PH17: pholkhero and the Holy Grail
- Thread starter pholkhero
- Start date
Whosit
Entropic Knight
All right I have to give up on this one. Sorry guys but RL is making my civving very difficult.
Sorry to hear that, but I know how it goes. Funny thing, that so-called "reality."
I can try to take a crack at this sometime over the weekend, but I might not be entirely reliable, so if anyone else wants to call dibs, by all means do so.
pholkhero
Deviant Mind
sux...
even if we could get 10 turns, i will play again
even if we could get 10 turns, i will play again
Since I was the first one chickening out here, I'll play some turns to get it on the road again... However, I think we're not quite ready for war yet. We need some SERIOUS drafting first, IMO. Drafting infantry is 2 pop unfortunately, but I think we should do anything to seriously beef up our army. If not it looks like suicide to me... The GA may come in handy to churn out some more siege.
Ok?
Ok?
Whosit
Entropic Knight
Go for it. But don't wait too long, since an Immortal AI still has an awful production bonus over us. What about going to war now, and using drafted Infantry to either supplement our defense or to form a group of reinforcements to go where needed?
pholkhero
Deviant Mind
i think i might agree with nocho and whosit. the AI boni will surely kill us the longer we wait, but i do think we should wait a bit of time. perhaps GA to crank out seige and/or grow pop as fast as possible and go to war in about 2-3 sets...
How about this roster, too?
nocho > up now
Whosit > on deck
tally
pholk
How about this roster, too?
nocho > up now
Whosit > on deck
tally
pholk
Russian Winter - Prelude to War (1800-1818)
Well, the set can best be summarized with a picture of our military before:
and after the set:
Actually the before-pic was after the first round of drafting, so we netted +34 infantry and +10 cannons, basically.
Launched the GA at the beginning of the set, there's still one turn left but I don't think we want to change any civics. We couldn't see KK's power when the set started so after consulting the EP screen did 2 turns with 40% EP slider, as I miscalculated and missed a few EPs after the 1st turn to see the demographics. Anyway, at turn 2 we were at 0.7 power with KK, as I left the set at 1.0!
This came at a cost of course and that is our population, that has basically been converted into infantry. Apart from our core Moscow/St Pete/Novgorod I've been drafting all other cities where possible and hence they are nearly all in the size 5-6 range right now... 
Well, that's not the correct smily, but I don't think there' a draft smily, is there?
Too bad of our pop, but we needed military and I think we have it now. I think the time to attack is now. Whosit always gets all the fun!
The 3 AIs just got Assembly Line themselves so can now start on Infantry as well, haven't seen any yet though (but didn't look too closely either).
Here's our stacks:
The 2 western stacks should make quick work at least of the 3 nearest KK cities, including his capital. The eastern stack, ideally handles Shanghai and Beijing. The major thing to watch is the KK SoD which has been stationary in Barcelona where we have an airship still. Try to look where it's going, ideally it will encounter the eastern stack somewhere in the open field near Nanjing. However, careful, if the eastern stack is ambushed we're toast. So maybe play it save there and concentrate especially on destroying KK's core in the west. I left some infantry in the border cities down south. Also careful there with any surprise attacks.
And KEEP ON DRAFTING where possible. Easy to forget during war, but those units are very valuable...
Well, the set can best be summarized with a picture of our military before:
and after the set:
Actually the before-pic was after the first round of drafting, so we netted +34 infantry and +10 cannons, basically.
Launched the GA at the beginning of the set, there's still one turn left but I don't think we want to change any civics. We couldn't see KK's power when the set started so after consulting the EP screen did 2 turns with 40% EP slider, as I miscalculated and missed a few EPs after the 1st turn to see the demographics. Anyway, at turn 2 we were at 0.7 power with KK, as I left the set at 1.0!
This came at a cost of course and that is our population, that has basically been converted into infantry. Apart from our core Moscow/St Pete/Novgorod I've been drafting all other cities where possible and hence they are nearly all in the size 5-6 range right now... Well, that's not the correct smily, but I don't think there' a draft smily, is there? Too bad of our pop, but we needed military and I think we have it now. I think the time to attack is now. Whosit always gets all the fun!
The 3 AIs just got Assembly Line themselves so can now start on Infantry as well, haven't seen any yet though (but didn't look too closely either).Here's our stacks:
The 2 western stacks should make quick work at least of the 3 nearest KK cities, including his capital. The eastern stack, ideally handles Shanghai and Beijing. The major thing to watch is the KK SoD which has been stationary in Barcelona where we have an airship still. Try to look where it's going, ideally it will encounter the eastern stack somewhere in the open field near Nanjing. However, careful, if the eastern stack is ambushed we're toast. So maybe play it save there and concentrate especially on destroying KK's core in the west. I left some infantry in the border cities down south. Also careful there with any surprise attacks.
And KEEP ON DRAFTING where possible. Easy to forget during war, but those units are very valuable...
Whosit
Entropic Knight
Hmm. Maybe I'll pick this one up today instead of SAM-03. Heh heh. Worrisome that the AI have Assembly line now. Even if they don't have Infantry visible, they can always use their insane discounts to upgrade all of their troops. Still, hopefully we have enough cannon to handle that, but I imagine that we'll lose quite a bit on suicide runs. I'll take a look at the save in a little while and come up with a more coherent strategy, though I recall Pholk suggesting that we use our eastern forces to go for Khan and generally ignore China.
Whosit
Entropic Knight
OK, I've had a look, and things don't look good. Khan has spammed Airships like no tomorrow. Because we have no way to counter those, they will probably chew up our stacks as we advance, but there's not much to do about that. If we had railroad, we could build Machine Guns to try and counter them, but we don't, so we can't. Still, it's now or never.
My plan:
We have enough cash for me to fully upgrade our stacks as well as all the Riflemen in that worthless Chinese town that's in revolt. I will also withdraw our Airships to our territory so that they can support our stacks. I will also change Cannon builds with no hammers committed to them to Airships. Why? Because they have range, and new Cannons cannot enter the front until we have secured the area or have escorts. I'll also draft where able each turn, excepting core cities and anything on the verge of rioting.
The two Western stacks will head towards the nearest Mongolian cities. Our eastern stack will link up with the troops in the Chinese city (I plan to abandon the city) and head for Beijing. There are a lot of troops there, so my hope is to break China's military back (securing the Statue of Liberty wouldn't be a bad deal, either). I would then proceed into Mongolia if the opportunity is still available.
Regarding the Western stacks: I am undecided, but I may simply raze Khan's cities. Because we need to stay on the offensive, leaving troops behind to secure these cities will just slow us down. I may capture one or two, though, to serve as bases and staging points and places for us to heal. Since it's gotten late, I probably won't play tonight, so comments are welcome.
My plan:
We have enough cash for me to fully upgrade our stacks as well as all the Riflemen in that worthless Chinese town that's in revolt. I will also withdraw our Airships to our territory so that they can support our stacks. I will also change Cannon builds with no hammers committed to them to Airships. Why? Because they have range, and new Cannons cannot enter the front until we have secured the area or have escorts. I'll also draft where able each turn, excepting core cities and anything on the verge of rioting.
The two Western stacks will head towards the nearest Mongolian cities. Our eastern stack will link up with the troops in the Chinese city (I plan to abandon the city) and head for Beijing. There are a lot of troops there, so my hope is to break China's military back (securing the Statue of Liberty wouldn't be a bad deal, either). I would then proceed into Mongolia if the opportunity is still available.
Regarding the Western stacks: I am undecided, but I may simply raze Khan's cities. Because we need to stay on the offensive, leaving troops behind to secure these cities will just slow us down. I may capture one or two, though, to serve as bases and staging points and places for us to heal. Since it's gotten late, I probably won't play tonight, so comments are welcome.
^ Well, airships may be a pain, but there are not that many either (11 visible). We really have no choice but to advance asap, I think. Indeed, mass upgrade all rifles on the front, should have done that earlier. So maybe attack next turn.
If it wouldn't be for the annoying partizan event I'd agree with razing. But now KK will probably get like 4 infantry free per city razed... If we can hold on at least to those three nearest cities, it would be sweet. At least they are close to home so are easier to reinforce.
If it wouldn't be for the annoying partizan event I'd agree with razing. But now KK will probably get like 4 infantry free per city razed... If we can hold on at least to those three nearest cities, it would be sweet. At least they are close to home so are easier to reinforce.
Whosit
Entropic Knight
Oh, right, forgot about that partisans. Well, I'll avoid razing the closest cities. I guess I can use the draft fodder to reinforce and hold our captures.
pholkhero
Deviant Mind
nice set, nocho...good use of the draft...
how's this smiley?
alright, whosit, the game is in your hands
how's this smiley?
alright, whosit, the game is in your hands
Whosit
Entropic Knight
alright, whosit, the game is in your hands
I suppose there's no point in reminding everyone that each time I've played a military set that we've gone down in flames somehow?
If at first I displayed foolhardy aggression, and if second I was overly cautious, perhaps things will balance out this time. I believe I will be able to play tonight, but if I don't finish it, I should get it tomorrow evening.
Whosit
Entropic Knight
Live from the front:
Strike Force White Lightning has been completely annihilated. After a brief victory, in which it captured Turfan, the Mongolian army arrived in full force. After a long and bloody battle, tens of thousands of soldiers lay dead on each side, but the Mongols were successful in wiping out the incursion.
Strike Force Black Hammer is scattered and broken. Learning from the disaster at Turfan, they razed Beshbalik to the ground. Having been peppered by Airship bombs for many turns, those with move left retreated to higher ground, leaving their comrades and artillery support behind to perish. A number of Infantry are still alive, but they are trapped behind enemy lines and have dug into the hill for dear life.
Strike Force Big One, having abandoned Nanjing to the Chinese, is at the gates of Shanghai. They have been harassed by Airships as well, but should be able to take/raze the city. Preference for razing, given the size and power of the Mongol army.
The Khan has penetrated Russian territory. Enemy Cavalry are marauding around Moscow virtually unopposed due to the thinness of the defenses. Rostov barely managed to hold back a light assault. Defenses have been boosted, but it may not be enough.
This is Whosit, live from the front. Soldiers have taken to winter quarters, but hostilities should resume tomorrow evening.
---------
I know that we've been busy putting an army together, but I think that the fact that we have no Factories and no (or few) Levees where available is really going to be the death of us. Using a pre-industrial economy to try and produce an industrial army just isn't going to work, long-term.
The fight isn't over, but our chances of victory are slim to none. Our chances of survival? Maybe not much better. But I will fight, and make those Mongol bastards pay for every tile.
Strike Force White Lightning has been completely annihilated. After a brief victory, in which it captured Turfan, the Mongolian army arrived in full force. After a long and bloody battle, tens of thousands of soldiers lay dead on each side, but the Mongols were successful in wiping out the incursion.
Strike Force Black Hammer is scattered and broken. Learning from the disaster at Turfan, they razed Beshbalik to the ground. Having been peppered by Airship bombs for many turns, those with move left retreated to higher ground, leaving their comrades and artillery support behind to perish. A number of Infantry are still alive, but they are trapped behind enemy lines and have dug into the hill for dear life.
Strike Force Big One, having abandoned Nanjing to the Chinese, is at the gates of Shanghai. They have been harassed by Airships as well, but should be able to take/raze the city. Preference for razing, given the size and power of the Mongol army.
The Khan has penetrated Russian territory. Enemy Cavalry are marauding around Moscow virtually unopposed due to the thinness of the defenses. Rostov barely managed to hold back a light assault. Defenses have been boosted, but it may not be enough.
This is Whosit, live from the front. Soldiers have taken to winter quarters, but hostilities should resume tomorrow evening.
---------
I know that we've been busy putting an army together, but I think that the fact that we have no Factories and no (or few) Levees where available is really going to be the death of us. Using a pre-industrial economy to try and produce an industrial army just isn't going to work, long-term.
The fight isn't over, but our chances of victory are slim to none. Our chances of survival? Maybe not much better. But I will fight, and make those Mongol bastards pay for every tile.
It sounds like game over, well, sorry to hear that, but at least we tried.
Slightly suprised our stacks got completely annihilated while starting par on power, though. Still, I guess from the moment the Chinese capped to KK instead of to us, this was going to be an uphill battle. We could always try again, maybe.
Whosit
Entropic Knight
It sounds like game over, well, sorry to hear that, but at least we tried.
Slightly suprised our stacks got completely annihilated while starting par on power, though. Still, I guess from the moment the Chinese capped to KK instead of to us, this was going to be an uphill battle. We could always try again, maybe.
It's not really a surprise, when you think about it. On the one hand, KK has railroads meaning that we are at his mercy when inside his territory. Second, our power rating is composed of more than just our units, and takes a lot of things into combination. We did not attack with our "full power," whereas KK was at liberty to bring to bear nearly the whole capacity of his army. Also, because we had upgraded so many units to Infantry, we had fewer units that counted as more. We killed our weight in Mongol units, but there are just so many.
My goal now is to just cause as much damage as possible to Khan and hope to last long enough to score peace. Space Race probably isn't really an option, though, since we're falling behind in tech.
pholkhero
Deviant Mind
dang and double dang...it looks like we ARE in the crapper...not for nothing (well actually, for nothing, but . . .) I played as well, and also got annhilated. khan has artillery which is killer on us. i think kicking over our king is the best solution here for us.
wondering where we went wrong ~ perhaps by waiting too long on the inca we killed ourselves for the late game?? or not getting QSH to vassal to us?? idk...
wondering where we went wrong ~ perhaps by waiting too long on the inca we killed ourselves for the late game?? or not getting QSH to vassal to us?? idk...
Whosit
Entropic Knight
I probably need to take a chunk of the blame there. Remember: I botched the war against China, failing to take Beijing when I had a chance. I waited an extra turn (I think I was hoping that Khan would suicide against Qin's troops) but Qin capitulated to Khan instead. If we had taken Beijing, I think the ball game would have been different, especially since we probably could have gotten Qin to surrender to us.
Anyway, the night has gotten away from me. I do want to play a few more turns, but if I can't manage that by tomorrow, I'll just post my version of the save.
Immortal is brutal, man.
(Or maybe we're just in the Monty Python version of the Quest for the Holy Grail.)
(Maybe we should be England fighting the French.)
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