Pere - 001

[predesad]

Well if you want I can play an IBT now... (in about 12 hours) just do all the MM but otherwise leave it alone for DBear. Yes it is a rather detailed dotmap, though once it's done it will be static.

not having to manage it will be great, as far as an IBT I really dont care if you can get it in without delaying dbear, if you cant & want to take a look at it right before my turn do it then, i am just not up for tediousness right now, the MM on these turns seems to be take me forever.

 

[Elmarae]

Okay I have it. Will take about 30 mins to an hour.

 

[Mach]

Yikes, I must have left it in a pretty poor state then...

Oh well, I tried.

 

[Elmarae]

@Mach: No not a poor state at all. Quite admirable. It was only minor tweaking here and there to use every grassland available. My only real quibble and not much of one is Allenghey being too big, but that's easily fixed.

1500 End turn

Rushed some worker builds to drop the population where necessary, Rushed 2 Harbors.

Pressed Enter

1505
Used slaves to finish a railroad so I could move our native workers off a Mountain.

Joined Workers to Cities. Only the following cities need a little MM to get them stable after growth.

Things to Do:

1 Grumble Will grow next turn. Make the new citzen a specialist (0 Growth)
1 Toledo > Grow to 9 (5 Specialists)

That will stabilise Island 1.

Island 2:

2 Allegheny Rush 3 workers to join to 2 Zouchis. (Then use 3 Specialists)
2 Not Be > Grow to 5 (3 Specialists)
2 Soon > Grow to 5 (3 Specialists)
2 Zouchis > Grow to 11 (6 Specialists) 1 from growth and 3 workers from Allegheny
2 Another Calaris > Grow to 5 (3 Specialists)
2 Morrow > Grow to 11 (6 Specialists)
2 Tonawanda > Grow to 5 (3 Specialists)

That will stabilse Island 2.

Sorry took more than an hour. But it was fun. I need a panadol now.

DBear - UP

I left the Slaves with moves so you can decide what to do with them DBear.
And it's up to you what

 

[Mach]

Aw, shucks. At first I was just getting my feet wet with all this, so I was ignoring the 2nd isle and concentrating on the first. (Also the worker builds in the 2nd isle were going to take some time...) As I kinda got the hang of it I started on the 2nd. Anyway, yeah IIRC that's how Allegheny got too big, I was ignoring it too long. Later I realized my mistake...

Thanks for doing all that work, after 4 hours of fumbling the other day, I know what intense work it is.

 

[predesad]

do we not have any native workers on island 2 to join to 2 Zouchis, instead of rushing, or did you use them up, Elmarae, joining to other cities?

thanks for doing the extra work, it is very tedious, I know

 

[DBear]

Got it. Might not get to until tomorrow, up in 2 other SGs

 

[DBear]

0) 1505: Switch 1 Calaris to temple, so it can expand and bring the whale within our boundary. Why were all the workers merged into the colonial cities? What will we do when pollution hits the homeland? Never mind, I see the slaves. I'll just ship 'em home as the cleanup crew.

1) 1510: Carthage factory-->bank. 2 Allegheny worker-->wealth. Lep Mag court-->factory. Have no idea what 2 Allegheny was doing popping a worker, so I join him back.

2) 1515: England and Egypt sign MPP, ally vs. Rome. Germany joins the alliance. Rome looks like a goner, but who cares. Finally a game where an isolationist strategy looks like it will pay off. Learn corp, start refining. Rusaddir starts bank. By turning all taxmen to scientists, we can get refining in 7.

3) 1520: Sabratha Hoover-->factory. Hadrumetum bank-->exchange. Rush factory in Utica, Hippo, and Theveste.

4) 1525: A moment of silence as the Romans are dogpiled into oblivion. Utica factory-->exchange. Theveste factory-->exchange. Hippo factory -->exchange. Cirta bank-->factory. Nora factory-->exchange. Rush temple in 1 Calaris.

5) 1530: Oea factory-->exchange. 1 Calaris switched to Wealth. We get a message that India is starting Suffrage. If we're staying monarch, we don't need it.

6) 1535: Carthage bank-->exchange. Cadiz factory-->exchange.

7) 1540: Memphis builds Suffrage. Didn't even know they were building it, did they have a GL available? Our luxury trade deals expire. Trade the Mongols atomics for Incense, silk, furs, 1 + 44/turn. The cleanup crew I brought over from Iroquoia finally has something to do. Cadiz switched to temple for happiness.

8) 1545: Cadiz temple-->exchange. Rush temple at 1 Tingis.

9) 1550: 1 Tingis temple-->wealth. Learn refining, start steel. Bad news gang--NO OIL! India has 3 of 'em. And I'm going to leave it to the team to decide how to get it...by trade or by force.

 

[predesad]

okay, i have it & will try to work on it some tonight, but if mm is as demanding as it has been i know i wont finish until at least tomorrow night

good pace guys, its been moving really well

concerning the oil, prolly no need to take it by force

anyone have anymore thoughts about a switch to republic, it supports 3 units per size 2 city & 1 per size 1 city, i think we can keep our units low and if so would be a nice increase in commerce. the ww should not be a problem since we really need a peaceful strat anyway. the only downside as i see it is several turns of anarchy

mach -
dbear - Just done
predesad - UP
elmarae - On Deck
gunner - skipped no response

 

[predesad]

Preflight:
-trade refining to Mongols for WM, 38 G, & 17 GPT
-trade electronics to:
- India for Ivory, Fascism, WM, 4209 G, & 28 GPT (i know we dont need fascism but i thought i might as well take it)
- Egypt for 4677 G
- Babylon for 654 G & Dyes
-trade spices to Babylon for 10 GPT

-increase research to 100%, no lux needed now
-mm citizens to work all citizens on main island
-change production in all fishing villages which were building factories, our fishing villages don't need -factories: L. Minor to stock exchange, L Magna to Temple, & Rusicade to stock exchange (considering our research is at 100% & hopes to maintain 100 %, we really dont need exchanges either, but could come in handy later and there was nothing else to build without wasting shields)
-changed production in Utica form cavalry to army
-load 8 slaves in Galleons to send to India to road their extra oils so we can trade for it, who knows when they would get around to doing it?
-rush aqueduct in Sulcis
-renamed Norwich to 2 Norwich to be consistent with Iroquois Isle and to keep myself from getting confused

I - Sulcis - aqueduct - uni, Saldae - exchange - cav

1 - 1555 - renegtiate spice deals: Germany 10 gpt, Mongols 16 gpt (up from 8 & 12); rush aqueduct in Russadir

- Theveste & Hippo - exchanges - cavalry, Russadir - aqueduct - granary

2 - 1560 - rush uni in Sulcis; India connected oil on their own, buy 1 for 1 gpt; Babylon, India, & Mongols have espionage, change production in Hippo to palace to prebuild for intelligence agency

I - Carthage - exchange - Wall Street, L Magna & Nora - exchange - wealth, recall workers in route to India, Sulcis - uni - granary

3 - 1565 -

I - Rusicade - exchange - worker (at pop 12 w/ full food will grow back to 12 same turn it builds worker, use worker ot add to another city's pop), Saldae - cav - cav

4 - 1570 -

I - Oea - exchange - wealth, Theveste - cav - cav; Liz extends peace sans the 10 gpt

5 - 1575 -

I - Cadiz & L. Minor - exchange - cav, Rusicade - worker - cav; Steel researched

6 - 1580 - join worker to Rusaddir, Babylon researched Ironclads, so renegotiate coal for 53 gpt (up from 33), sell steel to: Babylon for 4014 G & 136 GPT; Mongols for Espionage, WM, 6 G, & 21 GPT; Egypt for WM, 27 G, & 14 GPT (they could have afforded more but were unwilling to pay so they must have been researching it & nearly finished), trade Atomic Theory to England for WM, 18 G, & 10 GPT, traded Industrialization to Germany for WM, 192 G, & 11 GPT; changed production in Hippo from palace to intelligence agerncy (6 turns)

changed production in several cities form cav to infantry, tanks are not far away, changed production from wealth to artillery in Oea & Nora

Combustion in 7 turns @ 90% - 17500 G & 311 GPT

7 - 1585 -

- Theveste - infantry - infantry

8 - 1590 - rush uni in Sabratha

- Mongols & Germany agree to peace; Utica - army - army, Sabratha - uni - bank, NOra & Oea - artillery - artillery, Cadiz - infantry - infantry

9 - 1595 - changfe production in Russadir from granary to artillery, a granary i snot really needed it will only grow to 10 citizens & is currently at 8

- Saldae - infantry - infantry

10 - 1600 - saved game

built infantry & artillery since we are way below unit support levels & both of those units can be upgraded, eventually if we keep producing units and reach unit support we should disband the med inf, there's not much since in upgrading them, IMO, cavs dont upgrade & tanks are soon so no since in building more of them, I thought we could load tanks into the armies when we build them, but i suppose if someone wanted they could go ahead and load cavs, for now the army is just fortified in Utica. Pentagon is available for build and should be built, however I do caution that once pentagon is built, if 4 units are loaded into an army that army cannot be loaded onto a galleon in case anyone was unaware

my thoughts are to research mass production then motorized transportation then an optional tech (amphibious or advanced flight (assuming an AI researched flight & we trade for it) the optional techs can be used as trade bait hopefully for the free tech the scientific civs (germany / babylon) would get when entering the modern age

MM was not bad after the first turn when I rearranged citizens to use fishing villages as fishing villages and to maximize the number of overall citizens to work tiles and eliminate specialists to maximize pop, other than the last turn when a tech is baout to be discovered and then scientist need to be converted to tax collectors then back to scientists the next turn

Elmarae, since you are the ICS queen, I am letting 2 morrow continue to grow because it can support 2 more specialists, i never consulted your detailed table, but i did notice that city could support more specialists if allowed to grow more, there may be other discrepancies

One final thought, it does not seem to me that the other players are trading techs for gpt very often, i highly suggest we ttry to trade each tech when it is researched for gpt if we can get some significant gpt, those civs which are behind in tech i trade to when they can afford about 10 gpt. i may be wrong here and perhaps have overlooked the trades or maybe those trades were not avialable, but i hope it is not hesistancy in the hopes of staying ahead in tech, here is the reason: the leading AI will sell their techs to the other AI and thus their economy is stronger and can research at 100% (how do you think babylon once had 14000 gold, surely they didnt do it by themselves?) if we keep trading for gpt, the AI will continually have to reduce their research rate to afford the deals and there will not be available gpt from other AI to strengthen the leader's economy (notice how babylon has ironclads now, but has not yet sold it, hopefully our trading will keep them form getting gpt from other civs) of course, in a case where a lux is going to expire in less time than the next tech will be researched (like 2-3 turns) it is prolly wise to hold off a couple turns before trading so as to use the tech to renew the lux. we will also need to watch the oil deal with india. I dont want to pay gpt to the AI for resources since that would be counter productive to our goal of maximizing our own gpt and crippling the AI economy.


oops, sorry, forgot to get a pic, combustion in 3 turns, about 18000 gold, & +300 gpt

mach - On Deck
dbear -
predesad - Just done
elmarae - UP
gunner - skipped no response

 

[Elmarae]

I'm up in another 2 SG's at the moment, so at least a day till I get to this one.

 

[Mach]

IIRC, I tried selling stuff for gpt but didn't get very far because of our rep. I could only give per-turn things to get per-turn things. I heard that one's rep can partially recover; maybe we're seeing that now.

 

[predesad]

you can always sell tech for gpt no matter what your rep, but we cannot buy tech for gpt, we also might have difficulty trying to sell a tech and a luxury at the same time so we have to use seperater deals in some instances. it's just a matter of how much the ai can afford at a given time & has to be checked every turn because there is no way of knowing when the AI has a gpt deal w/ another AI & it expires thus freeing up gpt

 

[Elmarae]

I left off listing all the builds because I did a few, mainly getting 1 Barcelona up to full status.

1 Barcelona and 1 Calaris can be left to grow to what ever size they want. Probably build commercial dock, and commerce things in 1 Calaris to take advantage of the coast, sea squares.

Here are the trades I did.

1605 AD

Sell Electronics to England for Ironclads

1615 AD
Research Combustion > Mass Production (in 6)

Babylon already has Combustion
Sell Combustion to India for Gems and 30g
Sell Combustion to Egland for 7gpt and 20g
Sell Combustion to Mongols for 18gpt and 50g

1645 AD
Research Mass Transport > Motorized Transport
Sell Motorized Transport to Mongols for Incense, Silks, Furs, 107gpt and 150g
Sell Mass Transport to Babylon for 56gpt and 160g
Sell Mass Transport to India for 35gpt and 20g

I would like to consider taking Germany down, they are behind technologically. When we get Motorised Transport and Tanks. I'd made 2 tank armies. (We will have to trade for Oil and Rubber)

The advantages of taking Germany.
resources: Oil, Rubber and Furs.
They are behind in techs. Gives us a foot hold on the mainland. More area to ICS.... just kidding.

mach - UP
dbear - On Deck
predesad -
elmarae - Just done
gunner - skipped no response

 

[Mach]

Got it. Although this one it queued up third, so I probably won't get to it until tomorrow night.

 

[DBear]

I thought we had rubber, just not oil

 

[Mach]

We do indeed have rubber.

As for Germany, I was considering gifting them up for their free tech. They are one of only two sci civs left; them and the Babs. Anyway, I think we'll launch quicker if we keep out of any more wars.

 

[predesad]

We do indeed have rubber.

As for Germany, I was considering gifting them up for their free tech. They are one of only two sci civs left; them and the Babs. Anyway, I think we'll launch quicker if we keep out of any more wars.

i agree 100%, as usual, we often seem to think alike

the only way i would want to got to war would be if we have trouble getting aluminum or uranium, even though we dont have oil, we have locke din a trade with india so as long as we can appease them (convince them not to war with us) oil should not be any concern. even the lux are not really a concern, if we are carfule and watch for the expiration of our deals, especially in the case of germany with them being behind, we can always get the lux for tech since they can rarely afford to pay the full price of the tech anyways. wars would best be fought, if there ever is one, with our armies and then only after pentagon to maximize our armies and then can only be transported with transports.

as Mach said, I also thought about gifting them to the modern age & then trade for their free tech, which is part of the reason i suggested researching one of the optional techs at the end of the industrial age, to trade that for the modern age tech, if the babs & germany get the same free tech & we have a monopoly on th eoptional tech we could get a favorable trade, either way, having one of the optional techs will help trade into the modern era.

-we should be thinking about a research path for the modern age, isolating what we need for space race

-we might consider building UN (w/ a prebuild) to keep an AI from getting a diplomatic win (wouldn't that suck after all our work to finally get on top?)

-another modern age wonder we should consider prebuild for is the one that gives free research labs in all cities (i cant remember if it is internet or the other one in which my mind has gone blank & i cant remember its name)

Elmarae - good work, especially with the trades, & also you're a warmonger and just want to fight everyone I am also a warmonger so I understand

 

[Mach]

-we should be thinking about a research path for the modern age, isolating what we need for space race

Well, recently I learned computers ought to be the first modern tech, since research labs are so important. Should we do an optional tech first? Hm. Maybe we should go modern, trade/gift the sci civs up, and see where we are. If they don't get computers, then we'll head for that; if they do get computers, then go for advanced flight for trade.

Building the UN is a fine idea; when I play I'll start a prebuild if/when the time comes.

The "free research lab" wonder is the Internet, which comes with miniaturization. So we should probably research comp --> mini --> fission...unless one of the sci civs helps us out...

This game is queued up first for tonight.

 

[Mach]

Preflight
We look good. I mm a little bit.
Our builds look pretty good.
We're getting a lot of money from the ai's, which is good, except I'd expect some to declare war on us as a result. We'll find out...
I consider selling some happy buildings, but I don't.
I renegotiate some deals for more money.
(I) zzz

T1 (1655AD)
zzz
(I) zzz

T2 (1660AD)
zzz
(I) Oil deal expires, I don't renew just yet

T3 (1665AD)
zzz
(I) So much for optional techs, the ai's come up with amph war

T4 (1670AD)
zzz
(I) We get motorized transport (tanks).
Trade it to Babs for Flight, Dyes, 201g, and 111gpt. He got Ecology.
I gift Germany up: refining, steel, atomic theory, combustion, electronics, flight, mass production, and tanks for 16gpt and WM. He also got Ecology.
Tanks to India for AmphWar, 345g, and 21gpt.
And I can't get Ecology from Germany for AmphWar, Ironclads, and all our gold. They still won't take gpt.
Start on computers in 9 @ 100% sci.

T5 (1675AD)
zzz
(I) We finish the Pentagon.

T6 (1680AD)
I buy oil from the Indians for 4495g. (They wouldn't take gpt!)
Start on a bomber fleet.
(I) zzz

T7 (1685AD)
Motorized transport to england for 76g and 25gpt.
(I) zzz

T8 (1690AD)
Start Palace in Utica as prebuild for Internet, should be done in 20 turns.
(I) zzz

T9 (1695AD)
zzz
(I) zzz

T10 (1700AD)
zzz


Ok, that's it. Our economy isn't growing anymore, we're pretty much maxed out. Please research miniaturization next, and finish the Internet, since that's the only way we really have left to increase our bpt. I would have tried for SETI, but we wouldn't gain all that much out of it, and we have only the Palace prebuild available to us right now.

Nobody's declared on us to get out of a gpt yet, which is great news. The Germans are actually polite to us now, heh.

I've been building bombers to sink ships just in case.

We're still getting over 500gpt from other civs, plus I got us another lux, so our lux rate is at 0%.

Our rep is still a shambles, which is annoying, but it's really not hampering us any.

Maybe we should use SETI as prebuild for the UN...

I don't see anything left to do in this game but research as fast as we can, prebuild SS parts, defend ourselves if necessary, trade, and hope.

Teh Save