Swein Forkbeard
Nintendo Fan
Yeah. Why not Meiji?
BTW, I'm vacationing in Williamsburg now.
BTW, I'm vacationing in Williamsburg now.
Phillosophical/Industrious
- Thread starter Kao'chai
- Start date
Diamondeye
So Happy I Could Die
I actually don't see why not? It would be a huge advantage when wonderspamming, but on the other hand - You'd be lacking in military. If you find PHI/IND overpowered, consider FIN/anything...?
Nope. Creative/Charismatic and Organized/Protective are both lacking as well. 52 leaders with 55 possible trait combos.
@Diamondeye: Financial is often talked up, but it's not brokenly strong. I'd say the Dutch really need a nerfing though.
@Kao'chai: Japan's UU is excellent--the first strikes on a melee unit, where you also get the Aggressive Combat I promotion for free? That's great! They even are better off against the crossbows because you can give them Cover out the gate and those first strikes also take away the Crossbow's first strikes. I will admit I care for their UB less now due to the pollution in the Industrial Age, but I built Shale Plants like crazy in Warlords. Japan's UU and UB are fine and balanced.
I can't believe how overrated Industrious is on these forums. I am far more concerned about Fin/Org (Darius) and Fin/Phi (Elizabeth) than I am about Fin/Ind (H. Capac).
Swein Forkbeard
Nintendo Fan
Antilogic, I don't get how samurai are a good UU. Knights are a maceman's worst enemy, and first strikes won't help with that. Additionally, they requires IRON (versus iron OR copper), which some people on the forums have reported them being Japan and not having Iron while having Copper, which means they would be able to build macemen with any other civ. Therefore, people blame the samurais' requirements to completely ruin their game.
So what if they still have a counter? Is your definition of a good UU the praetorian?
I'm saying they gain advantages against all other melee units and one of their counters, a crossbow. Yes, they still have a weakness. If you don't want weakness in your UU, just play Rome. And, you can conquer a source of iron or discover it from mines, and it can be in your starting radius. Honestly, it's a small trade-off.
I'm saying they gain advantages against all other melee units and one of their counters, a crossbow. Yes, they still have a weakness. If you don't want weakness in your UU, just play Rome. And, you can conquer a source of iron or discover it from mines, and it can be in your starting radius. Honestly, it's a small trade-off.
Swein Forkbeard
Nintendo Fan
No, but it's a unit that isn't just good for the same purpose as the unit it replaces.
No, but it's a unit that isn't just good for the same purpose as the unit it replaces.
What? The extra first strikes and City Raider promotions give it an incredible chance of taking cities, or at least causing more damage to the defending longbows before dying. If longbows have more first strikes or city garrison, then your maces might not even damage them before dying. However, the first strikes the Samurai receive negate that, and give them a chance of causing damage early in the fight. Requiring only iron is part of the UU; there are several other UUs that require specific resources, and some that don't require any at all (that being their unique advantage).
Samurai are much more effective for attacking and taking cities, and are better against other maces, pikes, and crossbows. Therefore, they are better than the unit they replace.
cybrxkhan
Asian Xwedodah
Leaders that jump to mind:
- Taizong
- Meiji (yes, he could work)
- Le Loi or Quang Truong for Vietnam (now thats only if Vietnam ever gets in
)
- Akbar
- Taizong
- Meiji (yes, he could work)
- Le Loi or Quang Truong for Vietnam (now thats only if Vietnam ever gets in
)- Akbar
Leaders that jump to mind:
- Taizong
- Meiji (yes, he could work)
- Le Loi or Quang Truong for Vietnam (now thats only if Vietnam ever gets in
- Akbar
Vietnam is a stretch. Definitely in the last expansion with Poland.
As in, a probably user-made online "expansion".
cybrxkhan
Asian Xwedodah
Other possible leaders:
- Louis XIV
- one of the Ptolemies (for Egypt)
- Sejong (maybe not that much...)
- Kublai Khan
- Suleiman
- Louis XIV
- one of the Ptolemies (for Egypt)
- Sejong (maybe not that much...)
- Kublai Khan
- Suleiman
Gaius Octavius
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2006
- Messages
- 4,016
I've said it before, and I shall it again, and again, and again...
LINCOLN!
Or Roosevelt, if you wish.
Either would work, since both had deep philosophical beliefs about freedom, and industry won the war for America / the Union in both cases.
LINCOLN!
Or Roosevelt, if you wish.
Either would work, since both had deep philosophical beliefs about freedom, and industry won the war for America / the Union in both cases.
Gaius Octavius
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2006
- Messages
- 4,016
Unless they were to add Theodore Roosevelt (which was actually considered at one point - look in your art folder) it would be for FDR. Expansive or Imperialistic might better suit Teddy, since he did much to make America an international powerhouse and was a champion of the early conservation movement. (The health bonus would be quite appropriate.)
For Louis ,Kublai and Suleiman , I think their traits are god enough.But I do agree with a Ptolemy leader and Sejong .
Then it is settled let's make a new Leader for these traits , or replace a existing leader's not so good traits with this powerful traits . But that replaced traits got to go somewhere , right . For Lincoln , where wil Cha/Phi go .
I figured Charismatic/Imperialistic for Teddy. Think of Charismatic as a "bombastic" kind of trait, and it really fits him.
On industry winning the wars for America...then you want the Organized trait for its double production factories. The idea of "wonder production" works for ancient civilizations like Egypt, but not as well for an "industrializing" America.
I actively looked for this combination when I started the game, but now I'm not sure this would be a good idea.
At lower levels of play, these traits would dominate all others due to casual players' love for excessive wonder building. At higher levels, the combination might be balanced (when building every wonder isn't feasible/advisable), but many players would conclude that
1) one leader is far stronger than any other
2) higher-level play isn't for them since even the 'best' approach doesn't work.
and therefore miss out on a lot of fun and variety. If it's a strong option at higher levels as well (I think it would be decent but not necessarily dominant, depending on other characteristics like starting techs und uniques) this preconception would never be disproven.
At lower levels of play, these traits would dominate all others due to casual players' love for excessive wonder building. At higher levels, the combination might be balanced (when building every wonder isn't feasible/advisable), but many players would conclude that
1) one leader is far stronger than any other
2) higher-level play isn't for them since even the 'best' approach doesn't work.
and therefore miss out on a lot of fun and variety. If it's a strong option at higher levels as well (I think it would be decent but not necessarily dominant, depending on other characteristics like starting techs und uniques) this preconception would never be disproven.
I started this thread in the beyond the sword forum, and I will say, that I have tested this trait combo a lot with the Romans, just to see how far I could abuse great leader growth. On noble, it's not overpowered. I can tell you that much. What people seem to be complaining about is getting tons of great engineers. Fairly early on, you can get the pyramids, hanging garden, national epic and the parthenon all built, with the parthenon in a seperate city so you can have a better chance of great engineer growth, and you can get a forge in their early too. Combined with pacifism and a forum, you could make this your engineer producing city, but you won't get many other typs of great people, which may not matter to you. In order to lay the foundation down for this rediculous 5 building/1 civic combo, you really need to put a lot of effort into it. I seriously hope you're not trying to build a massive army, because it won't happen early if this is your goal. Also, getting all the techs for this, it's all over the board. So you could be spending a lot of time researching lower era techs. Now, I havn't played this combo in over a month, and I've developed some better strategies recently that might make it better for me. I might try it again. My personal opinion, only in lower levels, this is a top tier combo. It might even be top tier in multiplayer, if they don't catch on to you. As previous posters have said, it wouldn't be that strong in the higher levels. I think it would be perfectly acceptable as an American or Japanese leader trait. I urge everyone to try the combo with Rome on a difficulty level that gives you a challenge, and just see exactly how not over powered it really is.
