Philosophical/Industrious

[L4zXX0r]

Courthouses are handy but unless your going for spying or confusism Currency is beter, that extra trade route adds at least one gold per city, and maintainence costs are usually 2-3 gold at that point, the free trade route is as good so you can build more military or markets, which are beter than courthouses.
I understand how Org works, I just dont find it a very usefull trait, your right it adds up a lot late game, but the time you need every ounce of power you can get is early game, and I find its a trait that just doesent help with that. Same reason I dont play protective often, its a powerfull trait, but it really doesent shine for me till post gunpowder. I guess Org COULD be a good trait, but Fin will make you much more right from the get go, Char will let you support a bigger pop early on, Phi usually starts to help fairly early, Spi saves vital early turns, Cre helps define boarders. Org/Fin just doesent seem like a powerhouse.

I'm going to disagree about organized here. Firstly, having a built in courthouse effect is strong. It means much more rapid expansion, without the loss of scientific output. Adding a courthouse to that, is VERY powerful. It mostly shows when you expand quickly and have a decent sized army. I play mostly on noble, but I'm betting the effects are more apparent on harder difficulty levels.

 

[The_Reckoning]

There's a little anti-synergy in there, though. If you're using engis to complete wonders, you're not taking advantage of industrious. Apart from the later wonders where engis just add X hammers.

I think it'd be fine if the UU/B wasn't useful.

 

[Swein Forkbeard]

Well I think he meant "clearly stronger." Since he says, "clearly stronger," not unbalanced. As for arguing semantics, I work a graveyard shift. I have nothing better to do in the middle of the night when all is well and quiet.

Just to tell you, I have no knowledge of internet gaming, so you're going to have to help me here. And I don't play Civ4 on weekdays (I'm really busy with school and other things!).

 

[Tlalynet]

I'm going to disagree about organized here. Firstly, having a built in courthouse effect is strong. It means much more rapid expansion, without the loss of scientific output. Adding a courthouse to that, is VERY powerful. It mostly shows when you expand quickly and have a decent sized army. I play mostly on noble, but I'm betting the effects are more apparent on harder difficulty levels.

I play Monarch, I ditched courthouse emphisis at Prince. I double Checked, Running 8 cites I had maintanence of about 3.75-4.25 per city, a courthouse then saves 2 gold per turn per city. When deciding, hmm, do I want to teck to CoL and spend 120 (or even 60) hammers on courthouses everywhere to get the cost reduction, or should I reserch Currency for about the same price and get an instant +1-2 GPC just for founding on the coast or having a road, ill take the currency. Courthouses are fine improvements and all, but if its money you need, go for money. Strategic Markets in well built cities can more than pay maintenence by themselves, Currency is a much more valuble tech. If your doing an Espianoge economy I could see its use, but Fin is still much beter.

 

[apenpaap]

When I wanted to try a cultural victory on prince, I figured it would be the most useful traits, and then discovered there was no leader with them :-( , probably because a cultural victory would be too easy with them.

 

[Airefuego]

A greek leader could be Phi / Ind: that Civ built Parthenon, Colossus, Zeus, Maussollos and produced a shed-load of GPs.

Otherwise, a Renaissance Italian leader (Gregory V of Rome? or better yet, the De Medicis of Florence).

 

[Refar]

Quit talking about it, mod it in, try.

 

[AfterShafter]

You know, truth be told, I'd rather have Org/Pro in the game on someone I like. Pontiac of the Native Americans would work.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I still say these trait would fit Solomon best, if an Israel civ were ever added.

 

[azzaman333]

I still reckon Phi/Ind would just be an average trait, nothing special...

It'd be more a crutch on lower levels, and almost a disadvantage on higher levels.

 

[Swein Forkbeard]

Gordon Freeman!
or
Samus Aran!
or
Link!
or
Cloud!
or
Leon S. Kennedy!
or
Princess Zelda!
or
Hello, sir!

 

[NintendoTogepi]

I would love playing a Philosophical/Industrious OCC

How can I edit Lincoln to make him Philosophical/Industrious?

 

[one2tieyourshoe]

I wouldn't have a problem with the combo. This game isn't competitive enough where having something unbalancing ruins the game. It's not like a buff to crypt fiends in Warcraft 3 where it affects tournament play. There is no big money tournament play for Civ 4. Or a buff to a major rifle or energy weapon in a FPS.

People complain about praetorians all the time, and yet it's only received one direct nerf. Not to mention players either self-nerf or self-buff anyways or play on a handicap due to various reasons. People even play Boudica with Rome just to feel the abuse.

I see no reason to not allow the combo. That being said, it definitely would be a strong combo, and Firaxis should give it to a leader on a weak civ and starting tech combo.

Are you speaking English?

Maybe you're possessed.

I need someone to find a Bible, start at Corinthians and don't stop reading until I tell you! I NEED AN OLD PRIEST AND A YOUNG PRIEST!

 

[CoZe]

I edited ramesses and made him phi/ind. It makes a great synergy in the beginning phases of the game (Rush the stonehenge, and you have a UB in every city/ 2 priests in every city wo the need for temples) with phi, its a GP factory ! I lose the first two religions (because of rushing stonehenge), but it's possible to get all the rest. However, I haven't been able to win a single game if I'm not going for cultural ... (monarch level)

 

[IronicBuddha]

Put Ind/Phi in for Spain, in BtS they have nothing really going for them anymore, although they never really did.

 

[lovetramy]

just test with a Phil leader in WB

 

[Catan_Settler]

Uhh.. Maybe try the trait combo, not giving yourself a pop 23 city with modern age buildings in 4000 BC....

 

[apenpaap]

Yeah. If I would want to show Aggresive/Charismatic is overpowered, and I would do it by giving myself 100 modern armors in 4000 BC, I wouldn't really make any point, would I?

 

[Molybdeus]

The advantage to Philosophical isn't that you get more great people (although you do,) it's that you get them faster. This means that you get engineers more quickly after building the pyramids, which allows to you use them to instantly build another wonder faster than you normally would, which in turn allows you to more quickly generate great people, and so on. Those who claim this isn't overpowered need to attempt to create the cascade effect themselves.

I can understand the other side of the argument, though, since it is no more ridiculous than Quechuas. That doesn't mean Phi/Ind is OK, though. It means Quechuas need to be altered slightly so you can't win the game with them alone.

 

[lovetramy]

you wrong . Phil make you have more GP . Why , because you have only 500 turn , so double the speed ofc mean more GP ,only not much though .