Pangur Bán
Deconstructed
I'd really love that utility.
Peloponnesian War Scenario Development Thread
- Thread starter Amenhotep7
- Start date
I'd really love that utility.
Amenhotep7
Spartiate
From what I can see on the screenies, there are alotta cities jam-packed tight...I'm not exactly sure where he could put more in some areas. 
simply put, in most cases, I cant, it took a few tricks just to get Delphi on there as an indipendent city-state... I can TRY to get Ageae, but not now, i have literally been working all day, since when I annouced it would be done tonight, to when I posted the near completed version up- the rest of the day will be used for rest- I know work will resume next weekend,definatelly on sunday, mabey sooner
Mongoloid Cow
Great Khan
Xen, Daskyleion is near Cyzicus (?) or Lampsacus. I can't ever remember which ones which. Anyway, it's on one of the maps you posted on this thread.
Cut out any city which gets in the way of Aegae.
Ignore the deadline if you can't get it done by then. It's better to do things good now than having to do them later.
Cut out any city which gets in the way of Aegae.
Ignore the deadline if you can't get it done by then. It's better to do things good now than having to do them later.
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
Originally posted by Amenhotep7
Hmm, this pic is very helpful.
I guess I didn't realize it was a tripod pic
Here's the web page (like I said, its from 380 BC).
http://members.tripod.com/~Centime/Etruscans/territory/map3.html
By the time I finish the 5 new pages, I don't even know if this will be important.
Some of the cities are hard to see, and I can't even see Etruria at all (I personally think they should be the Blue that Germany had
)Anyway, I'll read on and see what else I should respond to
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
What I personally would do is just use a Harbor. Once Sparta builds a navy, it can blockade Athen's sea squares and starve them down.
You could prevent Sparta from building a navy until later in the Tech Tree.
Small, Aegean cities were attacked all the time. It was the cities of Athens and Sparta which were tough to take down. And Athens couldn't do it because they didn't have land superiority. Sparta was a bit different. They couldn't do it, because of Athens Walls (Longwalls). This could just be an improvement that gives a high defense and can only be built at Athens. I also think the Metropolis defense value for Athens would be a major factor. If Sparta can't knock down the walls (and they didn't have any Seige Engines, so there is no reason they could), they would have to starve them to get rid of this defensive bonus. C3C's plague could also be a factor, knocking off some more Athenian pop points. Eventually, Athens will shrink in size, and can be conquered more easily.
This is tricky. It could just be they'll attack Athenian cities in Ionia (I definately don't want them taking Athens itself, but just giving money isn't an alliance in this game).
With the Xenophobic ability with Conquests, loosing captured cities could be realistic (Sparta's domination of Athens was an unhappy one, it wasn't long before the 30 tyrants were driven out and Athens was free again). I believe Culture flips are supposed to represent rebellions.
Maybe keep them out with a strong land army
11) How will you cut the proliferation of military units?
12) Are you going to have settlers in the game?
Just a few questions there I'd like to here your thoughts on.
I'd still very much like to know what strategic issues you think were involved in the war?
Would you like my oppinion?
Keep in mind that the AI would probably have none of the strategies involved. Most of the time, Sparta marched on Athens, but could not get the Athenians to leave their walls and fight. So they spent time destroying the territory surrounding Athens and each side raided each other's allied islands. After some time (14 years?) both sides were exausted an peace was arranged. This was short lived, as Alcibieties arranged for a suprise attack on Syracuse, a Spartan ally that was a commercial rival. Because of people distrusting Alcibieties in Athens, he was acused of blasphemy, and ordered to return to Athens. Instead, he went to Sparta and warned them of the attack. Athen's navy was crushed in Sicily. The Etruscans supported them at this point, but arrived too late. Later, Sparta's new navy suprised the Athenian navy at Aegospotomi (or however you spell it) and finished it off. Athens was then without food, and couldn't win the war.
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
RE: the Etruscans
I can get you evidence, just give me a moment. Their aid was definately late in the campaign, but it wasn't non-existant. I'd assume Carthage is there because of their conflicts before, after, and during with Syracuse (Carthage and the Etruscans had an alliance against Syracuse).
I like that idea, but I think wonders don't all have to have complete relevence (A Battlefield Medicine Wonder is definately a good idea, as it would fit a war scenario perfectly). A Sun Tzu Wonder would work as well (Assuming Sparta doesn't start with it).
EDIT: It appears I don't need the Etruscan info, which is good because I can't find it
I'm almost positive it was on one site I know of, but I can't find it. I think I remember it was delayed for a long time since Etruria was not a unified country (It was a leage of 12 or so city-states). Eventually, the hatred of Syracuse won, and they sent ships.
I can get you evidence, just give me a moment. Their aid was definately late in the campaign, but it wasn't non-existant. I'd assume Carthage is there because of their conflicts before, after, and during with Syracuse (Carthage and the Etruscans had an alliance against Syracuse).
I like that idea, but I think wonders don't all have to have complete relevence (A Battlefield Medicine Wonder is definately a good idea, as it would fit a war scenario perfectly). A Sun Tzu Wonder would work as well (Assuming Sparta doesn't start with it).
EDIT: It appears I don't need the Etruscan info, which is good because I can't find it
I'm almost positive it was on one site I know of, but I can't find it. I think I remember it was delayed for a long time since Etruria was not a unified country (It was a leage of 12 or so city-states). Eventually, the hatred of Syracuse won, and they sent ships.
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
Amenhotep7
Spartiate
Segesta is at the western end of Sicily.
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
That's what I was about to say, NW to be exact.
Greek Stud
Prince
Has anybody heard from Greek Stud? Oh! Here I am! HAHAHA
You all have been writing a lot lately! I'm kind of disappointed in there not being much Greek diversity. If I could defend the project you are all creating. The importance of non-Greeks towards Greek nations can be assumed to be worthy of including them on the map. Historians may write all the statistics from reasearched texts, but none of us were really there. What we do know is that even the Minoans are recorded in Egypt, Nubia and Ethiopia with regular trade contact. I'd be darned if nations like Etruria, Pheonicia and Persia didn't have strong influence on this war. What we are certain of, is that Greeks have never been isolationists. They colonized the Meditterrainean in a system of seafaring trade cities. Massalia and Nikaia in the West, Naukratis in Egypt, Kyme in Lybia, on and on. During this conflict the second front was in Sicily. The Greeks were still battling the Pheonicians for Sea suppiorority.
Okay, I lay to sleep. Goodnight.
You all have been writing a lot lately! I'm kind of disappointed in there not being much Greek diversity. If I could defend the project you are all creating. The importance of non-Greeks towards Greek nations can be assumed to be worthy of including them on the map. Historians may write all the statistics from reasearched texts, but none of us were really there. What we do know is that even the Minoans are recorded in Egypt, Nubia and Ethiopia with regular trade contact. I'd be darned if nations like Etruria, Pheonicia and Persia didn't have strong influence on this war. What we are certain of, is that Greeks have never been isolationists. They colonized the Meditterrainean in a system of seafaring trade cities. Massalia and Nikaia in the West, Naukratis in Egypt, Kyme in Lybia, on and on. During this conflict the second front was in Sicily. The Greeks were still battling the Pheonicians for Sea suppiorority.
Okay, I lay to sleep. Goodnight.
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
Carthage is a Phoenician country (since all Phoenican city-states were somewhat independant). The Etruscan alliance with Carthage against Syracuse is usually reffered to as the Etrurian-Phoenician alliance.
I've been told that Carthage is mentioned twice in the Odessy (never mentioned favorably, though).
Here's what I wonder, is it possible to put a civ in more than one Locked Alliance?
I figure you would have Athens and its allies in an alliance locked into war against Sparta's allies. The Etruscans and Carthage would get a locked alliance against a Syracuse and the Italic Greeks (Assuming, of course, that Syracuse can be put in more than one alliance, or that it won't mess up the game). I think most civs shouldn't be human controlled, but Syracuse should be controllable. Playing as Syracuse, your goal would be to support Sparta, but you would have to worry about constant attacks from Carthage, which would prevent you from giving 100% support.
Just a thought.
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
Hm, I don't see playing as Syracuse would be very interesting. I think we should focus on Athens and Sparta/Peloponnesian League as the civs intended for human play.
Hm, OTOH, I might want to try out Persia. Time to teach those uppity Yauna a lesson, once and for all!
Hm, OTOH, I might want to try out Persia. Time to teach those uppity Yauna a lesson, once and for all!
Originally posted by The Last Conformist
Hm, I don't see playing as Syracuse would be very interesting. I think we should focus on Athens and Sparta/Peloponnesian League as the civs intended for human play.
Hm, OTOH, I might want to try out Persia. Time to teach those uppity Yauna a lesson, once and for all!
I for one have always had the following civs as non-playable-
-Persia
-Carthage
-Paionia
-Thrace
-Umbrians
-Delphi
-Rome
-Epirus
-Crete
- and perhaps-
-Thessaly
-Eturia
-Sicillian Greeks
-Itallic Greeks
-----
I think that Thebes and Macedon, alongside the superstars of the scenario, Athens and Sparta, shoul be playable no matter what
Amenhotep7
Spartiate
I agree with ya Xen.
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
Syracuse was in the Peleponesian League (I assume you talking about the allies of Sparta, not the allied neighbors of Sparta, right?). If your just talking about Sparta itself, or Sparta's Peleponnesian friends, I think that's a little limited
And Xen says:
I personally think Persia and Sicilian Greeks (Syracuse) should be playable, but Etruria should not. The reason is simple. Even though they joined the war, they weren't a major factor. Any history book that only has a general coverage of the war will almost certainly skip the Etruscans help with one campaign - A campaign that must have ended in failure, since Athens lost (Although I think I remembered hearing that Carthage used the battle as an oppritunity to take other Sicilian cities, even though they never went near Syracuse itself). I also think having the Etruscans as playable almost forces the focus to shift away from the Aegean. Sicily, due to being south of Italy, can enter the Aegean more easily than Sparta can.
I think the playable list would be something like this:
Athens
Sparta
Thebes
Crete
Rhodes (Not sure about this)
Sicillian Greeks
Persia
Or a list very similar to that.
I know I've asked this question before, but does the gmae end at the end of the Peleponnesian Wars, or it should it extend to the Helenistic League (against Macedon, 100 years later). Since there were many similar wars over the balance of power with city states after the war (usually between Athens, Sparta, and Thebes).
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