PH S21E02: There is a Title

[pholkhero]

Oz hasn't really played much, and I'm, well, me, and we're going to attempt to play Old World.

We'll leave some spots open if anyone has a mind to join us. If you're not sure what an SG is, feel free to leave a msg or go to the civ subforums.

Spoiler Deviant Mind SG Etiquette Rules :

Alpha: The quality of your report outweighs the quality of your play. We’'re here to have fun, and, of course, winning is fun, but losing in style is preferable to a boring win.

Bravo: Reports should be detailed, with plenty of screen shots and player commentary, explanations, musings, etc; a bare-bones/no commentary, auto-log dump will not suffice. Shots of the F9 screens and overview shots of the empire are nice too, once in a while.

Charlie: Punctuality rocks! “24/48” means post a "got it" within 24 hours of when the last save was posted, and play within 48 hours of that ‘got it.’ Waiting 47 hours to ask for a skip is lame. Punk out two times in a row, and you'’ll be dropped from the roster. Skips and swaps are fine, but try to let us know sooner, rather than later.

Delta: Major game decisions (war/peace declarations, religion swaps, city placement, etc) should be arrived at via group consensus.

1. If the team disagrees with you, either argue your case better, or do it their way. Do NOT just blow them off and do it your way because it's your turn.
2. However, if there’s no consensus and you'’re up, do it your way and explain why. Conversely, if someone else is up, don't whine when they do it their way.
3. Similarly, overruling techs or city builds is rude and should be done via consensus, barring an emergency.
4. In extraordinary situations, sometimes an opportunity presents itself that the group didn't foresee. If the consequences of it are great, players should stop, and refer the question to the group.

Echo: Be Excellent to Each Other. Being a better player does not give you the right to belittle anyone else or their play. Other people are going to disagree with you on major decisions; get used to the idea, and play nice. If not, take your ball and go home.

Foxtrot: Thread spam is good. We’re here to play in a friendly environment. Trash talking, poking fun, gentle ribbing, virtual noogies, and generally horsing around are all encouraged. However, don’t be jerk.

Golf: Automate sparingly.
1. Workers should almost never be automated, except perhaps late-game or building a trade network. However, if you have to, set your game options to “disallow automated worker forest chopping” and “keep previous improvements.”
2. Use of the “Emphasis” buttons is fine, but let the group know and explain your reasoning (specialization is a major game decision). If you prevent growth in a city, let the group know and remind them to take it off. Do NOT let the governor select build orders.
3. Sending units on go-to routes that last beyond your set is acceptable only if they’re heading for a rally point or if you otherwise inform your teammates.

Hotel: NEVER fortify Great People. Is it so hard to push the spacebar 15 times??

India: Sign spamming is rude. Signs can be helpful reminders, but too many signs makes them easily ignored. Once a sign is no longer valid, delete it. [The only exception to this are city specialization signs.]

Not all still apply to OW, but you get the gist.

Random Leader
The Good difficulty ('noble')
Medium Seaside Map
Victory: Any
Variant Rules: None, actually.


Roster
pholkhero
ozbenno
OPEN
OPEN
OPEN

Our Start:

hatty is a Builder so she can add urban tiles to cities (to build more urban improvements), multiple workers can build an imp and -50% prod time for workers.

Also, Egypt:

Spoiler :

start w+400 stone (good for building wonders early)
all cities get +50% bonus food from farms on rivers and -25% to identical adjacent improvements (so, farm our rivers, but not next to each other)


starting techs:
ironmaking: unlocks warrior
stonecutting: unllocks fort, quarry
labor force: roads; new law: slavery vs freedom

gods:
ra: +.5 orders; +20% for adj farms
osiris: +2 civics; dbl w adj mt or volcano
isis: +5hp heal for idle units
neith: new ranged units: +1 level; +20% adj camps


families
ramesside (riders: +2 shield, cities always connected, mounted units start w saddleborn)
saite (landowners: +2 growth, -50%rural specialist prod time; +2 culture/crop resource, can buy tiles)
amarna (clerics: -1 discontent/turn; can build urban imp on sand; monasteries + temples +20% output, -50% disciple production time)
thutmosid (sages: +2 civics; +1 beaker/specialist; -20% urban specialist cost)

UUs
light chariot
kushiite Cavalry

[a lot of info, i know, but it'll make more sense later on, and will be handy to have here for a reference, i think]

notice the urban tiles? we can only settle on them, and, depending on which one we choose, our initial borders and workable tiles will vary.

I'm not exactly sure how the SG will break down for sets and turn lengths, so we'll just have to play it by ear.

initially, i'm thinking we grab the greatest number of special resources, and found the Saite Family Seat as our capital.

I don't generally like to found a military city as my capital, but as my second city, adn I think the Saite's extra growth will help us if we want to have it pump out settlers and workers in the early game since we can double up workers on improvements...could be good to get some quarries up fast and build multiple wonders in the early game.

I'm going to pause before play the opening set to get feedback, signups, questions, etc

anyone can and should feel free to chime in. welcome

 

[jguy100]

SG is where we all take turns playing, correct? How does save file hand off work - just going to email it around? I know the save file has some user info in it (such as email) as well as some startup verification - hopefully things work fine!

I’m a lower level/skill player but I’d love to join if you’d have me.

I agree on your city analysis. I generally found my first city as a settler pump and my second city as a military pump.

 

[PiR]

I agree on your city analysis. I generally found my first city as a settler pump and my second city as a military pump.

Same

 

[Dale]

I'd keep the second lavender and elephants out of the borders and repeat harvest both of them for culture and money boosts. Other than that, I agree.

 

[Ozbenno]

Right checking in. Hope we have more luck with Egypt than our last SG.

I know virtually nothing about Old World so some explaining will be helpful.

jguy100 welcome aboard!!!

 

[pholkhero]

and repeat harvest both of them for culture and money boosts.

harvesting resources more is definitely something i need to work on so will try to remember to keep them out of the borders. (also, the "remembering" is also something I need to work on.)

@jguy100 welcome! an SG is, indeed, that. we can just post the saves here on the site, and you can download it from here. i do believe Oz and I did a test of a save, and it went well, but not sure if i'm that's right.

also, for now, you may need to use win+G windows game menu to take screenshots. you can use print screen, but if you have multiple monitors, it captures all of them in my case so i use the windows way.

and, we've got two open spots still as well, unless those are also indirect signups above. playing in about 12 hours, i probably can't lose that fast. we'll see how it goes.

oh, this is deity and raging barbs and aggressive ai vs shaka, monty and napoleon on a team, too

 

[jguy100]

As long as we beeline for Giant Death Robots, we'll be fine!

Sounds like fun. To throw a random number out, perhaps sets of 5 years to start?

 

[Ozbenno]

As long as we beeline for Giant Death Robots, we'll be fine!

GIANT DEATH ROBOTS!!!!!!!!

This sounds like my kind of game.....

 

[pholkhero]

I don't want to say I have inside info, but you *may* see the Triple-Death-Robot-Alliance of Shaka, Monty and Nap on the Old World expansion -- Not-Quite-As-Old-But-Still-Way-Long-Ago World.

So, here's a couple things at first:

Note the Undo button! so nice. so, so nice. Also, to highlight or turn on resources, which, thank you for finally adding it in for older eyes. Your maps are so nice, and the icons blends so well, it IS a bit hard to see what's what at first.

Turn 1
I moved 1 SW to loop in that lower marble and keep the resources free to harvest. After settling, your settler turns into 3 units: a worker, a scout and a warrior. I thought for a bit about where to send our worker first, and opted for here:

I liked the farm for food, but also that it was only one order away, and also got us some wood from the chop, a resource I struggle to keep up with and chopping helps (doubtless, the intention as its historically accurate). Also notice that it takes an order per turn while they're working. I thought we could keep farms to the east, quarries to the north and south and city stuff to our west. More on that later.

Tech draw (another great touch/innovation for 4x games)

Opted for trapping as it got us both the slinger and the camp improvement, both of which we could use a bit more immediately than the others.

Turn 2

I forgot to mention that we've got two kids already. I guess from our previous marriage, as we're single, and looking to mingle (see Hatty's bumble and tinder profile). Later, we'll get courtiers that could tutor our kids, but for now, they're shiftless layabouts that stare their phones all dinner, and won't tell us how their english presentation went.

The game agrees:

Chose Commerce mainly to aim for the Builder archetype. Their special bonus of multiple workers per improvement could aid us in growing our economy quickly in the early game. Especially if anything happens to the queen.

First nearby city site (again, kudos on deciding to make city sites a resource):

Turn 3:
I popped that goody hut south of Waset:

Chose the top option, thinking that'll have the most long term impact for our empire. Didn't think we need the legitmacy just yet (though, it's always good to stockpile for the sake of orders), and not sure we could do anything with trapping in the next few turns so didn't want the beakers.

Another site:

And we swipe left on . . .

Ahmose the Foolish. Just more positives than negatives really. that loss of 24 gpt w menkaure is a bit steep. Also, yes, my cuting-and-pasting skills will get better w reuse. it's muscle atrophy.

Neferure sneaks away:

Prepping the heir for a long and prosperous rule (cough, cough).

It's also about time I but a general on our warrior, and find my mother-in-law:

I mean, ok. I guess most arguments end with "yes, mother Ahmose."

Turn 4

I figured it might be nice to "explore" and show-off the Exploring option for a bit, esp w the Spare. And, we also explored the map more:

What's that, a picture of the actual village would be nicer than the tutorial window, you bloob?! Hmmm...

More potential:

Turn 5
Our husband is Gracious:

That's exactly what i just said.

Another event to help the Future of Egypt:

A hut by the Vandals yielded this:

Kept relations good for now, barring any discussion about aggression or not.


And I do indeed settle on 5 turns this time around for several reasons.
1) Our worker finished the farm and is building a net. HOWEVER, we can build a wonder, and we should.
Two options: Oracle for extra tech card each draw on the hill west of Waset or Hanging Gardens for more pop growth, synergy w our family trait. I like that latter i think. We should, however, choose one and get it started in waset.
2) our settler is done next turn, and we can found a new city, preferably Military ones.

Just judging by what we can see, i like the SE site. Has some hills, is connected to our city by the river, and is close to the vandals *just in case*. downside: not many resources that i can see. thoughts?

3) i don't think there's a 3.

Future thoughts:
Wonder?
A Second city to crank out some military, slinger or two, warrior or 3 maybe? Waset go with 2 or 3 workers for now to get some infrastructure up early. Or we could go for another settler or two to grab what we can right nearby.
Techs: anything infra- related, esp for quarries if we don't it yet.
note i never went back for our resources with our scout so we should harvest all around us.

finally, oz, you can cycle your "to do" list/units each turn with the number keys.
1=events
2=civilian units
3=military
4=scout
5=city builds
6=end turn
in the beginning, i tend to move the scout(s) before any military unless needed. just something to keep in mind.

 

[pholkhero]

Roster:
pholkhero >> just played
Ozbenno >> UP NOW
jguy100 >> on deck
OPEN? >>
OPEN? >>

For set length, i still think play what you feel is best. i think they'll be some natural stopping points every handful of turns or so.

And the save:

 

[PiR]

Nice. I'm in.

 

[Ozbenno]

Welcome PiR.

I see this and will play tomorrow, maybe 5 turns again (or less). Look forward to a trip down Grey Fox River.

All tips are more than welcome as I'm a complete novice and will probably so something really

 

[jguy100]

Is that some sand near the SW city site? If so, that would let us build the Pyramids. As Egypt, the style points for hometown wonder definitely gets my vote.

From a purely economic perspective, Hanging Guardians is one of my favorite wonders. The extra growth is really nice.

Oz, the biggest learning point for me in OW is the need to kowtow early game, even on easier levels of difficulty. By default the AI start with an average of 3 cities, so you're playing a game of catch up. Nothing wrong with paying a little tribute to keep peace if someone makes a demand. Otherwise, relax and have fun! The game goes down like a smooth wine.

 

[Dale]

I won't be on the roster, but happy to be one of Pharaoh's advisors.

I would suggest NW city. Riders family seat, doesn't need a connection (Family trait). Both gems and gold within reach early (put a miner on gems and it'll grab gold).

The other big question needing discussing, is family 3. Which really comes down to, do we want happiness and discontent control, or science?

 

[Dale]

As for wonder, Hanging Gardens in the capital. Landowners, extra growth, with nets and fisherman == faster settler pump.

 

[pholkhero]

Welcome PiR to the Roster, and Dale to the peanut gallery, er, Esteemed Advisory Council! we'll get you in the next one where we can only succeed as the Spare each generation.

Still one spot OPEN! we cruised to a great loss on our last SG, so get in now while the getting's good!

will probably so something really

found one in the wild

I would suggest NW city. Riders family seat, doesn't need a connection (Family trait). Both gems and gold within reach early (put a miner on gems and it'll grab gold).

The other big question needing discussing, is family 3. Which really comes down to, do we want happiness and discontent control, or science?

oh, that changes my calculation w not having to be connected, and, i think, tips the balance. i should read my own posts about family boni. the proximity to the vandals alone isn't enough to settle that SE site as a second city as both NW and SE will be connected no matter what if we're going

with this only being "the Good" level, idk if we'll need to worry hugely about happiness and discontent, but i'm not 100% on that. i'm always a fan of beakers.

so, i think we seem to be all in on the Gardens, and 1.6 votes for NW site.

and as i type this, i see you're on and i wonder, are you typing your report now?

 

[Ozbenno]

So I started a new turn and got this

Wicker men always make me think of Edward Woodward and this joke

Q: Why does Edward Woodward have so many d's in his name
A: Because otherwise he would be Ewar Woowar

Probably sounds better when you say it

Anyway stay classy Thutmose...

I love ordering people around.....

Wasn't too sure what to build after the settler in the capital and so built a worker, it is just 2 years when trapping will be finished and can build another settler after that. I know in Civ IV, a priority was improving your lands asap, assume it is the same here.

My daughter is leaving home in January to go to Uni in another city. I'm not expecting many letters though.

So she graduated Commerce School and the only jobs going are in the army or as a spy. Mustn't have been a good Commerce School

Spymaster it is. No idea if this is right or not but seems better from a role playing point of view...

And the decisions just keep coming. I free the slaves as it gives science and see above...

Someone mentioned that second city should be military focused so here we go

In founding the city we have met a rival

Q: What's the difference between barbarians and vandals
A: Not a joke, I have no idea

New tech researching

alert.....

I didn't realise we already had a worker when I built one. Good news is we have two now

I'm slightly sad the wicker man thing was just a rumour so let him stay longer to make it so...

Also, the other option gave Hatty negative traits

So Thutmose became insane after the last choice (of course he did) and we now have this. I picked the four cities option.

I decide to end my turn here as someone really needs to get in and clear up all the

I didn't pick new production for the capital because, well it didn't go so well last time

Good luck jguy100, you'll need it

 

[Ozbenno]

Roster:
pholkhero >>
Ozbenno >> just "played"
jguy100 >> UP NOW
PiR >> on deck
OPEN? >>

 

[pholkhero]

nice first set! first, i imagined thutmose as a woodsy hippie, but now that he's insane, i imagine him to be the so-called Rattagast from the hobbit movies, talking to mice and such. let's hope we don't need him to run egypt

i think teh ambition was teh easy choice there. And barbarians are just like civ barbs: unallied, and angry. vandals (and other named tribes) function more like city-states essentially thtat have multiple cities. both grow after a set number of turns, so you can decide if you want to sack an encampment now when you've only got 2 units and they have 2, or they may level up in five turns and be more of a threat.

your tech draw seems like a poor one to be the second one in the game, but Hamlet's are good. mo money, mo money, mo money. (that's from the 90s, which, apparently, are IN right now.)

do we get more workers before another settler to double up some improvements, maybe get some quarries rolling for another wonder? or maybe 3rd city first, then workers?

plus, military.

 

[Ozbenno]

plus, military.

Forgot to mention, the second city is building a militia