Phillosophical/Industrious

Should the Phi/Ind combo be in the game

  • Yes , It would the game more INTERESTING!

    Votes: 70 52.2%
  • No , It's NOT FAIR !

    Votes: 34 25.4%
  • This trait combo is HORRIBLE !

    Votes: 4 3.0%
  • I don't care .

    Votes: 26 19.4%

  • Total voters
    134

Kao'chai

Newbie in Modding
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
481
Location
Manila
Sorry if this has been posted . But what if there was a leader of this trait ? Who would it be ? Is it still balanced ?

If you think clearly , while you are building wonders in a faster speed , you get a GP in a faster rate , then a cultural victory is not far away . So should these trait combo be in the game .
 
Yeah! This is like the best combo for my playing style. Now I just need to learn to mod myself in a leader with these traits and hey presto!
 
It ought to be for Lincoln, as I have said many times. These traits suit him perfectly, and it would be balanced by the fact that America has the latest UU and UB.
 
There was just a 7 pages thread about the same topic :lol:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=244451

If I really had to choose an existing leader with those traits, it would be Francis the 1st (François 1er).
He is the one who brought all the renaissance artists to France, Leonardo da Vinci, Michelangelo, Raphael, Titien etc...
He also launched the building of the biggest Loire Castles : Chambord, Amboise, Blois. He is also the one who launched the restauration of the Louvre (completed later under Louis XIV)
 
I am the only one voting I don't care :)
Seriously, it would be okay, I always just random opponents and my own civ, so getting it would be good, but not better than, say, Asoka. If I'm Ind/Phi, I have to build lots of wonders and run specialists to make it pay, that...
a) is not effective on all maps,
b) would make me wonderwhore and forget my military.
Fin, Spi, Cre, Org, Pro and Agg have more all-around uses.
I mean, who plays a game without
  • Working tiles with 2:commerce:?
  • Changing civics?
  • Needing a border-pop?
  • Having to pay for civics (And the cheap courthouses rocks aswell)
  • Using archers or gunpowder units to defend cities?
  • Using melee or gunpowder units?
 
It would have synergy, to be sure, but I'm not sure if it would be overpowered.

The leader would be unparalleled at cultural victory though. Actually, I'm kind of glad that there isn't a Phi/Ind leader because that means I have to choose between philosophical and industrious for a cultural victory, while trying for a culture victory with anybody but the Phi/Ind leader would make me feel like playing with a handicap.
 
I don't think it would be nearly as unbalancing as people say. Industrious is simply not that good, it's alright, but I wouldn't put it in the top tier traits. Phil/Fin or Fin/Org are both a lot better.
 
I don't think it would be nearly as unbalancing as people say. Industrious is simply not that good, it's alright, but I wouldn't put it in the top tier traits. Phil/Fin or Fin/Org are both a lot better.

Industrious can be pretty amazing when you manage to get yourself a tech lead, as it can ensure you're able to complete most of the wonders just as others are getting to them, or if you're tied, it means you're cranking them out a couple turns before others. For that reason, I find FDR and Huayna both are quite excellent at wonder production, as their secondary traits help them keep up tech-wise by producing extra commerce or diminishing maintenance costs. FDR is a wonder-building beast if he can manage to get to bureaucracy and metal-working early - cheap forge from industrious + industrious bonus + bureaucracy = +125% production on wonders in your capital city. Bureaucracy isn't nearly so expensive for him because he's organized and that 125% bonus is before you consider the chance that he's managed to snag a resource that gives him another +100% on the wonder completion because he can afford the larger empire with his cheaper courthouses and reduced civics costs.
 
Yes, but wonders aren't the be-all-end-all like they were in some of the other civ games. A lot of them are ho-hum. Many more are very situational. There are only a handful that are really tempting.
 
Yes, but wonders aren't the be-all-end-all like they were in some of the other civ games. A lot of them are ho-hum. Many more are very situational. There are only a handful that are really tempting.

Cumulatively, they can be quite powerful. Even assuming someone maxed out on the religious buildings and completed the Apostolic Palace, Spiral Minaret, Sistine Chapel, and University of Sankore, that's pretty powerful. Each religious building would then offer +5 culture, +2 gold (not commerce, gold), +2 beakers, +2 hammers. Not to mention the other extremely good wonders like the Parthenon, Pyramids, etc.
 
I don't care. I will live with or without it.
 
I feel like PHI/IND should be okay now, given the AI changes in BTS that tend to cramp a pure builder strategy. IMHO Pericles would be the obvious choice for this combo since so many of the ancient wonders were produced by the Greeks (SoZ, Parthenon, Oracle, GL, Great Lighthouse, Colossus, arguably ToA and MoM). Plus, if any civ is going to have an easier time with a culture victory it should be the Greeks given the domination of Hellenistic culture during antiquity...hmm, I like this, I might just have to mod this in...
 
I feel like PHI/IND should be okay now, given the AI changes in BTS that tend to cramp a pure builder strategy. IMHO Pericles would be the obvious choice for this combo since so many of the ancient wonders were produced by the Greeks (SoZ, Parthenon, Oracle, GL, Great Lighthouse, Colossus, arguably ToA and MoM). Plus, if any civ is going to have an easier time with a culture victory it should be the Greeks given the domination of Hellenistic culture during antiquity...hmm, I like this, I might just have to mod this in...
Pericles would be a horrible choice. The combination of UU, UB, and starting techs would probably make Greece extremely strong. Fishing isn't so bad, but Hunting is far too strong of a starting tech to allow with a powerful trait combination. Phalanxes are pretty good, and it would quickly give Greece some big advantages that this combo does not need.
 
It ought to be for Lincoln, as I have said many times. These traits suit him perfectly, and it would be balanced by the fact that America has the latest UU and UB.

Yes, I think that's a good point there. If not Lincoln, perhaps another leader of a civilization that has late and/or feeble UU and UB?
 
It ought to be for Lincoln, as I have said many times. These traits suit him perfectly, and it would be balanced by the fact that America has the latest UU and UB.

I don't see Lincoln as Industrious, and Russia has a later UB.

If not Lincoln, perhaps another leader of a civilization that has late and/or feeble UU and UB?

Japan? Thier UU sucks (which is sad because Samurai are cool) and thier UB is possible the worst in the game.
 
I always figured this was as forbidden as Agg/Cha. Look how that turned out. :)

Lincoln struck me as getting the Protective trait, for some reason, although I guess the combinations were taken by other leaders.
 
I don't see Lincoln as Industrious, and Russia has a later UB.



Japan? Thier UU sucks (which is sad because Samurai are cool) and thier UB is possible the worst in the game.
How can an upgraded maceman suck?
 
I actually liked the Japanese UU and UB, but I like to play a more balanced leader (one who has at least one "peacetime" trait). I didn't have a bad game the two times I played Japan, though.
 
I've changed Ghandi to Phi/Ind as I like my peaceful AI's to be builder nuts and it hasn't changed him very much to play against honestly.

I do plan on trying it eventually but haven't got around to it yet. I'm sure it's more of a player advantage then a AI one.
 
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