Pere - 001

[predesad]

mach -
dbear -
predesad - just played
elmarae - up
gunner - on deck

 

[gunnerxtr]

good turns! tech race isnt looking too bad anymore!

 

[predesad]

good turns! tech race isnt looking too bad anymore!

yeah, a lot better than when we had 20 turns to go on map & it was discovered by someone else and i was sure it would get traded around.

remember this was the 1st time i got to play because i skipped my first turn and the game is not going how i would like it to. that is not necessarily bad, it will be a learning opportunity for me if it goes well, but i am / was uncomfortable with the way the game has gone and was not so much aware of it until i played this time. i am not really criticizing / complaining it is just taken a different course in style of play than what i like to do.

 

[gunnerxtr]

remember this was the 1st time i got to play because i skipped my first turn and the game is not going how i would like it to. that is not necessarily bad, it will be a learning opportunity for me if it goes well, but i am / was uncomfortable with the way the game has gone and was not so much aware of it until i played this time. i am not really criticizing / complaining it is just taken a different course in style of play than what i like to do.

hmm, well what would you have done differently? (was it research/ expansion/ exploration?)

 

[Elmarae]

Got it...

And this is what I love about SG's, not only do you learn new strategies, but you go in directions you may have never thought of or end up in a situation you would never have gotten yourself into.

 

[Mach]

Nice! I took a look at the save this morning, and we're looking good. Nice job with the mm, pred. And the trades.

I also would have done some things different -- especially the science. And I wouldn't have hooked up the iron. I'm new to SGs, and I'm finding they are sometimes difficult; sometimes I think we've come to a group decision, and then it isn't gone through with. But I agree, elm, dealing with this ever-changing situation is fun...

So I'll go with my usual Socratic thingy...
1.) We're almost done with MM. What should we research next?
2.) The more I think about it, the more I like HG. What do you guys think of starting a prebuild? Bad idea?
3.) When can we build the forbidden palace? Where shall we build it? When should we start a build on it? Shall we send a settler soon, with a worker?
4.) Does everyone understand the idea of the fishing village? Shall we all get on the same page on this, since we'll be founding some in the not-so-far future?

My answers...
1.) Get poly from Egypt, and start on Monarchy.
2.) Good idea, Mach! Prebuild somewhere now.
3.) I'm pretty sure we'll be able to build it with the number of cities we'll have on our island. Build FP on the northern coast, in the east where the plains are. Send the next settler there, and start prebuild asap.
4.) I do.

Edit: Suggestion: there's a town in the middle of our island building a regular horseman, change that to a worker...

 

[DBear]

Whew, looks like I was right in not going for Philo.

 

[predesad]

Whew, looks like I was right in not going for Philo.

yeah, after the min run at writing and other civs having it when before you it was a good decision, i would have still made a play for phil, but i would have been wrong. MM will be much better for trades IF it doesn't become widespread before we get it.

hmm, well what would you have done differently? (was it research/ expansion/ exploration?)

i would rather not rehash some decisions which were made by various players, i was sick and didn't give much input or even play during the first round while others did but forth the effort. if i start naming off specific things i would have done differently i am afraid i might offend someone or it will look like i am complaining. i agree with what Elmarae said about this making SGs fun and helping with learning new strategies / techniques. i am in 2 SGs and these are my first.

1.) We're almost done with MM. What should we research next?
2.) The more I think about it, the more I like HG. What do you guys think of starting a prebuild? Bad idea?
3.) When can we build the forbidden palace? Where shall we build it? When should we start a build on it? Shall we send a settler soon, with a worker?
4.) Does everyone understand the idea of the fishing village? Shall we all get on the same page on this, since we'll be founding some in the not-so-far future?

my answers may sound a lot like yours

1) a) get poly and start on monarchy
b) realizing that most AI's who have poly will immediately pursue monarchy, research currency which is almost last on the AI list of priorities, however trading for monarchy will not be fun

2) although i recently suggested going for the GL, i don't usually build wonders in the AA, however, our unique position it might be good to go for some, what are the actual benefits of HG and what is the cost, then put that in terms of turns and weigh the cost / benefit issue to see if it is worth it at this point (i am ignorant of the cost / benefit because i never build this wonder, i think it is either 1 or 2 content citizens in all cities)

3) i may look this up in the editor later, but we can build the FP when the # of cities we have founded = 1/2 the optimal # of cities, IIRC. I am not certain what the optimal # of cities is for large worlds. i am not certain of what the actual location should be in regards to dotmaps, but i think it shold be somewhere in the vicinity of those fish on the east coast so that those fishing village cities (which will have good growth in addition to good commerce) will have lower corruption. But, I wonder if it would benefit much to build on the lower part of Spain when we take that over to perhaps make those cities semi productive, but the distance to spain may make corruption rampant, just something to think about.

4)i think to be safe if someone has a link to a good fishing village setup to post it, i know this has been discussed in various threads but i am unsure if someone has ever wrote an actual strategy article on it. our fishing villages need to be isolated for the purpose they should serve and not deviate from that purpose, IMHO. Our fishing villages will either make us or break us, IMHO.

 

[gunnerxtr]

1)i say poly>>> Monarchy (AI are sticklers on govt trades)
2)not sure about the wonders... i normally dont build them in the AA...
3)I normally build FP wherever i can get it built fastest, but if we absolutely need the lower corruption in the fishing villages, we should spend the extra turns on the FP
4)ive never read a thread on it really, but if it is the same as what i use (coastal town, build harbor, concentrate food and commerce) then yeah i know what they are

 

[Mach]

if i start naming off specific things i would have done differently i am afraid i might offend someone

Just for the record, if I make a mistake, please point it out. I don't take offense!

I think I should explain myself more...

2.) The GL costs 300 shields, gives +3 happiness in that city and +1 happiness in all other friendly cities, and it lasts until steam power. I figure it this way: our population size will be determined by happiness, since we will have no luxes for awhile, and we're only likely to have about 2 mp's available per city. The GL will allow us one more population point per city! I think we'll be able to hit pop 6 cities with only 20% lux rate if we get the GL...

3.) I'm with gunner, I like to build the FP early. Spain would be the optimal place for it, but I don't think we should wait that long. (If we were militaristic, I would consider waiting for a leader to build it in Spain, but we're not.) So, I like this site:

It'll give help to the cow towns, and even some help to Spain.

4.) I agree with pred; fishing villages will be crucial. A third of our cities will be villages! So we should grow them efficiently. Here's how I grow them, in order (improvements should be rushed when economical):

• If corrupt, harbor.
• If corrupt, high food & courthouse. Rush!
• High shields; granary
• If it doesn't yet have one, harbor
• High food to size 6
• High shields again; Market
• Library
• Aqueduct
• High food again forever
• Bank
• When at max size, sell the granary
• Skim the occasional worker

High shields = work forests or mined hills
High food = work the coasts and any other +2 food squares

 

[predesad]

2.) The GL costs 300 shields, gives +3 happiness in that city and +1 happiness in all other friendly cities, and it lasts until steam power. I figure it this way: our population size will be determined by happiness, since we will have no luxes for awhile, and we're only likely to have about 2 mp's available per city. The GL will allow us one more population point per city! I think we'll be able to hit pop 6 cities with only 20% lux rate if we get the GL...

3.) I'm with gunner, I like to build the FP early. Spain would be the optimal place for it, but I don't think we should wait that long. (If we were militaristic, I would consider waiting for a leader to build it in Spain, but we're not.)

you say GL, but i assume you mean HG, okay, 300 shields, a city with 5 shields = 60 turns, 6 shields, 50 turns nets us 1 happy citizen (actually i think content) in all cities + 3 in that city. IF we build it, put it in one of those river cities. It does not expire until steam power so it does have a long shelf life. i think we can work up 3 MP's per city when needed in monarchy, one citizen born content, HG gives one that would make size 5 cities w/ no happiness problems which means we can get to size 7 which is crucial for unit support, with about 20% luxury rate. it is inevitable we will have to build temples in order to grow and cathedals will help a lot otherwise the lux rate will kill us and will be ineffective for some cities due to corruption, hopefully we can import some luxuries when we can trade overseas. It would be nice to steal some spices from Iroquois, but we cannot even trade with that continent until astronomy. it would also be nice to disocver some other lux in unexplored territory in Spain / Iroquois. anyway, i got off the subject, the HG might be a good idea since we wont have any lux available for awhile nor will cities be building temples soon, BUT i highly reeccomend it on the river, that way 3 MPs @ monarchy, one born content, 3 content from HG = size 7 city no unhappiness. mach, i understand your hesitation to assume more than 2 mps / city, but with our situation we MUST do what we can to get 3 per city as they grow, IMHO, since this is the most efficient way to deal with unhappiness given our situation.

about the FP, optimal number of cities for a large world is 28, if I am correct about needing 1/2 that number to build the FP, & i am pretty sure i am, that means we need 14 cities before we can build it. We are already gearing up for war, i think it may very well be possible to have a city in Spain before we get 14 cities built on our island or at least be close to that point, but it might be better to build the FP on our continent to net a better overall core.

 

[gunnerxtr]

Just for the record, if I make a mistake, please point it out. I don't take offense!

same here, i joined this game to learn not just to play how i always play and get the "nice turns!" even if they arent, just be nice about it but seriously, its just a game and i will not be heartbroken if you tell me something i did wrong, i just wont make that mistake again

 

[predesad]

well, it's not necessarily that mistakes were made, i would point them out if i thought that were the case, it is just a different direction like i said earlier.

 

[Mach]

I agree, pred, I think we will have a Spanish city soon enough...but it'll be pretty corrupt. I'm talking about starting a prebuild now; the FP is what, 200 shields? Personally, I don't want to trust in getting a leader from the Spanish war...cause it might not happen.

 

[gunnerxtr]

is spain all filled up? could we get a settler up there? just as a toehold?

 

[predesad]

so, Mach, you are wanting to start a prebuild for HG and a prebuild in anothre city for FP. while it seems we are destined to gear up for an invasion of spain or iroquois, is all that feasible from a production standpoint, speicfically since i recommend taking one of our most productive cities (river cities) out of production for the HG if we build it?

 

[Mach]

Well, the FP is something we're going to want in any case. The city I'm suggesting we build it in will be semi-corrupt, so it wouldn't be doing much otherwise. If you prefer, we could build it in the most northern city, in the desert...an otherwise useless city. This seems to me to be the most efficient way to get the FP, unless we're willing to hope for a leader. If we wait awhile, and don't get a leader, then we'll either get a very late FP (bad for our economy), or we'll be forced to build it quickly in a low-corruption city (thus reducing its effects).

Now for the HG, you're right -- prebuilding for the HG will delay our invasion of Spain. But IMO it'll save us in the long term. Look at it this way: temples cost 60 shields. We're gonna want temples, you wrote that earlier. For the price of 5 temples, we get the effect of a temple in every city...for an age.

 

[predesad]

Well, the FP is something we're going to want in any case. The city I'm suggesting we build it in will be semi-corrupt, so it wouldn't be doing much otherwise. If you prefer, we could build it in the most northern city, in the desert...an otherwise useless city. This seems to me to be the most efficient way to get the FP, unless we're willing to hope for a leader. If we wait awhile, and don't get a leader, then we'll either get a very late FP (bad for our economy), or we'll be forced to build it quickly in a low-corruption city (thus reducing its effects).

Now for the HG, you're right -- prebuilding for the HG will delay our invasion of Spain. But IMO it'll save us in the long term. Look at it this way: temples cost 60 shields. We're gonna want temples, you wrote that earlier. For the price of 5 temples, we get the effect of a temple in every city...for an age.

I was not necessarily arguing against the HG, again, but pointing out that I do not think prebuilding for both of these wonders simultaneously is a good idea. After all, that semi corrupt city could be left unconnected so we could get some warriors for MP (am I correect in thinking that city has not actually been founded yet?), AND i think we should first build a courthouse in the city where we choose to build the FP, thus speeding up the FP build and prolly getting it as fast as if we had initially prebuilt for it. Since we are not militaristic, I would not hope for a leader.

 

[predesad]

is spain all filled up? could we get a settler up there? just as a toehold?

sorry, i meant to resond to this before, but i forgot, i dont think spain is filled up, but i also dont want to build a city there, it might end up inviting war before we want because they would have the potential to then invade us, and their territory is crap anyway, it will even take our industrial strength workers a lot of time to clear out that mess.

Elmarae: just checking up on you, haven't heard from you regarding the next turn, you are, of course, still within the 72 hours so no big rush if you need more time

 

[gunnerxtr]

yeah no big rush at all, i am busy this week, and i might need a skip as it is...