pineappledan 4UC report card thread

pineappledan · Jun 7, 2024

Hello,

I thought I would post a separate thread where I quickly review 4UC's components by 3 criteria:
Theme: Their historical importance, how important I feel portraying that thing is to the identity of the culture overall, etc.
Mechanics: The gameplay feel of that component. How complex is it. How difficult to implement. How nicely does it play with the rest of the kit
Uniqueness: Unique components should be unique. The ideal component is one that replaces a base component that nothing else replaces, and unlocks some sort of playstyle or approach to the game that is novel to that civilization.

Spoiler America :

Spoiler Arabia :

Spoiler Assyria :

Spoiler Austria :

Overall grade: D+
Another case of a badly overcentralized kit damaging any potential design space for more UCs. Austria's marriage mechanic is just too powerful on its own; any new components have nothing to do except get out of its way. Augmenting it further would just make an already OP civ even more unbalanced, so the only thing to do is give some tangential bonuses that would be useful for some other victory path that you're never going to take, because Austria is just way too overoptimized for the Cultural/Diplomatic victory path.

Austria - Grenzer
Theme - B. Knowing relatively little about Austria, but given it is one of the least militaristic civs in the game currently, this allowed for a fairly blank slate upon which to choose a new UC. The Grenzer appeared, to my eyes, to be the most relevant and interesting unique unit choice available for Austria, showcasing the constant border conflicts against the encroaching Ottomans and how that shaped Austrian military organization and institutions for centuries later.
Mechanics - F. Overall I would say I am unhappy with how this unit turned out. I think the concept is interesting, but scaling flat CS is not a great bonus that is both hard to tune and hard to convey. I'm left at a loss as to what would make the Grenzer reflect its unique place in history while also feeling like a fun and unique addition to Austria's existing kit.
Uniqueness - C. It scales its base CS off the marriage mechanic, which is unique enough, but I don't know if it really feels like a Grenzer. Fusilier UUs are fairly easy to come up with, and it feels a bit like this unit is squatting on a coveted unit slot that a more interesting UU could occupy right now. It also is stacked closely with the unique Hussar, giving an oddly large power spike for a non-military civ.

Austria - Standschutzen
Theme - D. Knowing relatively little about Austrian history myself, I'm not sure if what we came up with here is particularly emblematic of Autstria. It served more for the realities of the mod, and the choice was dominated more by what we needed to avoid than what we wanted to portray. Still, the UB portrays something of Tyrolean, Alpine Austrian history and culture which is neat, since the UA and UB are very focused on Vienna, and the two UUs are from the Eastern march.
Mechanics - D. It's a CS ally scaler and some military unit production. None of this really helps Austria with their victory pursuit, but Austria is so overpowered it didn't feel right to give them anything that is actually helpful.
Uniqueness - B. It is an arsenal replacement, which is totally unique and far removed from the Austria's other renaissance components.

Spoiler Aztecs :

Spoiler Babylon :

Spoiler Brazil :

Spoiler Byzantium :

Spoiler Carthage :

Overall grade: B+
Carthage's uniques are both style over substance. The concepts are much more interesting on paper than in-game, but they are interesting. The Suffet is unique to play with, totally unlike anything else in the game, but hampered by how naval pathing prevents disembarking like a normal GGeneral would. The Tophet is a very interesting, albeit a bit edgy. The most recent congress session stole one of its unique mechanics leaving it impoverished and in need of a glow-up.

Suffet
Theme - A. This unit is a fun historical reference and has abilities that directly reference Carthage's historic victories where they outmaneuvered and outflanked the Romans handily. It's good fun.
Mechanics - B. The unit has some very interesting mechanics, able to morph between a GAdmiral and a GGeneral form gives it lots of cool interactions. However, the inability to disembark except on canals and cities is a serious imperfection. It makes amphibious assaults harder with Carthage, because it can be difficult to get your GGenerals onto different landmasses.
Uniqueness - S. Well it certainly is unique. There are 2 other GGenerals, but no other GAdmirals exist in the game. And no other transforming units. It has some very interesting situational utility and the ability to confer ZOC to nearby units puts a new spin on maneuvering units in combat

Tophet
Theme - B. For a unique building, the Tophet is pretty dark. It references an unseemly aspect of Carthaginian culture, their penchant for child sacrifice. Despite this, it's a great icon, and it's a pretty lurid, interesting thing to learn about. I don't hate it, it's just not as celebratory of a unique component as perhaps it ought to be.
Mechanics - D. The current bonuses to unit purchase make no sense for what the building is. They are also kind of boring.
Uniqueness - C. As a unique shrine it is early enough that it feels almost like a part of the UA. But in this ultra-early slot it doesn't do anything that feels transformative for the civ. If you are going to have a building this early it feels like it should matter more for your game plan. Once again I don't hate it, but there is a lot of potential here that is untapped

Spoiler Celts :

More coming soon

pineappledan · Jun 7, 2024

Spoiler China :

Spoiler Denmark :

Spoiler Egypt :

Spoiler England :

Spoiler Ethiopia :

Spoiler France :

Spoiler Germany :

Overall grade: A
Germany’s 4UC components make Germany far more well-rounded. The UB in 4UC upgrades the UA unit gift mechanic in an important way, keeping it relevant into the late game. The UU gives back that late game war machine that was taken away when we gave the unique tank to the order ideology.

Krupp Gun
Theme - C. Featuring a unique artillery piece for Germany probably feels like a left field pick compared to any number of German military units we could have picked. There are few civs that could be said to have iconic 20th century artillery pieces, and Big Bertha fits the bill. Germany took one for the team, so to speak, by being a civ that historically has had a kit that facilitated a large late game military power spike, so it is something people are comfortable with. There is a multitude of things Germany could have had instead, but only a few civs could fill these late game military slots like Germany can.
Mechanics - A. The unit has 2 unique mechanics: global power bonus for all other Krupp guns for each attack a Krupp gun makes in a turn, and the ability to pillage fortifications by killing the defending unit. This changes Germany’s late game military tactics to reward relentless artillery barrage. The pillage on fort idea has come up multiple times in congress, so there is energy around this idea, but I think a UU ability is the perfect place for it.
Uniqueness - S. Totally unique base unit, 2 separate unique mechanics, makes you feel like you’re about to unleash Verdun on your opponent.

Brauhaus
Theme - S. Beer. The German UB is Beer.
On a more serious note it would not be an overstatement to say that Germany was the main character of the 19th century intellectual phase of the ideological struggles that erupted into violence in the 20th century. The beer halls and gardens of Germany figured prominently into this history.

… Also we’re talking about Germany and beer.

Mechanics - B. The mechanics are tangentially linked to the ideology choices and the unit gift mechanic of the UA. This UB breathes life into the unit gift mechanic, which now has to compete for relevance against much stronger, faster, and more efficient diplomatic units. The 4UC component is a necessary mid-game upgrade to keep Germany’s UA ability relevant.
Uniqueness - A. No other unique windmills, and fairly well-spaced from Germany’s other components.

Spoiler Greece :

Spoiler Huns :

Spoiler Inca :

Spoiler India :

Overall grade: C-
India’s 4UC bonuses are serviceable and nothing more. The entire civ as a monolithic concept is a sham, so that might be why I feel this way, but the representation of Indian culture and history cannot be contained by a single civ; any attempt to do so is going to leave a bad taste in my mouth. The only remedy I can think of is to center the entire Indian kit and Gandhi at its helm onto the British Raj, and give them Sepoys, Ghurkas, cantons, etc. Obviously we didn’t do that.

Dhanurdhara
Theme - C. Archers play a central role in some of India’s founding texts, and is the highest form of martial art in Indian tradition. However, the unit portrayed here is somewhat amorphous. If the unit was meant to represent the Aryan invasion then it should be on a chariot, but we can’t do that because that would upgrade directly into the Naga Malla. The choice for an Archer replacement was dictated by the fact that we had no new unique archer in 4UC and only 1 in the base game.
Mechanics - D. The unit is too strong. Archers are good normally, and this unit has a lot going on. Yields on kill are everywhere, and we have the Pictish warrior already giving faith on kills in this same era. I have been a dissenting voice w.r.t. doubling the yields on barbarian kills on both this unit and the Pancerny since 2017. I have kept them in the mod out of respect for the now departed contributor who designed them, but I don’t expect them to survive integration if it goes through.
Uniqueness - A. The Dhanurdhara was picked because it was a unique base component. It has a unique XP on kills and yields on level that is tied to the unit level instead of a building. It might be Too unique, with too much going on for such an early unit.

Qila
Theme - D. The India blob is a product of Mughal and British imperial rule binding an entire subcontinent together into a singular identity. The Qila is a vanilla component that seems almost cute in contrast to the colonial violence it implies. I would contend that any component that tries to bind India into a single identity is going to be either a fiction, an aberration, or belong to an invasive other and be unrepresentative of the indigenous population. In the Qila we have the latter.
Mechanics - C. stacking defense paired with defense to yield converter is cool and good. This gives India a feather-soft incentive to wonder whore. Otherwise it's just a stronger castle that doesn't offer much else aside from base yields
Uniqueness - C. The castle is one of the most commonly modded UB slots in civ 5. Despite this there is only 1 other unique castle in VP: the Barbican. The Qila is just a slightly better castle that gives more culture. It isn’t special or transformative.

Spoiler Indonesia :

Spoiler Iroquois :

Spoiler Japan :

Spoiler Korea :

Spoiler Maya :

Spoiler Mongolia :

Spoiler Morocco :

Spoiler Netherlands :

Spoiler Ottomans :

Spoiler Persia :

pineappledan · Jun 7, 2024

Spoiler Poland :

Spoiler Polynesia :

Overall grade: B+
For both of Polynesia’s additions, we chose things that were emblematic of the entire pan-polynesian culture rather than for specific islands. The Marae and Vaka Nui are both depictions of cultural elements found on most or all island nations, unlike the Moai of Rapa Nui and the Maori warriors of Aotearoa. While the specific mechanics are a bit undercooked, I am happy with our choices from a thematic perspective, to such a degree that I think we outdid the base components in that regard. However, because we picked things that are Pan-Polynesian, that invariably meant the components all come early, and I am not too pleased with how the kit is fully unlocked by early classical.

Vaka Nui
Theme - S. Meaning “Big Ship” in a putative proto-polynesian language, the Vaka Nui represents the large catamarans used for colonization, migration, and trade throughout the Pacific.
Mechanics - B. The unit moves the ability to build fishing boats without expending a work boat from embarked melee units onto a unit with work boat AI and extends the ability to oil wells. This unit was drafted before the military unit improvement abilities were fixed, and represented my attempt to get Polynesia to actually use these abilities. There will be hurdles to making computer players use the Vaka Nui offensively, and not to over-produce them, but they still will be useful defensively.
Uniqueness - S. Unique fishing boat co-opted into a military support unit – a GAdmiral lite – is very unique.

Marae
Theme - S. The Marae, or Malae, are meeting places for Polynesian communities that are found in all extant cultures. They are the most consistent cultural institution, and are especially prominent in Maori culture where they formed the nucleus of anti-colonial and indigenous rights organizations.
Mechanics - D. They give a bonus on building completion. They come really early so there isn’t much wiggle-room for really expressive bonuses unless they cut into the UA.
Uniqueness – C. The yields are a strong early game boost but fade into the background quite quickly. There are no other unique councils at least.

Spoiler Portugal :

Overall grade: C+
The thing that I have gleaned from my casual perusal of Portugal’s history is that Brazil, Spain, and Portugal all being separate civs is extremely unhelpful. In culture, historical entanglements, and warfare these three are virtually inseparable, and nowhere is that more clear than with Portugal. This nation has been militarily and politically irrelevant since 1755. Outside of the creation of the Carrack/Nau, and the reconquest of Portugal from the Moors by the Crusaders – a subject thoroughly covered by the existing religious mechanics – Portugal’s military may as well have not existed. The paucity of things about Portugal worth depicting puts us in a bad spot for making extra components for them, but we did the best we could.

Cacador
Theme - C. A light infantry trained by the English from Portuguese recruits to try to slow Napoleon down a bit. It didn’t work, and as far as candidates for unique light infantry go, the Cacadores score far below the Scottish Highlanders, Rangers, Zouaves, Jaegers, Grenzers, and Chasseurs, all of which are highly decorated a memorable infantry divisions that were met with far more success.
Mechanics - C. A random recon stem promotion is also given to the unit on level up. This means that newly-trained cacadores are usually much better than upgraded veterans, because they will get 2-3 free scout promotions in addition to their ranged promos. This mechanic is unintuitive in how it punishes highly-promoted old units and rewards training new recruits. It is also extremely, brutally strong if you manage to get the right mix of free promotions, which is outside of player control.
Uniqueness - B. Well it certainly doesn’t lack for uniqueness, that is for sure. No other unique Gatling Guns, and nothing that gives free promotions like the Fighting Cock mechanic.

University of Coimbra
Theme - C. This is just the oldest university, and for more than a century the oldest university in Portugal. It is neither the oldest, the largest, nor the most prestigious university in Europe, but is at least very influential within Portugal.
Mechanics - A. The UNW gives gold on tile reveal to all naval units 1 tech before the Nau opens up deep ocean exploration. The Age of Discovery ability doubles down on Portugal’s naval exploration and trade theme. The Admiral movement restoration bonus is like a naval version of Sweden’s massive military bonus on GG birth, but unlike sweden, Portugal’s GAdmiral bonus triggers on expend. If this is not suitable for the AI it could be moved to be on birth like the Swedish one, but for now I like the control this gave Portugal on this relatively more niche ability.
Uniqueness – B. It is a UNW that gives some standard UNW bonuses, but also has some very interesting tricks up its sleeve. Overall I am very happy with what UoCoimbra brings to the table.

Spoiler Rome :

Spoiler Russia :

Overall grade: C-
Russia’s components are really, really strong and really straightforward. What you see is what you get. No frills, no new strategies, just brute strength and base yields.

Licorne
Theme - B. One of Russia’s unique contributions to military sciences was in field artillery. The licorne was one of the earliest examples of a field gun, exceptionally mobile and innovative.
Mechanics - B. High RCS, can move after attack, and no movement penalty in foreign lands. Without adding any actual movement bonuses, the Licorne is significantly easier to use and more dangerous than a standard field gun. The licorne makes Russia exceptionally dangerous as a mid-game neighbour.
Uniqueness – B. It gets a bump for being a siege unit, but besides that it is a raw RCS and mobility bonus with no conditions. Between the higher RCS and the large bonus vs infantry, the Licorne punches holes through opponents in a way that makes it similar to my criticism of the Longbowman: Your opinion on uniqueness will depend on how unique you think raw power with no drawbacks is.

Pogost
Theme - C. Pogosts represent rural Russian administration. There is not much to say about them except they are an institution that has survived centuries. Thematically they aren’t flashy, but it works.
Mechanics - C. Growing yields on tech increase and a bonus to villages. Neither bonus adds much pizzazz; it’s an earlier version of the same bonus the Stock Exchange gives. However, multiple tech enhancements to a building is something I had to implement via lua because the existing table that is supposed to handle this function is only capable of adding 1 tech boost. This component can be seen as a feature request to make this table more functional.
Uniqueness - F. There is already another customs House, the Hanse, and the comparison between that and the Pogost is unflattering. The Pogost is a flat yields machine that gives no new incentives other than slightly altering your tech priorities.

Spoiler Shoshone :

Overall grade: A
Not quite perfect, but both components fit the Shoshone play style, both thematically and mechanically. Nothing to complain about.

Yellow Brow
Theme - A. The Ohamupe, or Yellow Brow, were the most prominent military society of the Shoshone, performing a key warfare and policing duty for their tribes. These military societies were a prominent part of plains tribes life, taking slightly different forms in various other groups like the Cheyenne, Blackfoot, and many more. One distinctive part of these military societies that developed prior to European contact is the ritual of no-retreat combat. In the famous instance of Cheyenne Dog Soldiers, the warrior would literally hammer a peg into the ground with a leash, and fight from his position until he was either killed or the peg was removed by an ally. With the Shoshone Yellow Brows, a similar ritual was performed surrounding a war leader who would plant his staff, and all other men would defend him to their dying breaths, or until the head warrior removed his staff from the ground.
Mechanics - S. A defensive unit and gains a higher defensive bonus while fortified. This is a perfect match for Shoshone’s aggressive turtle style of warfare. These units hold their ground well, especially in combination with defensive tile bonuses and tick damage from encampments.
Uniqueness - B. Tercio is not a very unique base unit, but the thematic and mechanical links with the culture are so strong it is more than acceptable.

Buffalo Pound
Theme - B. The Shoshone weren’t the most prominent users of buffalo pounds, but they did use them and we have no other representatives of a Great Plains culture who would fit better. Any other alternative for these people would probably be some slight variation of a tipi.
Mechanics - A. The Buffalo Pound gives additional yields in the city for each UI you place on a tile owned by that same city, whether or not it is being worked. Because Shoshone expands so fast, you will have a lot of tiles outside working range, so this UB gives some economic incentive to build encampments beyond their defensive utility. This addresses a gap in the existing kit.
Uniqueness – B. Well/Watermill is already covered by the Nilometer, but a 2 building mutually exclusive pair can have 2 different UBs just fine. The mechanics are a perfect match for the Shoshone.

Spoiler Siam :

Spoiler Songhai :

Spoiler Spain :

Overall grade: A-
Spain’s components are almost solely based on the most immediately recognizable Spanish cultural artifacts that would be recognizable to a non-spanish audience. The themes are strong and they have the unique mechanical tools to match.

Armada
Theme - B. Technically not a type of boat, but rather the term for a fleet. Most famously tied to the failed invasion of England in 1588. Perhaps a bit ignominious for a unique unit, but definitely popular and recognizable. This also gives Spain a boat at the height of their power, and combines with their ability to faith purchase naval units.
Mechanics - A. Has extra CS when at full hp. This can make alpha strikes with an Armada very powerful, but also makes them highly susceptible to ranged attacks, which can steal their thunder. They also get free boarding party and GAdmirals on kills. This emphasizes Spain’s naval doctrine which emphasized boarding actions in contrast to the English who favoured smaller boats and gunnery. Ultimately it was the latter that carried the day, and marked a shift in military tactics as cannons continued to improve.
Uniqueness - A. The mechanics of the unit not only encourage you to play like the Spanish, but also make the enemy play like the English. Spain wants to adopt an overwhelming force to capitalize on your alpha strike advantage and the enemy wants to kit your ships, at least initially. The unit synergizes with the UA, and has excellent thematic and roleplaying bonuses.

Bullring
Theme - S. What could be more Spanish than bullfighting? What could be more emblematic of Spanish culture, dating to from pre-roman Iberian Celts all the way up the the modern day? There is no doubt in my mind that this had to be Spain’s 2nd civilian component.
Mechanics - B. The WLTKD bonuses are mismatched to the theme, in my opinion. However, I wanted this UB to be more than some yields on pastures. The public works project ability gives Spain something to do with the building, and the WLTKD instant yields give Spain players altered incentives. That is something any good UB should bring to the table.
Uniqueness – A. Nothing else augments public works in the game. There are also no Zoos. This UB has a ton of unique qualities.

Spoiler Sweden :

Overall grade: C-
I don’t think we got it right with Sweden. Sweden is hemmed in by being the “Not-Viking” civ right now, but it is still a warmonger. The Hakkapeliitta is not even Swedish, really. The Bastu is the seed of a good idea, but the bonuses it currently has are all over the place.

Hakkapeliitta
Theme - C. This unit is more Finnish than Swedish, but they did fight for the Swedish Empire. It mainly gets a pass because it was already a vanilla component. Personally I would have opted for a viking component like a Jarl or some sort of Varangian, but we need to have a conversation about whether Denmark and Sweden are “The Viking Scandinavian civ” and “The Not-Viking Scandinavian civ”, respectively.
Mechanics - D. Big heal on kill with a bonus vs wounded. Personally I don’t think this adds much to the Swedish kit; they already have the Carolean in the same era that also has a big AOE damage bonus on kills, so I don’t know what this unit is doing. I just followed the lead of the main mod, who designed the current Hakka’s bonuses.
Uniqueness - D. Unique lancer. Lots of these already, with Persia, Poland, and of course Ottomans waiting in the wing with their Sipahi CS gift. The bonuses are not particularly innovative, and they clash with the existing unit, which uses the same trigger for something more unique. This component is upstaged.

Bastu
Theme - A. Dry heat baths are emblematic of Scandinavian culture, albeit the Finnish saunas are more internationally recognizable. The Bastu are found throughout Sweden. We have accounts of them from the earliest christian missionaries all the way up to the modern day. Like bullfighting is for Spain, sweaty dudes sitting in a little room and hitting each other with leafy branches is peak Sweden.
Mechanics - D. Bonuses on tundra and lakes and additional food on golden ages. This component’s bonuses need a rethink. We intended to help Sweden a bit with growth in the early-mid game so it could reap the benefit of the pop scalers that eventually come with the Skola later on. The specific way we went about that I now feel was a bit wrongheaded.
Uniqueness – C. No other baths in the game, but the yields on specific terrain, the yields on birth, and the golden age bonuses are all scattershot. The building does too many different things to feel like it has much of an identity.

Spoiler Venice :

Overall grade: A+
There is no civ that, on paper, benefits more from a gameplay perspective from 4UC than Venice. In base VP, Venice has no military UU, and no military bonuses to speak of unless it picks 1 of 3 possible unique wonders. The Venetians also have a unique great person and no consistent way of making more of them vs a base civ. Persia can build more GMerchants more consistently than Venice can. The UUs and UB that 4UC adds to Venice address inconsistencies and shortcomings of the Venetian kit that could not be seem to be fixed with only 2 component slots.

Great Galleass & Fusta
Theme - A. The Great Galleass is a base component, and it always seemed a bit silly to give Venice a slightly larger version of the exact same base unit and call it a unique. However, we rectified that by pairing it with the Fusta, a smaller galley that was used to police trade routes and ward of pirates. The combination of the two supplements the GGalleass’ otherwise lackluster theme.
Mechanics - S. Venice is the only base VP civ with no military bonuses whatsoever, unless you pick the Venetian arsenal. The Great Galleass and Fusta fix that by making a double-barrelled 2-in-1 unique component. The Great Galleass provides conventional power while the Fusta, which is both supply and maintenance free, provides affordable map coverage, allowing Venice to maintain a presence over the shipping lanes.
Uniqueness - S. No other unique component is 2 different units at once. It doesn’t even need to be a ship to be one of the most distinct UU designs in the game, but it is also that.

Banco Giro
Theme - A. The history of accounting and finance isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, but banking was invented in northern Italy and it was specifically the Venetians who formalized many of the methods and theories of bookkeeping and debt instruments that are still in use today. The Banco Giro was one of the oldest and longest-standing national banks in existence until Napoleon shut it down. This component pays homage to that legacy.
Mechanics - A. The base VP kit gives Venice a unique great merchant, but their only additional means of generating GMerchants is a free 1 at the Trade tech and 2 extra slots IF they pick the Rialto District as their wonder. Does that not seem odd to anyone else? The Banco Giro rectifies this by not only giving Venice an unconditional merchant slot, but also adds a % yield to GPP converter.
Uniqueness – B. No other unique banks in the game and nothing that converts yields into Great Person Points. The component offers no new incentives, but fills a gaping hole in Venice’s current kit.

Spoiler Zulu :

Overall grade: B
Zulu didn’t need much more help with warfare, so the 4UC team opted to use their warfighting bonuses to provide some cultural and economic benefits. The InDuna gives a little extra XP on expend, but is otherwise a purely economic boost over the base GGeneral. Likewise, the Iziko is a pure culture battery that turns war stories into global culture across your empire.

InDuna & Isibaya
Theme - A. The InDuna were warchiefs that organized the Ibutho of fighting men under their command. The Isibaya are commonly known as Kraals in English, militarized compounds for living and cattle protection. The Zulu culture and economy was centered around the cattle herds, which is noticeably absent from the current kit.
Mechanics - A. Great General that gives a large sum of XP to the unit it is stacked with when expended, and plants a cattle resource under its unique citadel replacement. It’s pretty flashy, but perhaps a bit style-over-substance. The adjacency bonus for other cattle resources does give the Zulu a slightly altered priority for placing their citadels, if you are in a position where you can be a bit more flexible with where you need your citadels.
Uniqueness - B. The abilities and components are interesting and unique, and the historicity is good. However, This is the Third Great General replacement, in addition to the Khan and the Suffet.

Iziko
Theme - D. It’s a bonfire. The centrality of the Iziko to Zulu life does not strike me as particularly different from any other culture, who all have strong attachments to firekeeping, stories, and music. We tried to give the Iziko a bit of flavor from South African philosophy of Ubuntu, but I don’t think that comes across.
Mechanics - B. A global version of the Dojo yields from leveling up. As would be expected the Iziko scales a lot with the number of cities in your empire. The unique bonus is undeniably potent in combination with the Zulu UA; no other bells and whistles required. The fact you have to divert all the way up to Drama and Poetry to get this culture engine on the Zulu, of all people, is interesting enough.
Uniqueness – C. Not that unique, and there is already the Greek Acropolis/Gymnasium with a similar culture for warfighting bonus on the Amphitheatre slot.

azum4roll · Jun 7, 2024

pineappledan said:
Mechanics - B. Doubles down on the UA and kind of forces your hand, because it force-steals any pastures in range of your cities. If you weren't actively antagonizing your neighbours before this well you are now. Though if you weren't setting out to do that, why did you pick America as a civ to begin with?

Currently it's ok because the AI doesn't know you're stealing tiles from them. I bet there will be complaints when it's DLL integrated and every neighbour starts hating your guts at the same time.
You don't have to buy tiles from neighbours as America to play them well.

pineappledan said:
Not really, but that's the base civ's fault for being such a narrowly focused design, and not 4UC's

The design is on all Historic Events, not just Great Person generation. You get way more triggers from trade routes than GP birth, even with the self-feedback loop.

Cebrudras · Jun 7, 2024

I think you are too harsh on yourself for the Civs that just already have great unique base stuff. Arabia having inoffensive components that don't distract from the UA is what they should be having.

Anarcomu · Jun 7, 2024

azum4roll said:
Currently it's ok because the AI doesn't know you're stealing tiles from them. I bet there will be complaints when it's DLL integrated and every neighbour starts hating your guts at the same time.

What about preventing this ability to steal tiles from declared friends ?

Heinz_Guderian · Jun 7, 2024

For me personally I had to bring up the thread about 3/4 UC along with this to remind myself what all the components do. I see that you updated the OP in that thread recently quite a bit, is everything there current?

pineappledan · Jun 7, 2024

azum4roll said:
Currently it's ok because the AI doesn't know you're stealing tiles from them.

I’m pretty sure they do actually. The lua command that steals the tile does notify the victimized AI

Lifeordeath · Jun 7, 2024

This is an interesting way to look at things. Can't wait for the rest of them.

rkkn · Jun 8, 2024

Disagree on Tophet being boring. Carthage has multiple perks to generate gold, and this building letting you convert gold into culture is pretty cool.

KlHannibal2 · Jun 8, 2024

I really like America's homestead, allowing them to push into the West (or any other land available) much more efficiently than other civs. Combined with the UA, it also encourages you to conquer and resettle, should you choose to go domintation. That's not super-unique, but still rare.

ichris22 · Jun 8, 2024

I live in Austria so I can give a little bit of information on what I think should be it's UC. Considering it's Maria Theresa that you play as, theoretically you are the Holy Roman Empress making landsknechts a more fitting unit than for Imperial Germany. They were originally employed by the Habsburg emperors, not a unified German state. As for the UB, doing something with the Military Order of Maria Theresa would be fitting.

pineappledan · Jun 8, 2024

part 2 posted

azum4roll · Jun 8, 2024

KlHannibal2 said:
Combined with the UA, it also encourages you to conquer and resettle, should you choose to go domintation.

How? All production you get from building that is local and will be gone if you raze.

azum4roll · Jun 8, 2024

pineappledan said:
I’m pretty sure they do actually. The lua command that steals the tile does notify the victimized AI

I don't see anything like that in the DLL CvPlot::setOwner.

Haldar · Jun 8, 2024

Don't know if you have forgotten it, or plan to add it later, but Celts description has one funny part - "Uniqueness - B. Text"

Revolutionist_8 · Jun 8, 2024

Interesting read, really enjoyed it!

Urzamax · Jun 8, 2024

azum4roll said:
How? All production you get from building that is local and will be gone if you raze.

I think it's because of the early Pioneer unlock, since it makes your resettling more effective.

Urzamax · Jun 8, 2024

I agree on the Chasqui, both thematically and mechanically it feels kind of wrong. As I recall, Hinin's rework mod replaced it with a Royal Guard-esque Longsword UU, might be worth looking there for inspiration?

hokath · Jun 8, 2024

It was this

Spoiler :

So it looks like it was more expensive and had a very early unlock which is a bit zany.
The Chasqui was changed to a promotion given by the UB which replaced the UI. The Terrace Farm was moved to be available to everyone (!)

pineappledan 4UC report card thread

Deity

Deity

Deity

Lost the game

Chieftain

King

Prince

Deity

Chieftain

King

Prince

Chieftain

Deity

Lost the game

Lost the game

Chieftain

King

Warlord

Warlord

Deity

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