Paradigm Shift

[mystyfly]

Normally I don't REX as quickly and would have attacked Sury sooner... with a bigger army as well (I normally play Monarch or Emperor games, so you can't afford to REX or have a small army). I'll still need quite a few axes to soften up the defenders before I can realistically take it... it's 50% culture defence (with the walls it now has) and is on a hill.

Now you mention it - on which difficulty is this game?

My plan was, yes, pillage the pigs and get a cease fire. He might attack at any moment thereafter though, so I'll have to be ready.

I don't think he attacks until he gets a stack of 7+ units. If he does have that many units, you'll rather fight them in flatland instead of behind city walls, do you?
I think anything than staying outside of that cap is likely a mistake. You should concentrate on pillaging the iron and reinforce with 2-3 axes and some swords.

I'm building a monastery in Moscow, to build a missionary to send to St. Petersburg, but if Hinduism spreads on its own first (which might be quite likely, that always seems to happen just as the missionary arrives at the gate in my games!), the missionary is going to Mansaland.

Wow, quite some goals you've set yourself. Hindu missionaries, Pyramids, units, settlers (well most you've already built) and the GL. I'd focus on less targets but make sure I reach them (I don't like crazy gambles in civ that much - the game seems to 'know' like 100 ways to try to make me fail (like destroying my forge while building the collossus)).

 

[ParadigmShifter]

It's prince level. I am going to try and win 6 different ways with the same leader, normal speed games

I want a mssionary to raise the happy cap of St. Pete, it's the only one that doesn't have Hinduism (thanks Izzy!). Pyramids after that. St. Petersburg and Novgorod are going to just produce units in the meantime.

EDIT: I'll probably bribe Izzy to DoW annoyed Pacal as well in the next round, that will be one worry less.

 

[madscientist]

Well played so far, however I think Sury has to go real soon. You probably should have dircted your SoD to his rear and cut off the iron, Then play a holding game while you wait for reinforcements to arrive.

I would head towards construction and use cat's to finish him off.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Agreed about Sury having to be eliminated soon. If I settle the gold city he will have nowhere to go except in his little galley anyway

My small stack could get to his iron in 4 turns (it really is in an awkward spot), there are 2 horse archers I could whip as well, he'll probably have a few more axes by then though.

Maths then construction is the plan, St. Pete and Novgorod produce enough units to be a credible attack stack until construction, when they will just build cats.

I wasn't too happy with my play this round I'm glad people don't seem to think it was all that bad!

 

[Rycheman]

Hi Paradigm,i discovered your thread a few days ago and thought i'd play along in a shadow game.I usually play Prince or Monarch [epic speed] and thought it looked like a fun series of games.Also, i'd never played Catherine before,as you rightly say, she only seems an average leader, with a late UU and even later UB.

Don't worry,i'll not post any spoiler info as i've already played to 1200ad and eliminated two rivals.I had in fact played this far before you posted your opening screenshots.It is however interesting to see our different approaches to the start.Here's what i did in my opening to the game.

First, i moved the scout SE to the plains tile on the river and decided to build Moscow here.I didn't really like the opening site that much so decided to build my capital on the river for future levees.I still had the cows and further border pops would claim the wine for extra happiness.All those river tiles would be great for cottages plus there were plenty of hills to mine right away and forests to chop.

My second city of St. Petersburg went west, 1s of the rice to caim the horses,marble, rice, lake and 1 of the wines.Not settling in place now looked an even better move.

Instead of my 3rd city going for the stone with all those plains tiles, i decided to go deep into the jungle to block Mansa.Novgorod was also settled on a river claiming the dye,sugar and bananas.this would be a great commerce city later but not good early, in the jungle with no iron working.However,i figured if i left this site ant longer then Mansa would grab it.Plus the stone would be claimed with border pops from this city and the capital.

It was at this point i decided to go to war with the little yellow alien man to my west.Luckily i had popped HBR from a hut so with horses already hooked up i decided on Horse Archers as my first line of attack.Well,my only option, as i didn't have copper or iron yet.I built barracks and stables in Moscow and St. peters.for extra promotions,nice.Sury had just settled a city to my north to caim the gold.I easily took that and razed it cos i didn't like the position,no surprise there then.I re- built it on the coastal flood plain on the river to claim gold,clams and all those flood plains for cottaging.This would be a great commerce site.

I also placed my forth city in the jungle down south on the coast to claim 2 gems,Bananas,and sugar.Another great blocking city but not much use until all that jungle could be cleared.

When i found the copper site to my SW Sury already had his borders pressing there so i could not get that site.I razed a couple more of his badly placed cities when i eventually discovered i had iron in my BFC.By now his remaining cities were all on hills,some had walls, so i decided ,just like you, i could only finish him off with Cats.He was proving to be a real pain but still he would die.

I eventually settled the copper site in the same postion as you and kept two of his cities,i'll not say which just yet.Then i moved on to my next victim who seemed to be less of a pain,probably cos i now had cats.

I built the Great Wall [before stone was hooked up] and got the Oracle,i think i took Monarchy for the extra happiness.Heroic epic would go in St.Petersburg with any GG settled there for exp. points.

I must say i like your idea for this thread and the great way you present it.Keep up the good work on this series of games.I hope you don't mind me hi-jacking your thread but it's a fun game to play.I'll not say any more right now cos Sury is dead along with someone else.

 

[Randylama]

Paradigm
good job on capturing the HH city of his, you're lucky he didn't have copper; axes on that hill would have ruined your day...you probably should have attacked him sooner (as others have suggested)...why didn't you take out the northern city; the capital may have been too well defended with the hill/walls combo, but the other one should have been less well defended...
As for your style, it works for me too, you do post more shots than some of the others I like to read, but it's working thus far, keep at it

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Been a bit tired these last 2 days, hence no update, I'll probably play the next round later on.

I'm thinking I should at least continue the war until I can cut off his iron supply, and generally harass Sury a bit. Maybe swing a few troops up to the northern city as well.

I feel I need to bribe Izzy to DoW Pacal if I do that though, my stone city is only defended by a chariot, ad Pacal's UU is a spearman.

 

[Groogaroo]

Been a bit tired these last 2 days, hence no update, I'll probably play the next round later on.

Hey, thats okay. but play the next round soon okay! I wanna hear what happens to granma sury.

Seriously though I wouldn't call that a bad round, could have gone better yes, you should see what happens when I try an early war.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

OK, I played the next round, it started off pretty disastrously, lots of mistakes, I shouldn't play when tired

I'll get doing the writeup later, played a much longer round this time, to 640AD! Cathy banished me to the dungeons for my poor play.

Needless to say, the economy is in ruins now So round 5 will be a recovery phase I think.

 

[Rycheman]

Looking forward to seeing your next round,hurry up and post it thou'.Don't worry about a few small mistakes no ones perfect.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Sorry for the delay... not enough cups of tea.

I've uploaded the screenies now, will start doing my report soon.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Dominatrix Cathy - round 4 (to 640AD).

Right, where were we? I decided to continue the war for a bit longer, hoping to pillage Sury's iron supply and generally do a choke tactic to cause him annoyance until I can tech to construction and wipe him off the face of the Earth. This isn't a tactic I use very often, as you will see

Defenders in unpronouncable capital of Suryavaman



Power graph



Diplo situation



Izzy likes me, but she won't be bribed into distracting Pacal with a war so my rear is safe (not from Cathy's whip, from Pacal's pointy spears)



Which is a bit of a shame.

Military advisor. I've not really got enough troops here.



This is all I have next to Yasodwhatever, 2 more swordsman are on the way you notice



Here's the location of the barb city, like I said it's in a pretty good location. I'll have to check it out and capture it before Mansa gets any funny ideas



Mansa has built another city. It's lightly defended though, just a skirmisher. Mansa isn't a target yet anyway.



I delay building a monastery in Moscow, preferring more axes instead



I do a resource trade with Mansa, I have a cow going spare, try and get some good diplo with him because Pacal seems to be the natural next target. I can steal some techs off Mansa before beating him about a bit, that's the plan.



I get some dudes in position for the choke, but Sury looks like he is ready to do a counter attack. Luckily I have chariots to deal with his axes, unfortunately they are the only defenders of my border cities with him. I need to wait for the right moment to attack them. (Note, someone built the Oracle as well).



But, he moved the axe out of his capital. This is where my choke tactics started going wrong



For some crazy reason, I decide to do some suicide attacks to see if I can kill some of the archer defenders. Don't try this at home kids.



I killed both the axes that were looking like a counter attack, and reduced his city garrison to just a swordsman and an archer. But I took heavy damage, and the choke made a great whooshing sound as it flew out of the window of opportunity... Stupidly, Sury counter attacked and lost an axe (to a shock axe) and an archer as well.



And then Mansa comes along being, well, Mansa. I agree to his request, and he becomes pleased with me. I didn't fancy a sneak attack by Mansa, so I had to give in really.



Max images, to be continued

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Dminatrix Cathy - round 4 (to 640AD, part 2)


Meanwhile my worker I built at the stone site is building a quarry.



Pacal decides to have a bit of a joke I refuse of course. I really hope he doesn't try and attack me. I need to build some defenders aat the stone site ASAP.



More reinforcements at Sury's capital, I still haven't cut off his iron, and a volcano near St. Petersburg destroys my farm and mine there. Not good.



Aftermath of the volcano



Somewhere around this point I used my spare settler to grab the gold site...



And then, 1 tech away from construction and catapults



I get an option to end the war, I decide against it.



Although my attacking force is neither big, nor clever



Sury keeps doing crazy things like moving his troops out of his capital, just to confuse me. It works



More suicidal attacks, and some spearmen pop up in the capital.



Time to go back to the mistress with my tail between my legs, accepting a cease fire. As soon as I get a few catapults together, I will resume the hostilities.



Meanwhile I have a peek at the barb city. It has a laughable defence force, and a worker to boot!



In times of peace, prepare for war. Or, alternatively, build a world wonder instead. I had a great general earlier and settled him here as well, so he will be wasted while I build the mids. I normally attach him to a chariot to make a super medic, I didn't this time, wanting to make city raider 2 axes and swords from the off. That turned out to be quite a good plan in the end though



Cathy's gimp ambassador commits a faux pas, although Mansa is a fellow Hindu by now so it doesn't matter a great deal.



Sury looks like he might try and attack at any moment...

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Dominatrix Cathy - round 4 (to 640AD, part 3)

I finsh teching construction. Time to build some catapults and get a decent attack force together to finish off Sury.

Luckily, Sury didn't attack HH, the city with the marble. Meanwhile, I take the barb city with an axe and a chariot.



I managed to get some defenders to HH. Sury missed his chance to attack.



Now that Mansa is blocked off from Russian lands, I offer open borders with him.

I start researching aesthetics as well, to build the Great Library later in the capital. My first great scientist arrives at Moscow, I use him to build an academy there.

Nearly finished the mids as well, chopped some forests. I wanted to time the chops so I finished the mids with chopping, but I didn't



The Great Lighthouse is built in a faraway land



I start whipping catapults



And my first world wonder is completed, and it is probably my favourite, the pyramids.



So I do the obvious thing...



I'm basically just building catapults and axes and horse archers now, moving them into position at HH for the war.

Aesthetics is in now, polytheism is next, so I can research literature. Izzy still wont trade poly to me





So polytheism is finished next



And then I feel I have enough to start the war again.



I declare war but don't invade staright away, hoping Sury will attack on my turf and I can reduce his defences a little before moving in for the kill.



Meanwhile Izzy wants a site in the jungle with some gems, it looks pretty good.



And I do a trade with Izzy. She wanted aesthetics for these techs but I blagged her with horseback riding.



I don't change to organised religion yet, I'm still buildng units.

I soak up Sury's attacks





Notice Izzy is sending more missionaries, to my (soon to be) cities.

Note to Sury - don't send an unescorted swordsman on its own to attack.



My invasion force. More axes are on the way.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Domnatrix Cathy - round 4 (to 640AD, part 4)

Defenders in Angkor Thom



Izzy settles the gems city. I finally see Pacal's lands



Some xp for my medic chariot



Pacal built the Great Wall.



Bombarding the city of Angkor Thom



I do another trade with Izzy. I have grapes so I want monarchy to build wineries for extra happiness.



Moving in for the kill, my horse archer just defeated a swordsman that snuck out of his capital, 1 tile south of my stack.



I try and get calendar from Mansa. When I see what he wants for it, I laugh in his face and don't do the deal.



I start researching code of laws next, literatuere is in, the Great Library is next build in the capital. I should have plenty of time to build it.

After bombarding Angkor Thom and attacking with some collateral damage cats, it's time to capture the city.



I finish off the last defender with the medic chariot, and move a hrose archer into the city as well to defend. Note that there is a Khmer axe and a spear on the hill next to the stack, spot the deliberate mistake



It's a good city, it also has 2 workboats already built on the fish.



Oops, I thought the axe and the spear were going to attack my city on the north coast, guess what they did instead?



Yep, killed my medic chariot and recaptured the city. I capture it again the next turn though. DOH!I got my second great general here as well, I want to make a medic 3 chariot this time, unfortunately I have no chariots with 6 xp, which would make a unit that means I can build west point later, but never mind. I'm sure I'll get someone up to 26 xp eventually. The lighthouse stays intact when I recapture the city, which is nice.

Sury is pretty much finished now, I redirect my espionage towards Mansa and Pacal.



My 2nd world wonder, my 2nd favourite, also in Moscow...



Defences in Sury's capital, and my southern attack force



After bombardment and collateral damage attacks...



Code of Laws is in, Mansa discovered it a few turns before me so he gets the religion. Hopefully he will change to confucianism later and annoy Izzy and myself



max images, nearly done...

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Dominatrix Cathy - round 4 (to 640AD, part 5)

It's nearly over for Grandma Suryavarman..





Don't yu just hate it when you finish attacking and the camera swings off to the next unit miles away... this is what happened when Sury's capital fell and he was defeated (finally)




I stopped playing there.

It was a fairly awful round


However, we have everything we need to sort out the economy (well, courthouses anyway, and lots of workers) and get a fairly nice specialist economy going. The pyramids and the Great Library should see my research take off through science specialists and lightbulbing or settling Great Scientists.


Here's the save... I might do another update later with shots of the cities I now have and graphs and such things.

 

[Groogaroo]

Hey, don't beat yourself up, it wasn't that bad, mistakes aside (and you should see some of my mistakes ) Sury's dead and buried. Like you say you have the mids, and Great library, once st.petersburg gets up and running your teching is gona take off.

So I guess your going to take stock and get your economy going, but after that whats your next plan? What are you going to do about Mansa? I guess he's your next target.

However you felt that round went it was still entertaining

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Pacal or Mansa I guess.

If I can bribe Izzy into DoWing Pacal, I can safely take on Mansa next and not worry about a small -1 diplo hit for "you declared war on our friend". That being said, I kind of like having Mansa around to help with the tech trading/stealing thing. I could always wait and see if he is going to foolishly become Confucian (evil laugh).

Pacal is a bit of a wonder hog in my experience and no-one likes him so he is the natural target if I don't kill Mansa next.

First though, the economy, change to organised relgion, whip courthouses everywhere, then change to caste system and run alot of scientists. Both of the new Khmer cities have alot of surplus food, might have to demolish some cottages, might not.

I try to entertain, like I said this shouldn't be taken as an example of optimum play. Next round - how to get your economy out of the toilet when losing 20 gold per turn at 0% science (or, Cathy broke the 60% rule).

 

[ParadigmShifter]

As promised, here are some city screens and some graphs.

Capital - Moscow



Coming along nicely, finally getting its granary now. I settled a Great General here expecting to put the Heroic Epic here as well, but maybe Sury's former capital is a better bet for that. This is the main science city anyway, will get Oxford. With the pyramids and the great library, it is an OK source of GP, but nothing spectacular. If I get a great engineer it may be worth rushing the Hanging Gardens here for more GE points. Hanging Gardens is a good wonder when you have REXed your way to an economic crisis, the more cities you have when you build it, the better it gets


St. Petersburg



This will be my GP farm, I have already started work farming it up. After a courthouse it wants the National Epic. It needs to get Hinduism and build a temple as well, so I can run a priest. Until we get caste system I can only run 2 scientists here, so I probably want to get techs which enable buildings providing specialists slots (i.e. metal casting for forges, currency for markets). I already have code of laws for the courthouse and a spy specialist. I doubt I'll run artists unless I run out of specialist slots, but I want drama anyway since I will be warmongering sooner rather than later. Globe theatre could be good here for some endgame whipping and drafting. This city will rpoduce a Great Scientist with 100% chance in 4 turns. I think philosophy is bulbable now, so will probably do that.


Novgorod



Needs alot of work doing here, I am working an unimproved tile. Also needs a lighthouse. I was thinking Moai statues here but one of the Khmer cities might be more useful for those. This city has no ocean tiles though, which is a bonus. This city will be handy for producing ships anyway.


Rostov - Stone City



This will be a frontline city if I go to war with Mansa or Pacal, hence the garrison troops. This city also needs improving with workers. I want calendar soon to build a plantation on the jungle bananas.


Hariharalaya - Marble City



I don't know whether to cottage or farm this city after civil service. Since I have pyramids I may farm it and run specialists, although its inland location means cottages are safe from pillagers so could be a nice little earner later on.


Yaroslavl' - Gold city



This was purely to grab the gold. It has hardly any long term potential. It can grow from working the sea tiles however.


Thracian - former barb city



Could be a candidate for National Park, if I don't chop those trees. It's pretty late on that national wonder though. It's nice and scenic anyway, Cathy can enjoy her holidays by the sea here. It was suffering some war weariness unhappiness but now that Sury is dead that will go away again.


Angkor Thom



Pretty nice city for specialists. I may demolish some of the cottages near the southern lake for farms. This could be better for the Moaia statues as well.


Yasodharapura - still revolting



You can see it is a nice city though, 2 pigs on grassland hills and lots of production. Maybe the Heroic Epic is best placed in this city? It is coastal as well so can build boats unlike Moscow.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Charts and graphs section...

Diplo



Izzy and Mansa are both pleased, Pacal is annoyed. Pacal hates me more than the other heathens since I am the only one not running Hereditary Rule, which is his fave.

Trade



Mansa cancelled the fish deal earlier this round. I have fish now anyway. I could do with trading for his sugar though.

Tech situation



Pacal has beaten Izzy to Theology. That means he can run theocracy though. A war against Pacal might be tricky. I'll have to see if I can get a sensible deal for calendar from Mansa soon.

Power



I only have enough EPs to see demographics data on Mansa, so that's wht this graph shows.

GNP



Mansa has metal casting for his mint UB, which boosts gold by 10%, plus he is financial. I'm not too concerned about lagging behind.

Production



Better than Mansa

Top 5 cities



#4

That screen I hardly ever look at but some people like anyway



EP costs with respect to Mansa, whom I have most pints on



Victory conditions



Note that Yasod... is still in revolt. Doing OK, a chance the continent is big enugh for dom on its own.

Culture



Resources. I didn't do much exploring this round



*****************************************

I might just play the next round later on, all it will be is building infrastructure to sort the economy out. I will stop when a decision has to be made as to who to invade next.