Persian Immortals
- Thread starter WildFire
- Start date
why would you want a spearman as a 1/3/1? it already seems that they win too much of the time even when they are a 2 defense. Your horseman is nice and the hoplite is a lot better. Plus it would be even easier to run over civ's in the ancient ages if you had that powerful of horseman and immortals that each have to movement points. Wouldn't that make the immortal unit even cheaper to use? And the legion your way is just like an immortal but it has an extra defend.
These three special units are way to advanced for their time but you make it even only if you play Greece. Everyone else you could just run over, unless you don't want a golden age so early
4.3.1 Legion *
4.2.2 Immortal *
2.3.1 Hoplite
:die:
These three special units are way to advanced for their time but you make it even only if you play Greece. Everyone else you could just run over, unless you don't want a golden age so early
4.3.1 Legion *
4.2.2 Immortal *
2.3.1 Hoplite
:die:
Mad Bomber
Commander
Killer:
a 4.3.1 Legion? give them the firepower of a knight in 2000BC. Thats what I wanted to get away from! With the immortals of 4.2.2 would be worse giving them the firepower and movement of the knight,. Might be ok if you mod the Knight but then you would have to mod all of those UU's too then you would have to modify the cavalry, and those UUs, finally you would have to modify the musketman, tank, rifleman, infantry, mech infantry.....
If you want to modify all of those units then your mod could be ok, but otherwise one of the UU's would either become too weak or too powerful.
instead change the horse to 3.1.2 keep the sword at 3.2.1 give the immortal an extra move 3.2.2 an the legion an extra defence (as it is now) 3.3.1 The Mounted warrior would become a 3.1.3 that is the best way that I can think of to balance the early game. You could also change the Chariot to 2.1.2. (it was better than a warrior, right?) Agree with extra attack to Hoplite
a 4.3.1 Legion? give them the firepower of a knight in 2000BC. Thats what I wanted to get away from! With the immortals of 4.2.2 would be worse giving them the firepower and movement of the knight,. Might be ok if you mod the Knight but then you would have to mod all of those UU's too then you would have to modify the cavalry, and those UUs, finally you would have to modify the musketman, tank, rifleman, infantry, mech infantry.....
If you want to modify all of those units then your mod could be ok, but otherwise one of the UU's would either become too weak or too powerful.
instead change the horse to 3.1.2 keep the sword at 3.2.1 give the immortal an extra move 3.2.2 an the legion an extra defence (as it is now) 3.3.1 The Mounted warrior would become a 3.1.3 that is the best way that I can think of to balance the early game. You could also change the Chariot to 2.1.2. (it was better than a warrior, right?) Agree with extra attack to Hoplite
LionQ
Noble
Wow, this is awesome. Thanx! I'm gonna edit my scenario.....
LionQ
Noble
What about this?:
Warrior=1.1.1
Spearman=1.3.1
Swordsman=3.2.1
Legion=4.3.1
Horseman=2.1.2
Immortal=4.2.2
Hoplite=2.3.1
Impi=2.2.2
Archer=2.1.1
Chariot=3.1.2 The "tank" of the AncientEra was the Chariot, not the Horseman. And the Horseman should not make the Chariot obsolete.
Pikeman=1.4.1
Longbowman=4.2.1
MusketMan=2.4.1
Knight=5.3.2
Rifleman=4.6.1
Cavalry=6.3.3
JaguarWarrior=1.1.2
Bowman=3.2.1
WarChariot=4.1.2
Rider=5.3.3
MountedWarrior=3.1.2
Musketeer=3.5.1
Samurai=5.4.2
WarElephant=4.3.2 Must be replaced to the AncientEra.
Cossack=6.4.3
Warrior=1.1.1
Spearman=1.3.1
Swordsman=3.2.1
Legion=4.3.1
Horseman=2.1.2
Immortal=4.2.2
Hoplite=2.3.1
Impi=2.2.2
Archer=2.1.1
Chariot=3.1.2 The "tank" of the AncientEra was the Chariot, not the Horseman. And the Horseman should not make the Chariot obsolete.
Pikeman=1.4.1
Longbowman=4.2.1
MusketMan=2.4.1
Knight=5.3.2
Rifleman=4.6.1
Cavalry=6.3.3
JaguarWarrior=1.1.2
Bowman=3.2.1
WarChariot=4.1.2
Rider=5.3.3
MountedWarrior=3.1.2
Musketeer=3.5.1
Samurai=5.4.2
WarElephant=4.3.2 Must be replaced to the AncientEra.
Cossack=6.4.3
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
Well, perhaps it should not in-game, but it did historically. In late 2nd millennium BC (think Egyptian New Kingdom and Middle Assyria) the chariot was King of the battlefield. Then during the the last millennium BC it was gradually replaced by cavalry units. Already before the Mid-East was taken over by the Persians, whose main strength was cavalry (despite the Civ III Imortals and the scythed chariots of Arbela fame), horsemen had largely replaced charioteers in the Assyrian and Babylonian armies. By Roman times the chariot was just for show and sports, while ancient-style horsemen continued to be in-vogue till the advent of the heavily armoured and stirup-equipped knight.
Your suggestion would restore the unhistorical weirdity in Civ II where chariots replaced horsemen.
LionQ
Noble
Yes, you're right! But how are we gonna get that in the game? Let's see....
How about a Horseman of 4.1.2 as Lt. Killer said earlier? That's good I think. Then the Horseman is stronger then the Chariot, but the Chariot is still a good attacking unit. Not to mention if you are Egypt....
How about a Horseman of 4.1.2 as Lt. Killer said earlier? That's good I think. Then the Horseman is stronger then the Chariot, but the Chariot is still a good attacking unit. Not to mention if you are Egypt....
warpstorm
Yumbo? Yumbo!
PTW will skew this some
Medieval Infantry: 4/2/1 40 shields: comes with: Feudalism (which most likely Persia will "upgrade" to)
Maybe I've had incredibly bad luck with iron, but I often find in my games that it is in the most inconvenient spots (one a mountain 10 tiles into the jungle, just over the border of the strongest player, on an island I can see but not get to, etc., etc., etc.).
Lt. 'Killer' M.
Deity
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2001
- Messages
- 7,475
NoNoNo!!!! This was only values for ancient ages, later times would have to be changed accordingly.... What I want is essentially a larger gap between offensive and defensive troops - that's all.
I'm currrently trying this stuff out....
I'm currrently trying this stuff out....
Nox McChaos
Chieftain
That reminds me about Cossack.
Here are the stats that I think are much better and not that unbalancing...
Original Cossack
6.4.3.
New Cossack
8.4.4. + ability to build forts.
Here are the stats that I think are much better and not that unbalancing...
Original Cossack
6.4.3.
New Cossack
8.4.4. + ability to build forts.
Mad Bomber
Commander
Killer M:
I have learned my lesson, should have never brought up the idea to mod ancient units, as it seems there are some that do not think about play balance when it comes to modding. Would like to hear your ideas on modding in the ancient world, I just hope that its balanced.
I have learned my lesson, should have never brought up the idea to mod ancient units, as it seems there are some that do not think about play balance when it comes to modding. Would like to hear your ideas on modding in the ancient world, I just hope that its balanced.
god_money
Prince
Keep the ideas coming,...
I'd love to have the Roman Legion be as powerful as History
would have it,... as well as have the Greeks have something
a bit more menacing than a 1/3/1 defender in the Hoplites.
But keep in mind when reassigning stats units like the Iroquois'
Mounted Warrior (3/1/2) and the Egyptian War Chariot (2/1/2).
Change would be welcomed, but not if it further unbalances the
game.
I'd love to have the Roman Legion be as powerful as History
would have it,... as well as have the Greeks have something
a bit more menacing than a 1/3/1 defender in the Hoplites.
But keep in mind when reassigning stats units like the Iroquois'
Mounted Warrior (3/1/2) and the Egyptian War Chariot (2/1/2).
Change would be welcomed, but not if it further unbalances the
game.
Lt. 'Killer' M.
Deity
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2001
- Messages
- 7,475
MadBomber: i will post my mod once I'm through with playtesting....
Evincar
Iron works is a legend!!
Cough cough...have you tested those values?? maybe it's just my impressions, but I see several problems on them:
1) archers 2.1.1 while spears 3.1.1?? that will make the archer quite sucky won't it?
2) Pikeman 1.4.1 while musket still 2.4.1: Why upgrade pikeman to muskets then? it's much easier and more effective to keep using pikes up to rifles...I'd even consider about not hooking any saltpeter just to produce the much cheaper pikes!
3) Giving Knights an extra attack point scares me to death, let alone Samurais and Riders...
4) The new "superspearmen" will make Jag warriors become obsolete pretty fast, I'm afraid...
5) Haven't you thought about palying with HP bonus? It works OK for me in naval units (Giving BB more HP to stop them from being so vulnerable, for example)
1) archers 2.1.1 while spears 3.1.1?? that will make the archer quite sucky won't it?
2) Pikeman 1.4.1 while musket still 2.4.1: Why upgrade pikeman to muskets then? it's much easier and more effective to keep using pikes up to rifles...I'd even consider about not hooking any saltpeter just to produce the much cheaper pikes!
3) Giving Knights an extra attack point scares me to death, let alone Samurais and Riders...
4) The new "superspearmen" will make Jag warriors become obsolete pretty fast, I'm afraid...
5) Haven't you thought about palying with HP bonus? It works OK for me in naval units (Giving BB more HP to stop them from being so vulnerable, for example)
Mad Bomber
Commander
Evincar:
That was exactly what I was refering to:
A spearman with a defense of 3? A chariot with an attack of 3, but the horseman only with 2? Its hard to mod all of the units needed to mod and still keep it balanced, I use HP bonuses also (a 2 hp bonus per era change after ancient) and it seems to work well.
The one that got me the most was the Cossack 8.4.4 AND the ability to build forts. (does someone play the ruskies a little too much?)
That was exactly what I was refering to:
A spearman with a defense of 3? A chariot with an attack of 3, but the horseman only with 2? Its hard to mod all of the units needed to mod and still keep it balanced, I use HP bonuses also (a 2 hp bonus per era change after ancient) and it seems to work well.
The one that got me the most was the Cossack 8.4.4 AND the ability to build forts. (does someone play the ruskies a little too much?)
Evincar
Iron works is a legend!!
Yeah, hadn't noticed the cossack thing. Imagine a Cossack Army, attack 8 and 4 attacks per turn 
?? 8 attack is fearsome enough, but 4 moves would make them move so fast they'll make your head spin 
?? 8 attack is fearsome enough, but 4 moves would make them move so fast they'll make your head spin
Mad Bomber
Commander
Yeah, I noticed the 4 move but the implication of it didn't hit me until now, a horse faster than a M1A1. Not to mention that it would give a new definition of Blitzkreig. How much more of those wonderful units would you need. Game over by 1000AD. Easy.
Nox McChaos
Chieftain
My bad, I knew I typoed something.
7.4.4
7.4.4
LionQ
Noble
1) Well, why don't we make the Archer 3.1.1
2) Well, why don't we give the MusketMan 2.5.1 and the Musketeer 3.5.1
3) With Musketeers and Pikeman with 4 and 5 defense, you don't have to be afraid.
4) Well, it will make the "normal" Warrior pretty stupid too. So so has to be JagWarrior of the Aztecs.
5)...
LionQ
Noble
I said later the Horseman has to be 4.1.2.
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