[GS] Phoenicia Discussion Thread

[bite]

Okay, after reading through every post in this thread so far I think the Phoenicians will actually be a very interesting civ to play.

They have a bonus set that I think a experienced player will have a lot of fun manipulating the loyalty bonuses around the map, I also think just the base updates to settlers and trade make it a strong civ for anyone

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I'm extremely jealous. My city has all the best ethnic food...except Middle Eastern. For that we have a mediocre Egyptian café that doesn't even serve fresh food. Middle Eastern food is the best. I've joked before that God knew precisely where to incarnate to get the best food.

Let me put in a vote for the Punjab in northwest India. Even Anthony Bourdain, who was the world's premier Carnivore, admitted that he could be a vegetarian in that area and enjoy it. - And we have two such restaurants in my area and I know the family that runs both of them!

 

[Ziad]

Can I have Phoenicia now please?

Spoiler :

Yes it's the same continent. No the loyalty pressure is too high. QQ

 

[Zaarin]

Let me put in a vote for the Punjab in northwest India. Even Anthony Bourdain, who was the world's premier Carnivore, admitted that he could be a vegetarian in that area and enjoy it. - And we have two such restaurants in my area and I know the family that runs both of them!

I adore Indian food, too, and am fortunate to have a phenomenal Indian restaurant in my city--I eat there almost weekly. In fact, if I had to choose a favorite individual dish I would probably choose paneer butter masala. But as far as overall cuisine, nothing compares to Levantine or Persian IMO. Plus my body just feels good after eating Levantine food.

 

[Ziad]

Nothing beats a good assortment of finger foods when I go home. The mezzeh is my favorite part. By the time the shawarma rolls in, I'm 90% full... then I eat anyway.

Fun fact: A lot of that food dates all the way back to the Phoenicians. Wrapped grape leaves drenched in olive oil and stuffed with meat is one that comes to mind.

 

[bite]

With all the policy options I think Phoenicia will be spewing forth settlers

 

[Ziad]

By the way what are the odds that they reworked some Eurekas? Maybe Writing has changed.

 

[The googles do nothing]

"She can move her original capital to any city she controlls which has a Cothon by completing a unique project." That's the exact quote.

Phoenicia is "Mali for Settlers". They have too be weak or lack boosts in some areas because they have a production boost to the most important unit in the game.

 

[God of Kings]

Phoenicia can produce settlers 2.5 times as fast as the base production.

 

[Zaarin]

Fun fact: A lot of that food dates all the way back to the Phoenicians. Wrapped grape leaves drenched in olive oil and stuffed with meat is one that comes to mind.

Hummus, too.

They have too be weak or lack boosts in some areas because they have a production boost to the most important unit in the game.

This is an important point. Dido can churn out Settlers at a rate her neighbors should find very alarming.

 

[IvoryPavane]

Phoenicia can produce settlers 2.5 times as fast as the base production.

I always find these analysis very interesting because a Civilisations “strength” is very subjective indeed.

I’m assuming this is aimed at people who want to play Deity and need tight, efficient Civs to overcome the AIs bonuses.

It’s a tricky one because while focused Civs like Korea are undisputedly stronger, they basically play themselves. I don’t win games, Seowons do and that feels like a really binary, stale way to win.

In that respect, Korea is a vastly inferior Civ to Dido. But only because the criteria from what I want from a Civ is different to others. But for someone who only wants to win, Korea is queen.

Thinking on it, I think Dido is going to either have really amazing memorable games whee you pull off incredible feats, or games where you have a hard time...

 

[Greywulf]

Like their purple color, which suits them, but that also reminds me that they were a major trade civilization...Where is their trade focus? They seem more focused on settling and navel combat than anything else.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

What Dido is going to be great at is EXPANDING.. rapidly.

Rapidly, perhaps, but not early. I'd say Phoenicia is going to be able to expand mid-game more cheaply than other civs, and possibly settle in tight spaces other civs couldn't safely fit a city into. But not in the early game which is when you really want to be getting Settlers out fast.

I may try delaying an early Settler push for the techs, districts, etc. necessary to get cheaper Settlers to see how it works, but right now I think it will seriously delay getting my empire up and running and likely cost me a few city site locations. At least on Deity. Maybe GS shakes this up, but right now I find that Builder, Army, Settlers until I can't Settle No More, is usually the ideal build order for my capital to give me the best chance to (a) survive the initial Deity Warrior rush, and (b) get my economy going without capturing AI cities. New cities focus on producing the things needed for tech and civic boosts. I'm seriously doubting that delaying any of this in order to research and build Cothons in the ancient era will be efficient. It may be fun, and a change of pace, but not efficient, and therefore not OP.

What I think Phoenicia is going to be great at is getting more science, culture, faith, and gold from it's extra trade routes, ideally sea trade routes, once you've filled up all your available space with cities and can take the time to build the Government Plaza and all those Cothons (which at half price is quicker than another civ can get trade routes). That should make them an all-round good civ. Not OP, not UP. About right, power wise, I suspect. Time will tell.

 

[Ferocitus]

Here is the Tyrian purple - Dido's clothes!

Sorry, but her husband did the laundry that week and washed his purple disco shirt with her white dress.

 

[Daigotsu Max]

Like their purple color, which suits them, but that also reminds me that they were a major trade civilization...Where is their trade focus? They seem more focused on settling and navel combat than anything else.

They do get up to 4 extra trade routes and a cheaper harbor in fairness. Maybe not all about trade but definitely an edge in economic matter.

 

[Ziad]

That reviewer still thinks coastal cities will be bad... *sigh*

He also falls for the same pitfall that many people do. He talks about stacking bonuses, ignoring the possible complementary path.

Oh well need Thursday to come.

 

[Ferocitus]

What are the advantages of moving your capital?

1) to avoid losing a Domination Victory, but this will hinge upon how long the project takes to complete.
2) to generate more Loyalty pressure on a vulnerable city, since the capital exerts more pressure.
3) to attempt to Loyalty flip a rival city through increased pressure.

Can anyone think of another reason?

Avoiding adverse effects of Natural disasters, temporarily, or permanently.
To avoid spies being sent to your Capital.

 

[Ziad]

Like their purple color, which suits them, but that also reminds me that they were a major trade civilization...Where is their trade focus? They seem more focused on settling and navel combat than anything else.

The Cothon means you can get your trade online more quickly than others. The Settler bonus means you can get more cities than others. The loyalty bonus means you can forward settle for even more cities.

With +4 guaranteed additional trade routes and all the trade routes from your Cothons, you'll basically be swimming in trade routes.

 

[DWilson]

Worst. Civ. Ever.

Why does this sound familiar?

Spoiler :

But really, it's still Georgia.

I like the art for both the leader and the district. I like civs like this that encourage alternative playstyles. Should be plenty of fun!

 

[UWHabs]

Why does this sound familiar?

Spoiler :

But really, it's still Georgia.

I like the art for both the leader and the district. I like civs like this that encourage alternative playstyles. Should be plenty of fun!

And again, not every civ has to be the "best" civ, or be super-OP. If the civ gives interesting bonuses that yields a fun and different play-style, that's a bonus in my books. Phoenecia certainly has some potential for that. I don't think they're going to be my #1 civ, but they at least offer a slightly different style to the other naval powers.