Panet Busters that Ain't

[PPQ_Purple]

I actualy want it to be the "medievaly brutal" standard earth nuke.

 

[King Flevance]

I am liking where this is going. Is there anyway you could make Regular ICBMs be able to destroy wonders in a city just like a regular building? I want to read over all of this but I just got the computer with PF v13 on it privilages back so I am gonna play it instead. Will have to check back in tomorrow. If needs be I will add in this mod and mod ICBMs myself. (I was already planning to anyways.)

 

[PPQ_Purple]

I am back from having to study for exams.
So if anyone has any ideas lets get cracking.

I am looking for the fallowing:
1. How do I acces a global define from python?
2. What do you think how I should balance a planet penalty for Planet Busters?
3. How do I detach ICBMs from the Supercolider but leave PBs dependent?

Also, what do you mean by that?
Do you want to have normal ICBMs able to destroy wonders?
I don't think they can do that in normal civ either.

 

[King Flevance]

Yeah, basically doing the standard "building test" for them. If they pass, cool - if not, destroyed. It's something I like because it makes you have to be a little more careful as to where and who you nuke. As for balance on the planet buster, I would say have it add at least 10 to the flower counter. Like a "rude nudge" to self awakening. I wouldn't even be against +20 but that seems a bit crazy. That's all I could think of for planet penalty. I will have to look aver the tech tree again for the other bit. I would nuke whoever had the planetary datalinks though ASAP if it could destroy it. I have always wanted nukes in Civ 4 to risk wonders being destroyed. I just haven't messed with trying to figure out how to do it yet.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

I generaly dislike the idea of nukes killing wonders.
Nukes should be used as heavy handed artillery.

If you absolutely want to destroy anything and everything in the city go PB.

 

[Pfeffersack]

Yeah, basically doing the standard "building test" for them. If they pass, cool - if not, destroyed. It's something I like because it makes you have to be a little more careful as to where and who you nuke. As for balance on the planet buster, I would say have it add at least 10 to the flower counter. Like a "rude nudge" to self awakening. I wouldn't even be against +20 but that seems a bit crazy. That's all I could think of for planet penalty. I will have to look aver the tech tree again for the other bit. I would nuke whoever had the planetary datalinks though ASAP if it could destroy it. I have always wanted nukes in Civ 4 to risk wonders being destroyed. I just haven't messed with trying to figure out how to do it yet.

I don't think any direct effect to the FC would be a good idea at all (and values of 10 or 20 are ano-go IMO - that would mean reaching Planet self-awareness by just throwing some PBs... ) Sure, a Terraformer gets hurt by a high FC...but the curious thing is that a Hybrid follower likes a high FC. I see Deidre nuking poor planet Better tie it somehow to the Planet Value a faction generates. That will hurt the "p-busting" faction without harming or pushing others directly (indirectly, more fungal blooms might still cause an FC over time) I would still go for a permanent -X PV for each base per PB/nuke (including new found bases). It would also hit a nuking Hybrid harder (because he/she has more bases - that way you avoid that a Hybrid can launch to much nukes "for free").

An interesting effect would be also to have permanent radiation at the detonation point (both for nukes and PBs) and the surrounding tiles (=very slow to clean), I never understood why cleaning nuclear pollution in civilization was and is so easy and fast. I think it is open to debate whether such a spot should be prone to generating new fungus or even angrier mindworms or rather not...more permanent radiation would also make the related Hive's trait more useful.

 

[Maniac]

I think it is open to debate whether such a spot should be prone to generating new fungus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiotrophic_fungus

 

[Pfeffersack]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiotrophic_fungus

Very interesting read

My vote goes then to treating any radiated tile as fungus tile (though technically the radiated tile itself would contain no fungus!), so that fungus can spread on neighbouring tiles - and the chance for such spreading should be twice as high. And maybe mindworms coming from a nearby a radiated tile could start randomly with a extra promotion or with one less, representing mutations.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

you do know how insane it would be to try and code that?

 

[Pfeffersack]

you do know how insane it would be to try and code that?

Not exactly knowing, but I can try to imagine. But I think also there is nothing wrong with speaking out an idea...if just a fraction of it gets used or someone else gets inspired or encouraged to make his or her own suggestion, its a gain, IMHO.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

I know, I am just saying.
If I was not clear, the idea is nice. But I was hopong you had an idea how to code it...

 

[TC01]

I'm not sure if this would work, but here's my idea.

First, make the Fallout feature graphic a new feature variety type for Fungus- or create a new Fungus graphic that's a blend of the Fallout and Fungus (Fungus with Fallout hovering over it). The latter would probably be better.

Then in onNukeExplosion randomly place Fungus features with a feature variety type of 1, not 0, so that the Fungus appears like Fallout instead of regular Fungus.

Then you'll have Fungus that counts as Fungus but looks radioactive. The only issue might be it spreads Radioactive Fungus instead of regular Fungus.

You could add something to onUnitCreated, possibly, that gives units different promotions if they're created on the radioactive fungus.

 

[The_J]

1. How do I acces a global define from python?

If they are exposed to python (don't know, if Maniac did that for the new ones), they variables should be in the gc class.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiotrophic_fungus

Studying a related subject, and i have to say: .

 

[RocknD]

I can't load it.
It just crashes with a bug. Try loading an earlier save and using the world builder to give your self all the necessary materials and wonders.

OK, Sorry I haven't been able to get on here for any extended period of time. Back to my PB problem.
First, I uninstalled V12m, installed 13a and play D all the way to supercollider. Still no PB with Rubid and Helium.

Then I went back about 10 saves, loaded worldbuilder, checked all I knew to do and loaded up about 6-7 PBs.
On the next turn, I launched one and PF CTD with an error report request.
So, I am stuck again. Could I have a bad BTS install? I can post a save again, but if it's buggy like the last one, ????

I'm getting frustrated with this, so any suggestions from all are welcome.

 

[King Flevance]

But the problem still remains that this hurts the defender more than the attacker if said defender is "red hearted". Green hearted defenders will still have to deal with the aliens but not nearly as bad. Really having fungus show up in the nuked spot is similar to raising the flower counter. only not as long lasting. Actually, after discussing it with a friend - the raising flower counter effects everyone more than "wildlife mutation" at ground zero which hurts only the nuked person making PBs even more powerful. You want this happening to the person who launched it, not the target.

I like the idea of "super fungus" coming into the game and some super wildlife too. The flower counter may not be a good idea But maybe adding a small amount like -2 to planet value of your faction to it and then maybe bring in something else. We have considered bringing in a building required to make PBs and that building having a large red circle thing (Here out I will just call planet attitude *PA* positive or negative - please let me know if that term is wrong.) as a consequence. Maybe -5 PV building that allows PB construction.

Then whenever one explodes the flower counter goes up by X. Additionally, bring in the mutation fungus and mutation wildlife and do not allow Teraform civic to automatically remove the mutation fungus and make it's spread rate also higher than normal fungus. Or allow this super fungus (enabled by PB tech) to grow near bases that have a negative planet value/attitude. Which takes longer to clear and is not removed by terraform civic. Make super aliens more intolerable of green hearts as well.

I do know how hard this would be to code in but I think it would offer a more reasonable risk to the person launching the PBs. Especially if superfungus could spawn spontaneosly on the land on flat tiles. The trick is that you want consequences to everyone for launching them I guess which is hard to do.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Interesting... investigating.
Also, the global define I have in mind is created in the GlobalDefinesAlt.xml

 

[Maniac]

I'm getting frustrated with this, so any suggestions from all are welcome.

Just a wild guess: do you have a steam version of Civ4? I don't know if that could be a problem. Arkham recently mentioned he has Steam but doesn't seem to have any problems with Planetfall. On the other hand there was some guy in the mod forum Planetfall thread who uses Steam and mentioned problems installing Planetfall, plus apparently there are some problems between Dune Wars, Legends of Revolutions and Steam. And Planetfall uses the same installer AFAIK. But I don't know where to find more info what was the problem and solution for DW/LoR.

 

[RocknD]

Just a wild guess: do you have a steam version of Civ4? I don't know if that could be a problem.

Thanks Maniac;
No, I have 2K COMPLETE PC-DVD "Games for Windoze". The only other mod I loaded before PF was Final Frontier.
You got me to thinking, though how I always had to use my BTS disk to play before I installed PF. I wanted to find a 'no cd crack' to use so I wouldn't mess up my copy, but never did find one. Then, like I said, after putting on V12m I didn't need my disk anymore. Could that be it?

 

[Lord Tirian]

Thanks Maniac;
No, I have 2K COMPLETE PC-DVD "Games for Windoze". The only other mod I loaded before PF was Final Frontier.
You got me to thinking, though how I always had to use my BTS disk to play before I installed PF. I wanted to find a 'no cd crack' to use so I wouldn't mess up my copy, but never did find one. Then, like I said, after putting on V12m I didn't need my disk anymore. Could that be it?

The latest BtS patch (3.19) removed the CD check, so - assuming a fully patched-up BtS - you should be able to play CD free for more than half a year now...

Cheers, LT.

 

[Lord Tirian]

Oh, it might be worthwhile to check out Seven05's World Piece (I really liked that mod, too bad that he abandoned it) - one of the game options is "Highly Destructive Nukes" - I liked that option (I'd even like to see it in "vanilla" Planetfall): With it, the impact square had its terrain changed to "wasteland" (i.e. totally useless terrain) and fallout has a low chance to wander and to turn the square into wasteland. I'm not sold on the wasteland transformation (because Planetfall explicitly makes it worthwhile to conquer and retake bases) - but the wandering fallout destroying improvements is cool.

Cheers, LT.