Pitboss game within the team

Im not sure exactly when this turn was on, last log in i think i was 5 turns from my last part. one part due in 2/3 and another due in 3/4.

I knew i couldnt outbuild dave, as i told folk via msn but that didnt stop many of you thinking that i could win.

I dont have any pictures for right now but i have my spoiler for this game is over at cdz- http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3622

basically founded my capital and then had log in difficulties and wasnt able to actually log in for at least 3 weeks, how i survived that is beyond me? :s when i finally managed to get in grs had expanded quite solidly towards me and thus i didnt have any metal- hence the daveshack war, i borrowed some copper from grs and sent off my troops against dave-won 1 lucky battle which basically sealed daves fate.

grs was meant to have helped me with this war but he gave me some excuse as to why he couldnt, so this got me wary in the meantime i had started a tech alliance with whomp and robi d-one which in one form or another would last to pretty much the end of the game.

then the WW which is fairly well documented i was one of the main beneficiaries except when it came to me leaving and ID taking over and due to an unfortunate reload allowing dave to double attack my stack and basically wiping it out i had to sign a peace- from there on i didnt realise until too late what dave was planning so couldnt see his internet gambit.

anywhoo i have pictures over at cdz-can i still get ingame to take more or not?


Once again many thanks daveshack for hosting the game and very well played davemcw :goodjob:
 
OK in the interest of coming clean :)

I had a permanent allaince with Tubby and George since before any of us met others. We planned on splitting the world three ways. I joined teh Matriz war to make it seem i was alone without their help. I then tried to get Theoden in as a fourth member to lessen our research load on each of us...obviously that failed as dave over ran him before we could finalize the deal. Thats when i PM'd adn emailed a few of you to get teh dave attack idea started. Many turns went by and then Whomp... IIRC decided to organize teh south vs dave/grs war.

We all know how that went...well Tubby , george and I decide it was tiem to change things up and prepare to attack Sigma( who was absent) then Whomp or Mel. Around that time i made a good nonaggression deal with Robi D. And started to really play good cop/bad cop with the others in the southern alliance. Mainly so i can warn Tubby or george of an upcoming invasion

When Tubby found Robi attacking him...he abandoned his cities to me to make it appear I had taken them. We were hoping for a permanent alliance but this seemed as the next best thing. I also around this time or earlier made teh deal with mauer that we heard about at the end.

After tubby and george died...I was left alone to try and win for us. I played this game 90% of the time with an inadequate army and a civ with very little production. Largely because when I was selecting city sites i didnt have a clue. I had 2 workers for about all of the BC years. When i started this game..i hadnt ever beaten the AI on Noble or above. My goal was to simply not be the first eliminated and I never thought I would see the end of the game with the 3rd largest landwise civ.

I worked the diplo channels very hard...and it paid off to keep me in the game.

I am intersted in seeing what people think...especially Robi D since he was my next closest allie.
 
I also have a spoiler at CDZ for this game. Very early in the game I met Robi and we agreed to partner till the end game. It was understood that there were certain players that would be major threats in this game. Matrix was the first to go. We found out later that he didn't consider himself in that category. The others that had to go included grs, Kuningas, Theoden and Dave. We accomplished the goal on four of the five but as we saw Dave held off the onslaught.

Mauer and I agree that making long term peace probably didn't benefit either of us in the long run. My fear was he would grab both iron sources and I would be battling him with axes and archers. In hindsight, once I got the iron then conquest should've been the order of business but I'm glad he was on our side because he was a phenomenal ally.

After the east wiped out grs, Dave was offering generous peace terms to us southeasterners. We didn't accept because the west wanted to press on. We couldn't press the situation like those closer to Dave could. I contined to reasearch for the crew and then all heck (or peace) broke out. The west was getting pounded by Dave and they made peace. This did not make our group very happy but what really ticked us off was all the research that was done and it wasn't being shared once they made peace. This caused the elimination of the west (ex Robboo).

The destruction of resource rich Meleager destroyed me. I was receiving considerable resources from Mel and research and happiness collapsed. I made a few other blunders including researching radio for 4 turns even though Robi was giving it as our final research deal. I also didn't plan GP's very well as I found out. It seems farming is more powerful versus cottages than I ever anticipated.

Here's my spoiler thread. My password was holly btw. :D

http://civ3duelzone.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3522&whichpage=1
 
I don't know who the moderator is, but I'm sure that Dave and RM (and any others that didn't have access to it and were destroyed) would enjoy rummaging through the Southern Allies forum.

Wow, Tubby gave you those cities. Man, why couldn't I get a schmuck like that next to me. :p

I really wish I had kept a better account of what happened in the game, but it was really just a dismal attempt at mediocrity. I know that soon after meeting whomp we discovered 2 irons just on my side of the border. I PM'd him asking if he wanted to duke it out. He didn't, but he should have. He'd of taken me out right and proper. Originally, I had a deal with DaveShack of mutual protection. BC was moving pretty fast on him though, and I was gonna declare as soon as I could get my meager troops up the peninsula a bit. They didn't make it in time obviously.

That's when Whomp PM'd me about a possible war with grs. I signed up for it since I didn't want to be marked for non participation. This turned out to be the funnest part of the game for me. I think it was about this time that I started a tech alliance with Whomp as well. I've pretty much been giving him as much gold as he asked for the whole game, and in turn got free techs from him and Robi. Anyways, I spent my entire force on Heliopolis......twice. That was one tough sucka. The second time actually required a coordinated attack effort with Whomp. I ended up trading Heliopolis to BC for Loveshack, as we both preferred having an easier accessible city to defend.

Let's see...ok, then I was voted to approach DaveMcW about a peace deal since our 10 man front was faltering. I can't remember what exactly I asked for, but it was ridiculous. I just couldn't believe it when he said he would accept. As it turns out though, before we had a chance to finalize the deal the West decided to make peace with him, thus nullifying the deal. That's when I made peace as well since I was pretty much a non factor in the war. I had been whipping in all my cities to get the troops out, and as such severely handicapped myself.

At that point, there was still plenty of room to expand with grs gone, and I ended up plopping a settler down in the open, but it was across cultural borders. I had another settler headed for a sweet spot just to my west, but 2 turns before I could get there Robi plopped down Riza. I've been eyeballing Riza every since :mad:

From there, I knew I was done as every one was out producing me and much stronger than I was. So I decided I was gonna try and help Whomp win. I gave him all my GP I got and offered an unofficial DA with him. I was gonna declare on him and let him take my cities since I knew my chances were shot and his would be better, but turns out the shiney head is much more noble than that. And from there, I think you all know the rest. I was gonna build Manhatten and Nuke RM for giggles. I also had about 14 marines, and 6 arty, 3 destroyers and a battleship headed his way. Not to affect the game, but to punish him for being a goob :p No offense intended goob :D
 
dam mauer...

I wanted to nuke RM too.:) for giggles also and for Tubby since he wanted a screenshot.

Also Tubby wasnt a schmuch...if i was gogin to get attacked I would have given my cities to Tubby also...
 
Yeah, I was kidding. Thus the :p I actually had the same promise to Whomp. If someone was gonna over run me, I was gonna let him take the other cities.


EDIT: Dave, I just went in and looked at your empire. It's absolutely unreal. I feel pretty ashamed of the mess I seemed to have made of my empire after looking at that. I am in awe.
 
Just out of curiousity dave, i realised looking over some notes you didn't found your capital until turn 3? Any reason for that?
 
I thought that having the coast at my back would give me more breathing room during initial expansion. I also wanted +1 commerce from the silks. So on the first turn I moved the settler to my current capital location.

On turn 2 the server went down and I couldn't settle. :(
 
When this game started back in February I was still a Civ 4 novice. Due to graphics card problems I had only started playing it, so going into the game my expectations were low. I decide to play very defensively, make sure everything was secure, and just try to make it to the end alive.

The first goal was to be the first one to die. The word on the street was DaveMcW, grs and Matrix were the players to watch, so I prayed none of them were next to me. Part of my plan was to use the diplomacy skills I picked up from the wheeling and dealing the civ3 mtdg. I was looking to set myself up as a Switzerland, happy to make deals with everyone and staying clear of conflict. (yes I can hear you all laughing at that now)

I liked the look of my spot 3 ivory, 2 rivers empting into a lake was good enough for me to settle on the spot. Once I did I notice 2 goody hut just outside my borders, one to the east one to the west. Surely some gold and a tech were a good chance here. I sent my scout SE to look around. After a few turns my borders expanded and popped the huts, no gold, no techs, but 2 very interesting maps. They revealed Rome to my north and Russia to my west. So the scout was diverted north to meet Meleager. We both agreed we weren’t the strongest players and should get together if we found one of the big three next to us. As it was Matrix was met about 10 turns later and the plan was put into motion. Robboo joining in was a bonus and really sealed Matrix fate. Unfortunately for him he was completely unprepared for war and went out quickly becoming the first to leave the game.

That was the only war I had planned for the game, I was now focused on keeping my self out of the spotlight and try to get a solid finish, top 10 was my aim. How wars seemed to find me, I don’t know. You may laugh but I’m not an aggressive player and try to avoid wars, building peacefully. But as fate would have it I ended up with more wars under my belt then anyone else.

With my plan of diplomatic superiority in motion my 3 scouts set out exploring the great unknown. With this I got to pop 6 huts and got 2 maps, 3 lots of gold and a tech which is a pretty good return. I was also the first to meet everyone and was only beaten by a turn to alphabet by Whomp. All this helped me leap up to the top of the chart early on despite my less than impressive empire. Aside for a permanent non aggression deal (which lasted until right near the end) with Mel I developed a full trading alliance with Whomp, who in turn brought BCLG into the mix.

The DaveMcW / grs war was not what I wanted, the first I heard of the idea was from Robboo. The fact most around me wanted to do something pulled me into the conflict, as I figured not participating could lose me a lot of trading possibilities in the south and might even make me a target. I never liked the idea of the 9 man alliance, there were just to many competing interests involved for it to last or do the job properly. The fact we actually lasted long enough to finish off grs was a miracle in itself, but when it did finally collapse it imploded quite spectacularly and for all of daves paranoia of another attack, the fact was the fractures left by the alliance made it impossible to get any sort of consensus or trust between us to launch another attack. So in a strange twist the alliance that originally threatened him ended up protecting him. The fact was we were more interested in fighting each other as accusations flew fast in all directions.

At this time I was trapped by my earlier arrangements. While I had been cautious to begin with, my understanding of the game had improved with more playing time and I couldn’t take advantages I now saw in front of me because of these agreements. I never wanted a war with tubby or george for that matter but tubby’s constant breaking of past agreements had irritated me sufficiently to take action, then george decided to get in the way and the rest is history. The fact is given Tubby’s city gifting and all ment I gained the least out of it. Whomp was the big winner out of that one, getting a bunch of cities with culture borders intact. I was simply outmanoeuvred diplomatically by others.

Finally, the whole Mel conflict. While it was the only war I actually gained something from, it was also the one where my outside chance of winning evaporated. It also ended our longstanding friendliness (since turn 6). What happened was that Mel told robboo he was in his sights, robboo with whom I had a good trading relationship offered me a generous deal and just as I had been outmanoeuvred in diplomacy by other so I did to Mel. Unfortunately Mel got a bit hot headed and instead of taking his medicine decided he would come after robboo and me, me in particular. Why on earth he thought he could beat us both I don’t know that is one he needs to answer. While the troops he did kill hurt, and had enough sitting behind the lines to inflict my own pain, as did robboo. At that point Mel pretty much imploded in spectacular fashion, compounding his original error by making new ones and declaring on mauer which in turn pulled BC in as well.

In the end I don’t have too many regrets, but had I known at the start of the game what I know now I would have played it differently. But I did end up finishing 2 on points and in terms of the spacerace I think I would have beaten robboo to 4, which is much better than I had originally aimed for. If I did have my time again I would have left Matrix alone, and gone after Hatti instead early on. I also would not have gotten involved in the 9 man alliance, it brought more problems then solutions. I don’t think anything more than 3 is sustainable.

I could have gone on for a lot longer but I wanted to spare you reading a thesis, but any questions will be happily answered. If there is one piece of advice I would give to a new player its that diplomacy outside the game is just as important as the game itself, neglect it at your peril.
Great game to everyone
 
me and mel were admins but i think you can just register and post away/see without me needing to do anything.
 
Whomp said:
Matrix was the first to go. We found out later that he didn't consider himself in that category. The others that had to go included grs, Kuningas, Theoden and Dave. We accomplished the goal on four of the five but as we saw Dave held off the onslaught.
Click to expand...
I am in that category? :blush:

Anyway... My game:
I started pretty bad, as I didn't/couldn't log in during the first 30 turns or so and I hadn't thought of setting a production queue. I managed to keep up in the land grab game though, but at a cost in military power. It was almost a farmers gambit. I also tried for hinduism and then judaism right from the start and failed at both.
Then Matrix was attacked which was both good and bad for me. I'd rather have him than the Meleager with his praetorians as my neighboor, but on the other hand it opened up more land for settling and Matrix gifted me two workers as he was about to get eliminated.
Robboo turned up with an alliance offer which was just what I needed as I was beginning to fall behind in techs and military power but I had just finished settling where I wanted and with a bit of development I would have several powerhouse cities. As I was getting into the alliance however, Dave declared war. It took me by surprise as I thought RegentMan would have put up more of a fight, and because Dave used the double move tactic/exploit. Even worse was the fact that I was about 3-4 turns from hooking up copper and iron. If Dave had just attacked 10 turns later I could've had spears. :(
I still managed to get somwhow into the robboo alliance though (I still hadn't met george who was in the alliance and met him as the last), and he made a phony war with Dave to aid me. As I was reduced to two cities robboo suggested that I made offered Dave to become his vassal, but he would only let me retreat to my small city. I refused off course, as I held my capital too dear. I was reduced to just the capital and Tubby supported with some iron so Dave was fought back for a good while. I sent a brave settler off to found a refugee city and soon after the capital was overrun by Dave. I stayed at war with Dave to please the robboo alliance so they would keep gifting me techs. And by now my only goal was to try to prevent Dave from winning and I figured he would suffer from WW and and cultural problems in my former lands. Eventually peace was signed and my goal was just to try to survive as long as possible.
Much later while I had been away for a week Dave took the opportunity to attack but I got back in time to fight him off, and he made peace under unfavourable terms (for him) as I guess he figured the risk/reward ratio was too bad. Then Meleager made an attempt, but wasn't able to take the city before he had planes to bombard safely from a distance. Even then I had a refugee settler ready to settle, but I didn't get to found a city because I couldn't log in on that critical day. My plan was to offer robboo my gold surplus in exchange for not killing off my city (it was near his territory). But I was eliminated unfortunately. It actually surprised me how long I could last as a city state. :)

And about the 'who gave me help in the later game' issues:
Robboo, tubby, and george gifted me techs as part of the alliance.
Tubby gave iron.
Mauer gave me techs on the condition that I wouldn't tell anyone ;), and we also traded techs once.
 
Yeah, I fessed up to that when the initial accusations started flying. I don't remember giving you anything of consequence, just didn't want it to look bad.

EDIT: So Dave never gave you units while you where fighting Mel in that last stand? I was almost certain he was.
 
Sweet. I only found out today that this game has ended. Congratulations, DaveMcW!! :) I don't have much to review myself. :rolleyes: I just failed to make friends, or neglected the importance of at least keeping contact with your neighbours.

Is there any way to see the scores of the other players? I can only see DaveMcW's score...
 
Mauer said:
EDIT: So Dave never gave you units while you where fighting Mel in that last stand? I was almost certain he was.
Click to expand...
Nope, he didn't...

And the techs you gifted me had no impact at all, since tubby was in a tech gifting frenzy at the time. :) I even got up to flight in the end, and was about to build anti-aircraft units.
 
Matrix said:
Sweet. I only found out today that this game has ended. Congratulations, DaveMcW!! :) I don't have much to review myself. :rolleyes: I just failed to make friends, or neglected the importance of at least keeping contact with your neighbours.

Is there any way to see the scores of the other players? I can only see DaveMcW's score...
Click to expand...
Here's the civstats page for the game: http://www.civstats.com/viewgame.php?gameid=51
 
Matrix said:
Sweet. I only found out today that this game has ended. Congratulations, DaveMcW!! :) I don't have much to review myself. :rolleyes: I just failed to make friends, or neglected the importance of at least keeping contact with your neighbours.

Is there any way to see the scores of the other players? I can only see DaveMcW's score...
Click to expand...


robi d has a score list over at cdz in his MP list, theres one at civstats also-its still up there :)
 
Mauer said:
Robi, is it true that you are Whomps secret love child? What? You said any questions will be happily answered :D


EDIT: Here's the link to the Southern Alliance's forum. http://z7.invisionfree.com/The_Southern_Allies/index.php?act=idx
I can't remember who the admin was, but if you register they should get you set up to see the behind the scenes stuff.
Click to expand...

I think the large difference in the amount of hair we have answers your question
 
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