on yellow dot first. The others look fine too, but let's do some quick exploration before we get the settlers ready.

Edit:

I tried to turn the governer off, but when Trondheim growed it made an entertainer.

When growth coincides with cultural expansion, that's often/always a problem. I saw a post on all this just recently, by a very experienced player here, but I still doubted that his assessment was completely correct. Because the early turns are so important, I always increase lux just to be sure...

On research: let's continue the min run on writing anyway, then go full out on masonry and lit. In this one, I would like the GLib, and I estimate chances are excellent to build it in yellow dot.

 

[Own]

I really appreciated the way you reacted to my "comments" in Mump2. I promise I'll constrain myself here .

It's all good. Gmaharriet is very right about something she said, that a comment on a person's playing isn't a personal attack. One problem I've found on forums is that it's hard to convey one's demeanor in writing.

So, just to be clear on the 5BC part of the variant: we can build 5 cities ourselves, and then capture however many we like?

Yep, capture all AI cities you desire. I came across this combo of a variant after winning a solo 5CC Deity Large pangaea, by diplomatic victory. I felt bad though, because I had to kiss so much butt to prevent war when a steal failed (which meant giving gpt until the civs I would steal from were gracious). So I thought I want to try 5CC Deity defiant, but that's too hard. 5BC perfectly balances it.

 

[mr_2_you]

i've got 2 or 3 SGs under my belt now and haven't played deity level before. i'd like to play, if you'll have me.

 

[Own]

Hmm...

It's hard to imagine that someone who hasn't even played deity before could handle this challenge. Deity itself is very, very hard. But then, add in that we must refuse demands and boot enemies out of our territory. There will be very quick wars, and we can't enlist our friends to help us out (no alliances). Add on 5BC and that makes this game incredibly challenging.

I'm sorry, but I think that you are not qualified to play this. Just keep civving and improving, get a few deity wins under your belt and then join SG's like this.

 

[Mizar]

An interesting variant I didn't know, should be a lot of fun.
If I just had more time, I would join but RL...
Will follow with interest.

 

[Tone]

Ok, well I'm back home now but I'll resist the urge to play and I'll wait until tomorrow evening (unless I get up really early ).

One comment though; we're far too early with that settler build after the second worker!

Our shield output before we grow to size 3 is five turns @ 4spt followed by 6 turns @ 5spt. This means that we have the five turns @ 4spt to play with before using the 6*5spt.

Options:
1. 3rd curragh-wealth (one turn)-settler
2. 2nd warrior-wealth (2 turns)-settler
3. wealth (5 turns)-settler
4. 2nd and 3rd warriors with a settler after spending one turn @ size 3.

I like option 2 as we can cope with 2/3 units over the four we can support for free although option 4 also has some appeal as we can then go straight to a rax build. I'm assuming that our beef city will push out the settlers (maybe w/o a granary?). I don't see the need for a third curragh and 5 turns of wealth seems a little woosy for this type of game!

What do you think guys?

 

[Own]

You're right, that is inefficient (since you can always change it I didn't bother to calculate spt, fpt etc.).

I like either 2 or 4. There's lots of open land but not many inlets to explore. I have a slight preference for 4.

 

[Aabraxan]

lurker's comment: One more for the Lurker's Gallery, please.