pineappledan's Civ Tweaks

[pineappledan]

I've been bothered by a few UA for a little while, for various reasons but often because of perceived overlap or lack of originality with certain civ designs in VP. To that end, rather than get pissy about them on the leader balance discussion threads I thought I would just change my local install, and release them to the wider VP community in case they like the modmods.

Maybe if people like my changes and G is in a sporting mood, they could be integrated into VP proper, but until then, here's my changes:

Spoiler Thicc China rework :

UA: Mandate of Heaven
+1 and and a 'We Love the Empress Day' in All Cities whenever a city gains its 8th Citizen. Bonus yields are halved on Era Change. +10% and in Cities during 'We Love the Empress Day'.

UB: Paper Maker (Library)
+2 +1
No Maintenance
1 Scientist slot
-1 Illiteracy
1 Specialist does not generate Urbanization
+1 and +1 in this City whenever you create a Great Work. Bonus yields are halved on Era Change.

Spoiler Land Grab Spain :

UA: Reconquista
3 Faith and 7 Gold, scaling with Era, whenever you gain a tile through any means (settling/tile purchase/border expansion/culture bombs). An Inquisitor appears in your Capital when you Conquer a City following a different religion. May purchase Naval Units with Faith.

Spoiler Nitpick India changes :

- Naga Malla moved to Astronomy

- Harappan Reservoir now gives +2 to lakes and oases instead of +2

 

[Kim Dong Un]

Damn, your China is going to be obliterating everyone again...

 

[Guynemer]

I wonder if that China is too "gamey" in a way; ie, you're sending a settler out to a new site, you're about to hit 8 pop in a city, and hit "stop growth" until the new city gets settled. Something that can be exploited by humans and not the AI.

 

[KittyKat3120]

yayyyy!! This is amazing re-working thee civs ^-^

 

[pineappledan]

I wonder if that China is too "gamey" in a way; ie, you're sending a settler out to a new site, you're about to hit 8 pop in a city, and hit "stop growth" until the new city gets settled. Something that can be exploited by humans and not the AI.

That wouldn't matter. If you settle a city before or after the 8th increase, it would still get the 11 regardless. The UA and UB bonuses are tracked independent of any city, except for the capital.

And yes, the UA is gamey, but you can time settling/conquests/GW creations in the regular VP version of China too. People abusing stop growth isn't any worse than the system we already have.

 

[Guynemer]

That wouldn't matter. If you settle a city before or after the 8th increase, it would still get the 11 regardless. The UA and UB bonuses are tracked independent of any city, except for the capital.

Ahhhh, that's okay then.

 

[Dolen]

Those reworked Chinese and Spanish UA seem underwhelming.
I played Spain in the last game, and territory expansion UA was only relevant up until the Renaissance era; since I was getting only 9 gold and faith in the Renaissance era for one tile while turn revenues for these two were over 50 for gold and 100 for faith.
Naval purchase UA alone is still powerful alone though.

And China, you know it takes a rather long time for cities to reach 8 unless it's the capital.
You have to stop growth periodically because of unhappiness, and when 3 or 4 other cities are capable of reaching 8 pop is often the Renaissance era, when 1 culture and food is nothing... even if it was applied to say 6 cities.
Why China was so powerful and even op was that it could get lots of early cultures, although it was dropped in the latest patch.
Still, China being capable of rushing early was the key to its power IMO.

Gonna play China to get some real feeling.

 

[pineappledan]

Those reworked Chinese and Spanish UA seem underwhelming.
I played Spain in the last game, and territory expansion UA was only relevant up until the Renaissance era; since I was getting only 9 gold and faith in the Renaissance era for one tile while turn revenues for these two were over 50 for gold and 100 for faith.
Naval purchase UA alone is still powerful alone though.

And China, you know it takes a rather long time for cities to reach 8 unless it's the capital.
You have to stop growth periodically because of unhappiness, and when 3 or 4 other cities are capable of reaching 8 pop is often the Renaissance era, when 1 culture and food is nothing... even if it was applied to say 6 cities.
Why China was so powerful and even op was that it could get lots of early cultures, although it was dropped in the latest patch.
Still, China being capable of rushing early was the key to its power IMO.

Gonna play China to get some real feeling.

Please do. The main point of my china rework was to move the / back. Setting it at a specific population milestone means I can tweak it to happen more/less frequently if people are finding it under/overpowered. The big thing is a large city can trigger the UA 2+ times, while the original china only could trigger the yields once. It is moved back, yes, but it's moved back to a place where you should still be able to get 3-4 triggers in your capital during a normal game

 

[pineappledan]

Gonna reupload this.
With the growth changes being as severe as they have been, I'm going to try reducing the / to every 5 for China. In Chinese numerology, 5 is traditionally associated with the Imperial Court, though it is not a particularly auspicious number like 8 is. Lets give it a go.

 

[Guynemer]

So, first thing with Spain: it says gain gold and faith when gaining a tile by any means, but you do not get gold or faith when gaining land via ancient ruins. I'm not sure if that is a limitation of the game engine, or an oversight.

 

[pineappledan]

Hahaha. Yeah that’s an oversight in the code; totally forgot about ruins.

Maybe @HungryForFood wants to patch that 1 loophole up, since that affects his Tojo civ as well, but otherwise that’s probably not going to change

 

[Guynemer]

I do enjoy this version of Spain's UA better than base VP; base VP felt more locked into Authority/warmongering, whereas this makes Tradition or Progress at least a little bit viable.

 

[Kim Dong Un]

I do enjoy this version of Spain's UA better than base VP; base VP felt more locked into Authority/warmongering, whereas this makes Tradition or Progress at least a little bit viable.

Can you achieve the same yields though? If this is more fun, but default Isabella gets more results by snowballing a few cities, then why divert?

I played a Progress Spain right before Dan released this (otherwise I would've already tried this rework), and the instant yields on conquer are so impactful, even without Authority. I'm not trying to downplay this, and I actually enjoy that Dan provides alternatives and options like this, but I'm simply curious as to how they compare and if Dan's rework is weaker or has less potential than Zebo's. Maybe a case of higher floor, lower ceiling. A Tradition Spain sounds really interesting though, so I might try that one out.

Edit* Do you also receive yields from acquiring tiles through conquest, eg. newly conquered city has 10 tiles, so = 30 gold / 20 faith (+ era scaling) ?

 

[pineappledan]

Edit* Do you also receive yields from acquiring tiles through conquest, eg. newly conquered city has 10 tiles, so = 30 gold / 20 faith (+ era scaling) ?

Yes.

You gain yields for every tile you claim. That includes settling, border expansion, buying tiles, citadel bombs and conquests.
32 x # tiles

 

[Kim Dong Un]

Yes.

You gain yields for every tile you claim. That includes settling, border expansion, buying tiles, citadel bombs and conquests.
32 x # tiles

K. I figured, but conquest wasn't specifically listed in your description so I though I'd ask. The recent China tweak down to 5 is juicy, and I'm actually tempted to give that a shot after I finish my current Dutch 4UC game (Goedendag / Waag are legit, and Seabeggars into Ironclads with the recent city attack buff is just punishingly awesome)

 

[Guynemer]

Can you achieve the same yields though? If this is more fun, but default Isabella gets more results by snowballing a few cities, then why divert?

Warmongers isn't my preferred playstyle.

 

[Kim Dong Un]

Warmongers isn't my preferred playstyle.

Nor mine, but taking a few cities over the course of a game doesn't necessarily make you a warmonger. All good though, I'll simply try these out. Dan's Spain certainly has a more interesting and fun mechanic on paper, for the reasons you pointed out, so I'm interested to try.

 

[saamohod]

UA: Reconquista
2 Faith and 3 Gold, scaling with Era, whenever you gain a tile through any means (settling/tile purchase/border expansion/culture bombs).

I wonder how it works with "Hex conquer and release" mod (https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/hex-conquer-and-release.485036/) ?

 

[pineappledan]

It won’t. That capture and release mod works via lua, and the tile yields are triggered by sql. It would be totally OP, with civs land constantly moving back and forth, triggering many times over on the same tiles.

 

[saamohod]

It would be totally OP

That's why I asked. Good to know.