Panet Busters that Ain't

[PPQ_Purple]

Yea, that is a good idea.
I might add it later when I work out all the details.

I will most likely have standard ICBMs allong with the Planet Busters.
And have planet busters cost 2 or 3 times as much as they do in normal Planetfall.

 

[RocknD]

Attached save is just 1 turn away from building supercollider.
UN res have never passed (I've always voted to 'Defy' anyway).
Have Helium-3. Have U-235.
What am I missing from this to not allow PBs?

Interestingly, this is also around the same time that Zack got Gaia's High Garden from the Barbs who got it from me, even though I wasn't at war with him.
Could all this be related?

 

[PPQ_Purple]

I can't load it.
It just crashes with a bug. Try loading an earlier save and using the world builder to give your self all the necessary materials and wonders.

 

[RocknD]

Man, I just decided to uninstall v12M and go to 13, so I erased all my saves and am starting fresh. I will pick up the new and improved PBs right now, though!

 

[PPQ_Purple]

What do you think about the idea of expanding the whole nuclear arsenal?
Also, I would love to see a field test of how the AI uses them and how they balance.

Becouse I made them work, but have not tested them in a real game under regular conditions yet.


Also, this modification has been made based on v12.
But it works 100% with v13.


Alright, I need a good idea for a tech that should enable ICBMs (normal ones).
For now they are linked to the same tech as planet busters but do not require helium 3 or the supercolider. (not released yet)

 

[Monaldinio]

Um, it's called a Tachyon Field, but it only provides 50% less damage from nukes. I.e. 50% x 0 (planet busting) is still 0. We need something that allows nukes to be intercepted before they hit.

I have implemented the Deflector-shield of the "The Next War" Mod (3 different kinds of upgrades)! And i have change the defencebonus of the Defens-Perimeter and the Tachyon-Field...because all of thise builidng have game mechanical fit together.

But i think, that the PB Burns the soil away and after that water covered that area, is disproportionately . Ok...its right that the area are devastated...but water instead of soil?!?!
PB removes improvement - oky!
PB generated fallout - oky!
PB remove soil - not okey! Because after a Nuklear WaR THERe IS NO ground TO SETTLE:::

 

[PPQ_Purple]

I have implemented the Deflector-shield of the "The Next War" Mod (3 different kinds of upgrades)! And i have change the defencebonus of the Defens-Perimeter and the Tachyon-Field...because all of thise builidng have game mechanical fit together.

I see you have some ideas there. And that you have made them work for you.
However, this is not a "Who made what modification" discussion.

I am planing to make this into an official mod-mod.

If you have any ideas to add to the mod-mod PM them to me and we can talk about letting you join the team.
But all traffic is to be PM only.

But i think, that the PB Burns the soil away and after that water covered that area, is disproportionately . Ok...its right that the area are devastated...but water instead of soil?!?!

The BP nukes everything leaving one massive crater. Rain than fills that crater in.

PB removes improvement - oky!
PB generated fallout - oky!
PB remove soil - not okey! Because after a Nuklear WaR THERe IS NO ground TO SETTLE:::

Sea colony pods.

And yes, I am planing on adding repercussions to using PB.
-1 planet value per each used to be exact.


Also, for the name I have an idea. Vote just yes or no.
Planetfall - Locust of Chiron

 

[GeoModder]

What have locusts to do with PB's?

How about:
Planetfall - Terraforming Busted

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Locusts are a scourge that eat at everything in their path.
And so do the planet busters.

But mostly it's just that the LOC was the first unit that staid in my mind from original SMAC.

I don't even remember what it did, only that it was the epitome of EVIL PLANET WANTS TO KILL YOU (tm).

But I am still not decided on the name.
However, I have a few ideas and want to know what you think of them (you have way more XP at making balanced mods than I do):
1. Planet Buster (full power)
- Cost 800 to 1500 (not decided yet) instead of the normal 500
- Tech Requirements: Orbital Engineering and Fusion Power
- Requires the Supercolider
- Destroys all tiles in a small circle
- Minus 1 or minus 0.5 planet value for each one you use (not decided if it should be -1 or -0.5 yet. Need advice.)

2. ICBM (standard nuke)
- Cost 500
- Tech Requirements: Orbital Engineering
- Standard Nuke

3. SDI like wonder (Anti nuke defense)
- Copy the cost from standard civ
- Tech Requirements: Orbital Engineering

That way we can have the ICBM and SDI become available earlier than planet busters. And people can be ready for when the real nasties start falling.


Also, Planet Busters are supposed to be the ultimate defoliators. Scorched earth weapons that are used as a last resort to completely and utterly annihilate any opposition.
Think of them as a Nuclear version of your FFH world spells.


How do people like it?

 

[GeoModder]

Please, I don't have experience at all at making balanced mods. Maniac is the creator of Planetfall.
I'm only a fairly good xml-coder with some sidetracks in nif editing.

Nevertheless...

I assume you're thinking of "only" regular fusion bombs (ICBM's) and Planet Busters (the real work).
Okay, I'd say that ICBM's on OrbEng are pretty good, but I would also make Fusion Power a necessary tech. I'll explain below.
First of all, where will you add a negative Planet Value (PV)? That is shown on the base (city) screen, unless you plan to add a general modifier on the Planet Attitude (PA) calculation (the sum of all PV's from a faction). If that's the case, a -1 sounds small for a ICBM wreaking havoc on a plot on Chiron. Say for instance the Gaians with a positive PV count of 10/turn could launch 20 ICBM's and not have a net negative effect anymore 2 turns later.
If it is possible to code it this way I'd give these H-bombs a -1 Planet Value (PV) on detonation per bomb, which continues to be included each turn until the fallout wears off over time as the land recovers or is resettled/terraformed/cleaned.

On Planet Busters (the real work) then: I'd say make OrbEng and Antimatter a prerequisite for these monstrosities. I say Antimatter because I'm thinking that fusion bombs don't pack enough punch to make a mile-deep hole on a planet surface. Antimatter though...
What little I read of it, antimatter bombs are not supposed to leave fallout after detonation. So I think a first hefty -5 PV on detonation, and let it wear of in 5 turns because I assume nature will recolonize the "new" ecosystem quite efficiently.

Just my thoughts.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

I assume you're thinking of "only" regular fusion bombs (ICBM's) and Planet Busters (the real work).

Okay, I'd say that ICBM's on OrbEng are pretty good, but I would also make Fusion Power a necessary tech. I'll explain below.

Fusion power makes for a controlled fusion reaction.
And it would make the ICBM come just 1 tech before PBs.
I don't want them to become obsolete before you can build one.

First of all, where will you add a negative Planet Value (PV)? That is shown on the base (city) screen, unless you plan to add a general modifier on the Planet Attitude (PA) calculation (the sum of all PV's from a faction). If that's the case, a -1 sounds small for a ICBM wreaking havoc on a plot on Chiron. Say for instance the Gaians with a positive PV count of 10/turn could launch 20 ICBM's and not have a net negative effect anymore 2 turns later.
If it is possible to code it this way I'd give these H-bombs a -1 Planet Value (PV) on detonation per bomb, which continues to be included each turn until the fallout wears off over time as the land recovers or is resettled/terraformed/cleaned.

Yes, I mean planet attitude. But only for PB not ICBMs.
Calculating falout related might be a problem becouse it would be wary complex.
Essentialy, I thought about giving the busting player a penalty to the AP.

I had this strange balancing idea.

If you are runing +10 PV per turn (hybrid economy) you can afford to use lots of them. But they will be so expencive that you won't have the hamers to mass use them.

If you are are going teraformer, you are going to be able to mass produce them, but will have to think carefully before using each.

This said, a -1, -5 system does sound much better.

On Planet Busters (the real work) then: I'd say make OrbEng and Antimatter a prerequisite for these monstrosities. I say Antimatter because I'm thinking that fusion bombs don't pack enough punch to make a mile-deep hole on a planet surface. Antimatter though...
What little I read of it, antimatter bombs are not supposed to leave fallout after detonation. So I think a first hefty -5 PV on detonation, and let it wear of in 5 turns because I assume nature will recolonize the "new" ecosystem quite efficiently.

Just my thoughts.

Yea, good idea. Move the PB and the supercolider to Antimatter.

 

[GeoModder]

You're right about Fusion Power not being necessary for fusion bombs. The same situation exists today. Perhaps Atmospherics - or even Biofuel - would make another good prerequisite tech?

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Biofuel is too early a tech for fusion bombs, even as a prerequisite.

Just a thought: the law of conservation of matter (water in this instance) requires that if you destroy land, and water fills in, land should appear somewhere else near a coast, i.e. what was submerged should emerge.

 

[GeoModder]

Biofuel is too early a tech for fusion bombs, even as a prerequisite.

Just a thought: the law of conservation of matter (water in this instance) requires that if you destroy land, and water fills in, land should appear somewhere else near a coast, i.e. what was submerged should emerge.

Depends on the amount of destruction.
If it's only say a single PB detonation in the middle of a continent, sealevels wouldn't be noticably affected.
You would have to create a couple of entire seas to let the ocean level drop a few dozen meters. Or else of course cause a meltdown of the polar caps or a freezing up.
Just to make a comparison. It is presumed that the entire Antarctic icepack would "only" increase global sealevels for about six meters. And that's an area of about 14 million square kilometers with an average ice-thickness of two kilometers...
Given that the typical plot in Civ4 only measures several hundred square kilometers on a standard map, sealevels are not something you should overtly keep in mind.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

But it depends on how deep your crater is. Of course if you just scratch the surface nothing's going to change, but if you go all the way down to the bottom of an ocean that should be enough. Antarctica isn't all ice, you know (it used to be warm and a real inhabited continent, at least by plants).

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Another interesting theory would predict that the impact would vaporize oceans if you do it enough:

Indeed, in the early history of the Earth (about four billion years ago) bolide impacts were almost certainly common since the solar system contained far more discrete bodies than at present. Such impacts could have included strikes by asteroids hundreds of kilometers in diameter, with explosions so powerful that they vaporized all the Earth's oceans. It was not until this heavy bombardment began to slacken that life appears to have begun to evolve on Earth.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

What happens after a PB is that there is a big crater that is filled in by rain and becomes a lake.
Its a shalow lake. Not ocean.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

So then it's not a planet buster, just a little scratch of Chiron's back.

 

[GeoModder]

But it depends on how deep your crater is. Of course if you just scratch the surface nothing's going to change, but if you go all the way down to the bottom of an ocean that should be enough. Antarctica isn't all ice, you know (it used to be warm and a real inhabited continent, at least by plants).

"The bottom of the ocean" can mean alot of things. I had a mile deep in mind.
And on Antarctica, I checked its wikipage before responding. Almost all of those 14 million square kilometers is ice-covered, and the average thickness of the ice-sheet is a bit more then 2 kilometers, which is more then a mile.
Besides, that doesn't include the icepack encircling Antarctica. That's quite a mass too if you consider the Ross -and Weddell sea icepack.
However the conditions on Antarctica were in the past, it is now a covered continent the size of Australia with on average an ice-pack about a mile and a quarter thick.

So then it's not a planet buster, just a little scratch of Chiron's back.

Earth is close to 13,000 km in diameter. A mile can be considered a "scratch" in that perspective.

 

[Pickly]

For the advance that gives regular nukes: Mass drivers or magnetic propulsion seem plausible (Since these advances are somewhat physics-y, and magnetic or mass driver technology seems like the sort of thing that could replicate the A-bomb creates pressure for fusion method that current hydrogen bombs use.)