PBEM - Dark Ages Always War

[ruff_hi]

good idea - anyone know anything about google groups?

Edit: just googled google groups ... there are 3 options ...

• Public - Anyone can read the archives. Anyone can join, but only members can post messages, view the members list, create pages and upload files.
• Announcement-only - Anyone can read the archives. Anyone can join, but only managers can post messages, view the members list, create pages and upload files.
• Restricted - People must be invited to join the group. Only members can post messages, read the archives, view the members list, create pages and upload files. Your group and its archives do not appear in public Google search results or the directory.

I would like people to be able to read our thoughts but not post suggestions. I think the 2nd one is the one to go for but it will still mean that the other team can peek - I'm happy with an honor system - how about you?

 

[Karhu]

Google groups are pretty straight forward (even I can manage to start a group), and it's pretty easy to limit who has access to the group.

 

[Mitchum]

I'm okay with whatever regarding team threads. However, it seems like a pain to have some threads on this forum and have to go to Google groups to read other threads.

Regarding placement of units, I was under the impression that prior to the game, we would be placing each of our units on the tile we wanted. I'm okay with however it works as long as it is similar for all players.

 

[Dazz_G]

I agree with Mitch ... I don't particularly want to have to read / post Google groups as well as CFC.

 

[Karhu]

well, no need to post here if we just send the save to "all" each time (or use Ruff's PBEM tool). But i'm not worried about the security issues, so I have no problem with keeping the "team threads" here. I just wanted everyone to be aware of the possibility of a 3rd party screwing our game.

 

[Karhu]

I just tried to play the save.

I can fire up the mod no problem, but when I try to play the save I get: The save file you have selected is protected to ensure that the assets in your mod folder have not been changed.

 

[ruff_hi]

hmmn - I just tried with your save (send from Mitch yesterday at 6:20pm) and it worked fine. Questions / comments?

1. Are you using the latest mod (see post #1)?
2. Did you double click the save or open the mod and then try to open the save?
3. Remember, this is a PBEM and not a single player game - need to open via the PBEM menu
4. Where did you install the mod? Suggest under 'prog files' and not under 'my docs'.
5. Suggest you rename existing 'dark ages' directory and unzip mod again

 

[ruff_hi]

I also think we should play on a small map. Tiny is just too tiny...

I took another look at this today. Tiny will enable about 3 cities per team. Small will open that up to 5 or 6. I'd be happy to play with 3 cities per team but that would mean that losing just 1 city would really hurt. With 5 or 6 cities per team, this could be an epic struggle. Is that what we want?

 

[ruff_hi]

Suggestions on additional comments to the map maker:

1. remove all marble - removes the Heroic Epic build multiplier
2. remove all stone - removes multiplier for walls, castle, etc
3. change all peaks to mountains
4. attempt to balance happy / heath resources

 

[Karhu]

1. yes.
2. I double clicked the save. Mod was not open.
3. Non-issue since the mod was not open.
4. Installed in 'prog files'.
5. let me try something else first.

6. I was able to load and play the save. I had to switch the assets .dll file from bts to vanilla. Sorry I didn't have time to try this earlier, lots of packing to do. I've been switching back and forth ever since buying BtS so as to finish our (Ruff and I's) "Earth1000ad" game (which is now done).

I do not want to enter into another game that will force me to keep doing this, as my available time will be greatly shortened soon, and this would discourage me from playing my turn. Not good for a PBEM.

Ruff and Chopstyx said earlier that there was a solution to this, but I was to dumb to figure it out at the time. Maybe I'll go back to the threads/email and try to figure it out again.

 

[ruff_hi]

ok - I have the test game back so that is working. The only issue is the BtS DLL issue raised by Karhu above. We either all play under the BtS version or the Vanilla version. I for one have other vanilla PBEMs that require the vanilla version so using the BtS version would require 'swaps' from me.

Karhu - why do you have the BtS version as your 'current' version?

 

[Mitchum]

I don't have BtS, so it's Vanilla or nothing for me...

Ruff, I agree with your suggestions to the map maker.

Regarding size, I still think tiny is too tiny. They named it that for a reason... Even on small, you can go with 3 or 4 cities or you an try to cram in 5 or 6. It all depends on strategy.

 

[Karhu]

Karhu - why do you have the BtS version as your 'current' version?

He is the series of emails exchanged when we encountered this problem in the Earth1000ad game. Some irrelevant omissions made.

From Chopstyx

Spoiler :

Hello guys,

When I try to load the latest save (1816AD) I am getting the message "The
save file you have selected is protected to ensure that the assets in your
mod folder have not been changed.", followed by "Load Failed".

I think the only new thing I've added to my Civ game recently is the
official 3.13 patch for BtS and then Bhuric's 3.13 patch for BtS, would this
have caused the above messages?

Thanks,
Chopstyx

From Karhu

Spoiler :

yeah, i had that exact problem when I bought BTS about a week or two ago. there is a work around that isn't to much trouble once you get it, but it might be a pain to get to that point. I'm not a computer guy like you and Ruff, so forgive me if I don't use the proper terms explaining this.

In your Civ 4 folder there is a sub folder "Assets". Inside that is a file "CvGameCoreDLL.dll", this is your problem file as it updated when you updated BTS.

My research indicated that you have two options; 1) dual install, with one install only patched to 1.74 and no BTS, or 2) Reinstall Civ 4, patch to 1.74, then copy the .dll file and put it in a safe spot. Then install BTS and patch to 3.13, copy the "new" .dll file and put it in a different safe spot. Now you have two .dll files and you just drop the appropriate one into your "Assets" folder depending on whether you are playing our "old" game or BTS.

I'm using option two myself, as I don't have room for a dual install. Let me know if I didn't explain this well enough, or left something out.

-karhu

From Ruff

Spoiler :

Chop,

The BtS v3.13 update over-wrote the 'CvGameCoreDLL.dll' file in 'C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Assets'. This is causing your problem. I have two versions of this file, one vanilla and one BtS. To play this PBEM game, I use the vanilla version and if I want to play a HOF or similar vanilla game, I have to use the BtS version. It is just a matter or renaming the file.

CvGameCoreDLL-BtS.dll size = 3,630kb, date = 9/24/2007
CvGameCoreDLL-Vanilla.dll size = 3,624kb, date = 5/17/2007

Do you want me to send you the vanilla version?

Ruff

 

[ruff_hi]

Here is a list of requirements for the map ...

• Civ4 Version: Vanilla
• map type: TeamBattleGround, Left v Right
• Size: Small
• Speed: Normal
• Era: Renaissance
• Teams start together
• Options: No Barbs, Always War

Steps in making map ...

1. start custom single player game with map setup as per above
2. 4 players, civs unimportant but I would like a nice color separation or a story about why the two sides are fighting (ie France v England, or West Europe v East Europe) - one suggestion is England + France v Arabia + Egypt
3. Two teams playing in order: Team 1 Player 1, Team 2 Player 1, Team 1 Player 2, Team 2 Player 2
4. Start game
5. Open game in WB
   • create strip of desert between land masses in middle of map, 3 tiles wide
   • reveal left side of map plus desert strip to team on left
   • reveal right side of map plus desert strip to team on right
   • remove marble and stone
   • replace peaks with mountains hills
   • attempt to balance happy / heath resources
   • remove huts - best way of doing this is to save as WB save, edit resulting file in notepad (or similar) and search for 'goodie hut' and remove that line
   • check that both teams have reasonably accessable 2xCopper, 2xIron, 2xHorses
   • save as WB save
6. return to main menu
7. load up 'Dark Ages' mod
8. select multiplayer
9. select PBEM
10. select start from scenario
11. select WB save from #5 above
12. enter player names: Ruff_Hi, Mitch, Karhu, Dazz_G
13. game name: 'Dark Ages Jan2009'
14. admin password: something suitable, email to Ruff!
15. start game
16. enter 1234 as Ruff's password
17. save game and send save to Ruff

 

[ruff_hi]

Karhu - that is useful but didn't answer the question. Why do you use the BtS version of the vanilla dll? BtS doesn't care which version of the DLL is sitting in the vanilla assets directory - it has it's own version sitting in its own asset folder. No need to swap the vanilla DLL if you are playing BtS.

It is only a problem if you want to play vanilla HOF games (or similar) that require that you use the BtS DLL.

 

[Karhu]

i thought the BtS dll replaced (overwrote) the vanilla dll. Which is why a duel install is needed; or installing vanilla, pulling out the vanilla dll to a safe place, and then installing BtS, followed by a swap each time you wanted to play. Is this incorrect? Because I think that's what I've been doing.

 

[ruff_hi]

going out to breakfast - will post detailed(!) comments on this later

 

[ruff_hi]

The Great DLL Mystery!

Each version of the game uses its own DLL, but they are all called the same ... CvGameCoreDLL.dll. They are just stored in different file locations.

Vanilla -> C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Assets
Warlords -> C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Warlords\Assets
BtS -> C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Assets

This file contains game information like how many city population is killed when whipping, how many hammers are produced, etc, etc.

When BtS 3.13 patch (or it could have been the 3.17 patch) came out, Firaxis decided to patch the vanilla and warlords DLLs at the same time. This is good in that they are showing that they still support the older versions, but it was bad in that they didn't mention this in their patch documentation.

So, the BtS patch changed the vanilla and warlords DLLs. These modified DLLs became known as the Vanilla BtS version and the Warlords BtS version.

Some games are very sensitive about the DLL - for obvious reasons - you can create your own DLL and include lots of cool things (like wonders can be rushed by whipping 1 population). Obviously this is grossly unfair when playing multi-player (or competition) games and so the game checks the DLL to see if is the same one that started the game.

On the other hand, most people's single player games don't care about the DLL - if you want to adjust things, you can - no problem.

The vast majority of players don't even know which version of the DLL they are playing under. However, if you are playing a vanilla (or warlords) PBEM (or similar) game, then you want everyone that plays to use the same DLL. The default is the original (or not BtS patched version). In some situations, players had to use the patched version (ie HOF, SGOTM or GOTM games) to play their vanilla or warlords games. This required them to swap back and forth between the two vanilla / warlords versions.

If you are playing BtS, it doesn't care which version of the vanilla / warlords DLLs you use - it has its own.

My current set up is:

• Vanilla - original 1.74 patched DLL, BtS patched version available but not used
• Warlords - original patched DLL, BtS patched version available but not used
• BtS - patched to 3.17

I haven't played a HOF, SGOTM, GOTM game for ages so I haven't had to fiddle with my DLLs.

 

[Mitchum]

Hi Ruff,

One small comment. In your instructions to the map maker, what is the difference between a "peak" and a "mountain"? By mountain, are you referring to hills?

Mitch

 

[ruff_hi]

In your instructions to the map maker, what is the difference between a "peak" and a "mountain"?

Nothing. A peak = mountain - the terrain that you cannot cross. A hill is something that you can mine.