Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
Why can't Lancers hold the line?
Why can't Lancers hold the line?
I've said this a few time, but nobody seems to listen, maybe this will help:
PIKEMEN ARE NOT EXCLUSIVELY ANTI-CAVALRY UNITS. WHEN YOU ARE LOW ON IRON, FOR MANY AIs AND FOR ALMOST ALL CITY-STATES, THEY ARE PRIMARILY AN INFANTRY UNIT MEANT TO HOLD THE LINE WITH DEFENSIVE BONUSES TO PROVIDE COVER FOR RANGED UNITS BEHIND THEM. LANCERS CANNOT DO THAT.
Whats so hard for people to understand that it makes more sense to have the
anti-mounted unit become an anti-mounted unit on upgrade?
Do you really want me to retype everything I just posted or what? The sooner we stop making the argument that both Pikes and Lancers are defined by the fact that they have a bonus vs. mounted and only by the fact that they have a bonus vs. mounted, the sooner this conversation will actually start moving again.
@ Hyper Nova:
You do not always need to have the 3-4 'roles' (melee, ranged, siege, anti-mounted?) filled at all times. To an extent it makes the game too linear. Instead of recognizing a system and bending over backwards to make units fit into it, why not just create a better system?
This a complete kick in the balls for my entire infantry line to turn into a garbage unit
no one uses.
I'm not arguing that there is no need for lancers, only that pikeman shouldn't upgrade to them.
Let say I'm playing as china and my army consists of chokonus and pikemen, which works fine as a combination. No need for expensive resource consuming longswords. Pikemen providing defence, CHK the attacking power. Clearly, I want my pikemen to upgrade to another defensive unit. But once I reach metalurgy my pikemen upgrade to lancers - clearly not the unit I want. Sure, I could build a whole load of new musketmen/riflemen, but that's annoying. I want the unit which fills the role of a front line infantry unit to upgrade to the next unit which fills the role of a front line defensive unit.
The way the game should work IMHO is to go back to how it works vanilla. The expensive and cheap infantry units merge (which is historically accurate and makes for good gameplay as there is no modern resource requirement for infantry units) and two bring back two mounted unit type:
Light cavalry: horseman->lancer->something new->helicopter
Heavy cavalry: knight->cavalry->landship->tank->modern armour
Lancers with no more moves than cavalry are useless, as cavalry are only 1 tech up and literally better at everything, even killing other cavalry. Lastly, the anti-tank gun and AA gun should be merged into a single unit as, frankly, neither are useful enough in their own right. Being good against only 1 type of unit when the enemy might yield 5 or 6 different ones is not enough. A field gun or battery (modelled on the german 88mm) would be a unit actually worth building. Similarly, the SAM batter should be replaced by an RPG unit of some sort which is good against both aircraft and tanks. The helicopter would be relegated to a light cavalry recon/hit-and-run style of attacks.
In fact, I did a mod which did the latter for vanilla, will probably re release for G&K in a few weeks, once I've really gotten to grips with modern warfare.
It sounds to me that you want pikes to fit the role you want them too, and not the role that the developers want them too. Just because you say that pikes are a front line infantry unit does not make it so. Clearly longswords are supposed to be your infantry for that time. Don't have iron? Well that is the point of strategic resources. You will suffer for a bit, having to use other units ( such as pikes) to deal. However that does not mean that is the main purpose of pikes, and as such they shouldn't upgrade into something they are not. If you are screwed out of iron the logical thing is to make due until you can get access to musketman, which is the point of the line. They are resourceless front line infantry units.
I wonder if there is some sort of limitation within the game mechanics that prevent us from having a "upgrade to lancer" AND "upgrade to musketman" button...
...because that would solve the issue, right?
The best is having a Jaguar upgraded into a Spearman from ruins, and then surviving all the way into a Jaglancer.
Those are awesome Arborea units.