Peloponnesian War Scenario Development Thread

[_Philospher_]

I didn't know there was a penalty/bonus for conquering a site. Or are you asking me if there should be? If so, I'm not sure. It's up to Amenhotep, I'm just making suggestions. lol

Also I've decided to compile a list of Great Leaders for Athens and Sparta. (I would do the other city states, but I havnt found much info )

Athens:
Kleon
Nikias
Alkibiades ( Should I make him a Spartan Great Leader since he switched sides so often?)
Konon
Demosthenes
Phormion
Others?

Sparta
Agis
Thrasymelidas
Brasidas
Alkibiades (see Athens)
Gylippos
Mindaros
Lysander
Others?

Edit: Changed and added the two more GL to Athens. Also, should we change "leader" to "stratego" instead?

 

[Greek Stud]

That is a cool list of Wonders, can we call the one listed as Acropolis as "Parthenon". In Greek Acropolis just means the height of the city, every city in Ancient Greece had a height of the city, it was where all the citizens ran during a raid. It was like saying, go towards ocean! or run to the height of the city! So basically an acropolis is not something you build, but the Parthenon was built on the acropolis in the city of Athens... the Parthenon is the Temple of Athena by the way

Athens: Parthenon (Temple of Athena)
Athens: Erechthleum (Temple with 3 Shrines to Poseidon, Athena Polias, and Erechthleus, famous for the columns of female statues around Athena's Shrine)

Didyma: Temple of Apollo

If you earn a King Unit by winning a battle, the Greeks use to hold festivals in honor of Battle Victories. Maybe this can be incorporated into the text? Our City-State holds a festival in your honor!

Pretty much all cities had temples and or shrines to all the pagan gods, so I'm not sure that it really matters which ones are put where. Some important ones were: Nike (speed), Dionysis (feritility & wine), Hera (queen of gods), Hermes (god's herald), Zues (king of gods), Poseidon (sea), Hades (underworld), Ares (war), Demeter (agriculture), Aphrodite (love & beauty), Hephaistos (fire), Apollo (light or sun), Artemis (hunt, youth and moon) and Hestia (the hearth).

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

We know that all cities had temples to all of the gods, but some of the cities had an important temple to a particular god where different people would go on pilgrimage to. Aphrodite's was Paphos on Cyprus. Poseidon's was Helice in Achaea. And so forth. All he's done is pick and choose different ones to the more important gods.

 

[billesarius]

Greetings all. A few comments if I may.
Greek Stud, Nike was goddess of Victory not speed. The word means 'victory'.
_Philosopher_, I would suggest replacing Cimon with Demosthenes (not the orator) or else with Phormion. The Cimon famous from the Persian wars was dead by this time. Demosthenes was instrumental at the Pylos victory, won a notable double victory against Ambraciots and Peloponesians early in the war and led the reinforcement to Syracuse. Phormion won a pair of naval battles in the Corinthian gulf early in the war against great odds.
Regarding wonders, there are some good things in the list. I am not clear if you intend to place them all at the start of the game but certainly a lot of them would be in Athens or Sparta if so. I want to suggest some alternatives that might spread out the wonders or make them less generic in name ( there had to have been thousands of temples of Zeus ).
Statue of Olympian Zeus at Olympia - 40 ft of ivory overlain with gold. This was one of the 7 wonders of the ancient world and existed during the war.
Temple of Artemis at Ephesus (asia minor) also one of the 7 wonders. Built c 550 bc and lasted well into Roman Period.
Parthenon (agreeing with Greek Stud) rather than Temple of Athena would be more proper.
Heraeum of Samos - a specific Temple of Hera. Herodotus regarded this as the largest temple in the Greek world.
Agoge - alternative name for Spartan military code. SMC is good but to greeks is was the agoge fwiiw.
Great Rhetra - alternative to Council of Ephors, it was the whole system of laws instituted by Lycurgus and the basis for Spartan society.
Great Harbor might be moved to Syracuse to get some wonders out of mainland Greece. Syracuse of course did have a harbor called the "Great Harbor".
Great Theater. If I used a specific one it would be the Theater of Epidaurus in NE Peloponesus. Still used today, seats 15k and regarded and the most acoustically perfect greek theater (still standing at least).

Other possibilities:
Isthmian ship track near Corinth. Fore runner of the Corinth canal. Allowed ships to be pulled overland from Gulf of Corinth to Saronic Gulf. Strategic and commercial importance.
Eleusinian Mysteries - ritual preview of the after life. At Eleusis, NW of Athens.
Samothracian Mysteries (if you prefer something outside of Athens). At Samothrace island, NE Aegean.
Aquaduct of Eupalinus - On Samos island, cut through 1100+ yards of mountain side. Per historian Peter Green, was regarded by the greeks as one of their great engineering feats.
Homeric Studies - At Chios and Smyrna were schools devoted to study and preservation of Homer's works. Smyrna was in ruins at this time though.
School of Medicine - established by Hippocrates ( alive/prominent at this time ) on the island of Cos, SE Aegean.
Greater Dionysia - Theatrical festival/competition at Athens in which plays of Euripides, Aeschylus etc were first presented.
Hope there is something useful here.

 

[Amenhotep7]

I like the idea of giving the Great Theatre the Shakspeare's theater effect.

1) The Oracles reduce war weariness
2) They do NOT double temple effectiveness

Also, is there any happiness bonus / penalty (get unhappy people for conquering sacred sites - maybe Dodona has none, and Delphi gives a bit of unhappiness)?

1 and 2 are correct, and I like your idea for Delphi.

I like some of your ideas there, billesarius. Welcome to CFC![dance] I'll address them later.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Since War Weariness effects all govs to some extent, and I'd assume Locked War is on, War Weariness and Happiness improvements would definately be needed.

Assuming nothing was changed about govs, since last time I checked.

 

[Amenhotep7]

As said, this scen is coming out for PTW first, but when it is ready for C3C, Locked War it is.

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

So first off, here are the updated wonders:

Great Theatre
Located: Epidauros
Effects: 8 Happy people in the city it is built

Oracle of Dodona
Located: Dodona
Effects: Reduces War Weariness

Oracle of Delphi
Located: Delphi
Effects: Reduces War Weariness. Causes Unhappiness in all cities

Citadel of Acrocorinthus
Located: Corinth
Effects:

Statue of Zeus
Located: Olympia
Effects:

Olympic Games
Located: Olympia
Effects:

Spartan Military Code or Agoge
Located: Sparta
Effects:

Heraeum of Samos
Located: Samos
Effects:

Parthenon (bye bye Temple of Athena)
Located: Athens
Effects:

Long Walls of Piraeus
Located: Athens / Piraeus
Effects:

Erechthleum (courtesy of Greek-Stud to replace Acropolis)
Located: Athens
Effects:

Temple of Dionysus
Located:
Effects:

Mines of Amphipolis
Located: Amphipolis
Effects: Collosus effect. +50% tax revenue (improvements)

Marble Quarries of Thasos
Located: Thasos
Effects:

Great Port of Byzantium
Located: Byzantium
Effects:

Poetry of Sappho
Located:
Effects:

Delian Treasury
Located: Delos
Effects:

Great Harbor
Located: Syracuse
Effects:

Spartan Defense
Located: Sparta
Effects:

Council of Ephors or Great Rhetra
Located: Sparta
Effects:

So, where to put the following...
- The Temple of Dionysus
- Poetry of Sappho

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

Here are those that you may want to include:

Aqueduct of Eupalinus
Located: Samos

Eleusinian Mysteries
Located: Eleusis

Isthmian Ship Track (Maybe a better name)
Located: Corinth

School of Homer
Located: Chios (so Chios, like Samos could be a civ *hint hint* )

School of Medicine
Located: Cos

 

[Amenhotep7]

Remember, we can have a limit of 34 wonders...Is that the limit in the real game? There's no way we can use all of these. They're very good, nonetheless.

 

[Amenhotep7]

Xen-How goes the map? It doesn't seem like he's posted on any thread lately, let alone check in here. It might be tests or something...

Kryten-I know you've been a busy busy Kryten, but how do the units go?

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

You might want to PM Xen.

If that doesn't work I'll have to go to the history forum and deride the Byzantine Empire to get his attention.

 

[Amenhotep7]

Ya, I'll PM him, but I'll hafta wait a few days.

 

[The Last Conformist]

A wonder that reduces war weariness and causes unhappiness? Sounds like a quite weird, not to mention self-nullifying, thing, methinks.

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

Remember, we can have a limit of 34 wonders...Is that the limit in the real game?

That's only 25 including the five that are there for you to decide if you want / need them in the scenario.

PS: You replied surprisingly quickly

 

[Amenhotep7]

Yeah, it kinda does...

Mongoloid Cow-Coincidence.

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

Originally posted by The Last Conformist
A wonder that reduces war weariness and causes unhappiness? Sounds like a quite weird, not to mention self-nullifying, thing, methinks.

It would take a bit of work to get the balance right, but you won't get the effect of reduced war weariness for nothing.

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

Everytime I've written a reply, someone else has in the time I've spent writing it. I think I'm going to go now.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Xen, BTW, posted in the Varangian Guardsmen thread - defending the Cataphracts' position as the characteristically Byzantine unit - earlier today, so don't worry; he's around.

 

[Amenhotep7]

Alright. <wipes sweat from brow>Sigh...I'm just a bit worried, since the release time kinda rides on him releasing the map, at th moment.